Praying for Obama's Defeat

D_Thoraxis_Biggulp

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Most of the military personnel I know (of), whether directly or through friends, don't like the idea of getting sent over there repeatedly for a continuous conflict with no end in sight. If anything, they think the idea of putting an end to it quickly, with how deeply they've been settled in there, is idealistic. Not that they're opposed to it, just they feel it's unrealistic.
 
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deleted213967

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However, I have said elsewhere that the only thing about the prospect of an Obama Presidency that I have absolutely no ambivalence about, is the meliorative effect it would have in enhancing the image of the USA among certain parts of the global populace (I'm trying hard to think of something without a pejorative connotation, trying to avoid something such as "third world"), especially among the Muslim and African peoples

His constant refrain of an immediate pullout, regardless of the consequences, is just troubling in so many aspects

Please, they prefer to be called "Less Advanced Nations".
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

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His constant refrain of an immediate pullout, regardless of the consequences, is just troubling in so many aspects

Yeah, they must come out, but one hopes slowly. As Colin Powell, speaking to the president, said, "You are going to be the proud owner of 25 million people. You will own all their hopes, aspirations, and problems. You'll own it all." (Powell's famous Pottery Barn rule: You break it, you own it.)

try "underdeveloped nations" instead of "third world" --- it sounds more respectful

Better yet, "developing nations."

Don't worry folks, the troops will be in Iraq for a long time even if Obama is elected. There's too much at stake in Iraq. He just has to take his position before the election to try to get elected.

I imagine this is what's happening ... hope so.

Iraq needs to repay all the trillions of dollars the U.S. has spent and that money needs to go to releasing our dependency on foreign oil.

Trillions? Plural? Already? On Iraq alone?
 

unabear09

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The sad part is that much of what you had written was intelligent and bordering on informed. Unfortunately you blew it when you decided to use the screw ball terminology and then say they are being self rightous and blowing everyone up. Iraq is fortunate enough to have the U.S. and others blowing us up in even greater numbers.


I think I might have accidently mis-stated what I said. I hope you did not interpret what I was saying about screwballs. Please don't think that I was talking about all of Kurds, Shiites, or Sunnis. I was only referring to those who are constantly attacking each other, and bringing death and destruction to all of the innocent citizens of Iraq, as well as the soldiers from the US. I was not making a generalized statement about all Iraqis, so please do forgive me.
 

TinyPrincess

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this article is about the opinion of Iraqi leaders, not Iraqi citizens. I doubt the citizens care one way or another who wins our election - they just want our troops to leave.

Exactly the article is based on 4 leaders afraid of losing their bribes - not the almost 30.000.000 citizens.

I once had posted on lpsg that I was a democrat voting for MCcain.Well Nolonger.Im going to be voting for Obama in nov.I cant support MCcain as a gay man I just cant.Anyways that all I have,lol.

Great Jason - at the speed McCain is moving to the religious right, I can't see how anyone can vote for him. He has surely changed a lot in 8 years - no more straight talk left in him.
 

D_Marazion Analdouche

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Great Jason - at the speed McCain is moving to the religious right, I can't see how anyone can vote for him. He has surely changed a lot in 8 years - no more straight talk left in him.

Well they do say you get closer to God as you get closer to the grave.

I still can't get over that these are the "two best" options as far as selecting a leader for this country. It's kind of sad.
 

TinyPrincess

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Well they do say you get closer to God as you get closer to the grave.

Let's hope McCain makes it to election day - I think he suddenly looks and sounds very old and tired.

I still can't get over that these are the "two best" options as far as selecting a leader for this country. It's kind of sad.

I know what you mean... ;-)
 

Phil Ayesho

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Iraq is a mess because Bush and his ilk were too stupid, lazy, arrogant and foolish to read up on the culture and find out that the whole nation is nothing but Mafiosi style family clans and sects who operate on the basis of fear, vendetta and murder.


Saddam ruled there because he was even MORE ruthless than the clan warlords.


Taking the input of Iraqi's...particularly ensconced, bribed, and ineffectual Iraqis... about who would make a better US president... is like asking a FOX news anchor which channel has the best news coverage...


The one that's paying his freight... that's who.


Republicans have had 11 year's majority in Congress... and a 7 year lock on power....

And the only people who have benefited are the white collar criminals like Ken Lay, Gonzales, Cheney, the board of Halliburton, Blackwater....and every one with their fingers in oil....


Given that the republican platform is EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF.... this is exactly what any thinking person could have predicted would occur.

America is going south fast... and as long as the folks in power think that its a free for all festival of getting yours and fuck everyone else.... well...it will KEEP going south...

They worship at the altar of the "invisible hand of the market"... which is just another way of saying "survival of the fittest"..... but they forget that evolutionary processes are not ALWAYS 'self correcting"...

Animals routinely compete their way into extinction.


Nations do, too.


Change the way this country runs.... REINSTATE the REGULATION of commerce that resulted in the economic boom of the latter 20th century...

Or.... watch with moot horror as the whole nation unravels like a cheap sweater.
 

Phil Ayesho

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PS- the criminals who stole all the money Bush could yank out of your children's pockets will not care that the US has crumbled... they will be too busy entertaining on their Yachts off the Riviera.
 

D_Marazion Analdouche

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Let's hope McCain makes it to election day - I think he suddenly looks and sounds very old and tired.



I know what you mean... ;-)

I respect both of them, but not as canidates lol. McCain is out of touch and Obama at the end of the day has no idea what he's doing. (hold breath waiting for the "he's better than the bush clown in office" post). Not from you Princess, I can feel it in the Force that it's coming.

EDIT, seems I was right and was posted as I was typing this.:haha: I told you I felt it in the Force.


We need someone that will put a REAL plan to get out of Iraq and finish up Afghanistan like we should have. Not just saying we need to do it, but how exactly.

We need smaller government and REAL programs that will get people off of welfare etc and into the workforce. Meaning education, training, daycare tax breaks for single moms/dads.

Social issues shouldn't even be discussed as issues. As long as your not committing crimes, who cares what you do in your home (gay marriage, abortion if you're over 18), it's just rediculous that these are even issues.

I do believe that businesses should get the bullk of the tax breaks. However they need to be earned, not just handed out blindly. That means, companies that retain jobs here in the US. That provide tuition reimbursment and provide more than a rediculous 3% raise per year to their workers, offers daycares onsight etc. These are the companies that deserve tax breaks and would carry a lot more weight then your average family getting a few extra hundred dollars in tax relief.

It's really amazing how complicated it is and how uncomplicated it really should be.
 
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TinyPrincess

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is like asking a FOX news anchor which channel has the best news coverage...

ROFL LMAO!!! That must be the quote of the day :biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:

Just having the two words so close together Fox and News - it simply doesn't make any sense.

Animals routinely compete their way into extinction.

Nations do, too.

The US is just busier getting there than most countries...

I respect both of them, but not as canidates lol. McCain is out of touch and Obama at the end of the day has no idea what he's doing. (hold breath waiting for the "he's better than the bush clown in office" post). Not from you Princess, I can feel it in the Force that it's coming.

EDIT, seems I was right and was posted as I was typing this.:haha: I told you I felt it in the Force.

LOL

May the force be with you, Wartrac
 
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deleted15807

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We need smaller government and REAL programs that will get people off of welfare etc and into the workforce. Meaning education, training, daycare tax breaks for single moms/dads.

I do believe that businesses should get the bullk of the tax breaks. However they need to be earned, not just handed out blindly. That means, companies that retain jobs here in the US. That provide tuition reimbursment and provide more than a rediculous 3% raise per year to their workers, offers daycares onsight etc. These are the companies that deserve tax breaks and would carry a lot more weight then your average family getting a few extra hundred dollars in tax relief.

It's really amazing how complicated it is and how uncomplicated it really should be.

Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh.....The free market and unfettered business comes to save the world!!
Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh.....Save the rich from too many taxes let's SAVE the rich from excessive taxes....Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh!!!
Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh.....Get out the way government and let business SAVE THE WORLD!! Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh!!!
Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh....Let's SHRINK government so business can grow and control the country.....Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh!!!

Get the POM POMs out!! We need to get this message OUT!!!



 
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Northland

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Iraq is a mess because Bush and his ilk were too stupid, lazy, arrogant and foolish to read up on the culture and find out that the whole nation is nothing but Mafiosi style family clans and sects who operate on the basis of fear, vendetta and murder.


Saddam ruled there because he was even MORE ruthless than the clan warlords.

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah.

.
Iraq is more of a mess because of many things. George W. Bush being but one of many factors. There would have been no invasion or entry into Iraq if it were not for the mistakes of the past. The British, The Ottomans, The U.S. under several adminitstrations. Let me take that last one-The U.S.

You are aware (hopefully) that it was the lackluster, lackballs, now whiner, President James Carter who pushed Saddam Hussein into many of the misdeeds which he carried out, are you not?

Back in about 1979, Saddam Hussein was second in command and back in Iraq. He had fled a number of years earlier after a botched assassination attempt. In July of that year (1979), President Al-Bakr resigned and Hussein took over. A few days later there were several dead Iraqis, mostly Ba'th party rivals (and remember Hussein was a Ba'th). Already, it was clear that he was still as cruel and murder minded as he had always been.

Fast forward to 1980 when Hussein got to be the first ever Iraqi leader to have a sit-down with Saudi Arabia leader Prince Fahd. (note: this was also the first time an Iraqi met so closely with the Saudis)

The purpose of the meeting? Carter was petrified. You see, Carter was in the midst of one hell of a botched Presidency and really wanted a second term. Sadly, there was a hostage crisis going on with Iran which was really screwing with his plans (not to mention the rest of his bungled Presidency). Carter listened to his pal Zbigniew 'the zipper' Brzezinski and started to push for an invasion of Iran by Iraq. Yup. Good ol' Iraq would rescue Carter and his peanuts. In point of fact, Carter requested the help of all the Arab states, and they gladly joined in. Iran was seen as a problem.

In September (the 22nd to be precise), 12 Iraqi Army divisions entered Iran, while at the same time fighter jets began bombing the crap out of Iran. Within a short time, Iraq had captured-and occupied-several key cities, including,Khoramshahr, Susangerd, Bostan, Mehran, Dehloran, Hoveizieh, Naft Shahr, Qasr Shirin, Sumar and Musian. They then targeted Abadan, Ahwaz, Dezful, Shushtar, Andimeshk, Isalmabad-e-qarb and Gilan-e-qarb with hundreds of surface-to-surface missiles.

After that,they began targeting oil tankers servicing Iranian ports, Iranian Oil platforms, and Iranian Islands in the Persian Gulf - with Exocet missiles and Super Etendard Aircraft supplied by France. Iraq's goal was to completely shut down Iran's oil exports, and grab land.

Iran was under an arms embarg at the time thanks to Carter, so there was little they could do to fight back. They had no access to more weapons. Besides which, Carter was funneling finance and arms into Iraq (through places like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan and elsewhere since the U.S. did not wish to seem too much in league or in like with Hussein).

So, at the end of the day, the mess as it stands now, goes back to Carter. Hussein rose to power and then was armed and financed by the U.S. (and others) who blindly looked in other directions. It was not until Saddam Hussein started balking and talking back at the mighty U.S. that it was decided he needed to be dealt with.

The comedy of comedy contiued in recent years as we (U.S. citizens of Iraqi heritage, and U.S. residents of Iraqi heritage, as well as those in Iraq and elsewhere in the world) watched the buffoon Carter shake his finger at George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush as the bad guys. No Mr.Carter, was the bad guy in this. If it had not been for him, Hussein would perhaps have been overthrown-he most certainly would not have been executed by the U.S.

So Phil, what it comes down to for the Iraqis, is that we in general see this entire 'mess' as you so mildly call it, as being the creation of Mr.Carter. George Bush was just another stick figure in it all.


(and Saddam ruled for so long because it was of beneficial merit to the U.S.)
 

D_Marazion Analdouche

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Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh.....The free market and unfettered business comes to save the world!!
Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh.....Save the rich from yes let's SAVE the rich from excessive taxes....Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh
Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh.....Get out the way government and let business SAVE THE WORLD!! Rahhh Rahhh Rahhh

Wow talk about looking for something that isn't there. I never once said "save" the rich. Is someone that owns even a small 25 person company always going to be in the top 1%? Can you look outside the box at all?

If you took the time to read and digest what I wrote I was saying ONLY give tax breaks to the companies that earn them. By giving back to it's employers. So intead of being obnoxious would you care to answer this?

What would benefit someone more? Company paid education, daycare credits, higher than 3% annual raises. Or maybe getting an extra grand at best in their pocket from a tax break. And let's keep in mind it would be even less for people that earn below certain levels since they don't pay as much in taxes.

I don't know about you but if someone is making 6 bucks an hour, having their education paid for is worth a lot more than a hundred bucks a month, not to mention costs of daycare and everything else I mentioned.

But I'll just let you keep making rediculous statements instead of offering up another solution that would help people long term get into better paying jobs and/or make life easier.

You may want to read my post again. I'll bold it for you. Tax breaks to companies that reinvest back into their employees get the tax breaks, not the ones sending jobs off shore or using all the profits to pay bonuses and buy country club memberships for their executives.

Not sure how that comes off as save the rich lol, but whatever. :rolleyes: Someone has a lot of angst.
 
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deleted15807

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Wow talk about looking for something that isn't there. I never once said "save" the rich. Is someone that owns even a small 25 person company always going to be in the top 1%? Can you look outside the box at all?

If you took the time to read and digest what I wrote I was saying ONLY give tax breaks to the companies that earn them. By giving back to it's employers. So intead of being obnoxious would you care to answer this?

What would benefit someone more? Company paid education, daycare credits, higher than 3% annual raises. Or maybe getting an extra grand at best in their pocket from a tax break. And let's keep in mind it would be even less for people that earn below certain levels since they don't pay as much in taxes.

I don't know about you but if someone is making 6 bucks an hour, having their education paid for is worth a lot more than a hundred bucks a month, not to mention costs of daycare and everything else I mentioned.

But I'll just let you keep making rediculous statements instead of offering up another solution that would help people long term get into better paying jobs and/or make life easier.

You may want to read my post again. I'll bold it for you. Tax breaks to companies that reinvest back into their employees get the tax breaks, not the ones sending jobs off shore or using all the profits to pay bonuses and buy country club memberships for their executives.

Not sure how that comes off as save the rich lol, but whatever. :rolleyes: Someone has a lot of angst.

Your solutions don't work. Tax breaks are nothing but Republican duct tape for every issue you can think of. They just make giant holes in the budget. The fact that they don't work has not stopped the propaganda. Hello Big Oil tax breaks!!
 
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D_Marazion Analdouche

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Your solutions don't work. Tax breaks are nothing but Republican duct tape for every issue you can think of. They just make giant holes in the budget. The fact that they don't work has not stopped the propaganda. Hello Big Oil tax breaks!!

The problem is there was nothing forcing companies do use those dollars in a way to benefit something other than themselves. Record profits were stuck into the pockets of the executives and ignored the people that do the work.

Setting something up that only allows certain levels of tax breaks based on a certain criteria can work and would benefit the individual. Setting up government programs won't. But again, you're just complaining, I asked you for another solution, do you have one?
 
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deleted15807

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The problem is there was nothing forcing companies do use those dollars in a way to benefit something other than themselves. Record profits were stuck into the pockets of the executives and ignored the people that do the work.

Setting something up that only allows certain levels of tax breaks based on a certain criteria can work and would benefit the individual. Setting up government programs won't. But again, you're just complaining, I asked you for another solution, do you have one?


Yes I'm JUST complaining. I didn't realize that's all I was doing. And not offering solid fresh solutions as you are. I'm going to have to retool. Thanks Wartrac.