President Obama's address to the nation

[dreamer20]

OReilly:How would you solve the problem of the leak?

Palin:The Dutch are known for dykes...

ost::lmao:

Errrrrrrrr - a bit wrong there.

Who knew, she was actually talking sense with that part -skimming ships, berms etc.

Obama Blocked Clean Up of BP Oil Spill by Friendly Countries; International Assistance Blocked by Regulations Obama Had The Authority To Waive

With all that talk of stools, it sounded like sh*t.

Palin's <nabbed from the internet> criticism, that many ships are needed to skim oil from the disaster, is valid. But her comments were made to deflect from and avoid the question put to her ,which was "How would she solve the problem of the leak" - a question which had her completely stumped. The "oil volcano" is the primary problem which must be addressed, as the only way to stop the horrendous environmental damage it is causing is by capping its flow.


I found her comments hypocritical as they came from the same mouth of 2008's "Country First", pro-oil company, pro- fewer government regulations, pro- offshore and ANWAR oil drilling, "Drill Baby Drill" Sarah Palin. Her display of a now changed mindset proved Obama was correct in saying "In the same way that our view of our vulnerabilities and our foreign policy was shaped profoundly by 9/11, I think this disaster is going to shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come".

 

[B_crackoff]

Palin's <nabbed from the internet> criticism, that many ships are needed to skim oil from the disaster, is valid. But her comments were made to deflect from and avoid the question put to her ,which was "How would she solve the problem of the leak" - a question which had her completely stumped. . ".

Trying to plug it with her would be a good start:biggrin1:

 

[Trinity]

Palin's <nabbed from the internet> criticism, that many ships are needed to skim oil from the disaster, is valid. But her comments were made to deflect from and avoid the question put to her ,which was "How would she solve the problem of the leak" - a question which had her completely stumped. The "oil volcano" is the primary problem which must be addressed, as the only way to stop the horrendous environmental damage it is causing is by capping its flow.


I found her comments hypocritical as they came from the same mouth of 2008's "Country First", pro-oil company, pro- fewer government regulations, pro- offshore and ANWAR oil drilling, "Drill Baby Drill" Sarah Palin. Her display of a now changed mindset proved Obama was correct in saying "In the same way that our view of our vulnerabilities and our foreign policy was shaped profoundly by 9/11, I think this disaster is going to shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come".

The Dutch offered their expertise.

The Netherlands has experience with controlling water: 2,000 miles of dykes preventing the sea from flooding the country's nether regions have taught the Dutch a thing or two about hydroisolation and spillover control. Unfortunately, as the last 40 days or so demonstrate so amply, neither the US nor the UK have the faintest clue how to stop the GoM oil spill which is now entering into the realm of the surreal. Which is why it may be time to learn from those who do know something about the matter. Zero Hedge has received the following proposal from Van Den Noort Innovations BV, which asserts it can get the GoM oil spill under control within days, and it doesn't even involve nuking the continental shelf.

Zerohedge.com

Stop the BP Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico:

 

[798686]

I agree - it may have been a good idea (and obvious) to contact anyone and everyone with experience, immediately after the spill. It's easy to say now I know - but even contacting the other oil companies if they have any experience of clean-ups...it would be in their interests to limit the amount of bad-will towards the oil industry.

Not sure how much help the UK offered other than dispersants? I heard Obama is bringing troops in to help wit hthe clean-up, which seems like a fairly good idea? BP's dispersal, booms and (unsuccessful) capping haven't been brilliant so far.

What happened when the Dutch offered assistance, btw?

Pleasureboy - prolly true. I think EuroV emissions standards are pretty strict now - but not (as far as I'm aware) as strict as say California. A lot of buildings in major European cities have been grubby looking for years, lol. But - it's only recently that many engine emissions here have fallen to between 120-140g of CO2/km. Still got a way to go prolly, altho some newer engines are getting below 100g/km and many new vehicles are fitted with stop-start technology.

 

[midlifebear]

It would be nice if this enormous ecological catastrophe brought to the southern US shores by the 4th largest corporation in the world could be a watershed moment that tipped the production in the USA to a headlong Renaissance of green renewable energy production and home-grown transportation industry.. But I'm not that optimistic.

The hoops I had to jump through just to install wind and solar power generation on my Nevada ranch 14 years ago was enough to convince me that folks doing the right thing was and is not in the best interest of the power companies. Forget all of the tons of paperwork to get permission to generate my own electricity. Now that the ranch is completely energy independent I'm bound by Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, and California laws to still be connected to the grid. This would be fine if the excess energy the ranch produces (especially from two wind generators) and trickles onto the grid was compensated by the power companies. In theory it is, but not in moolah. Wells Rural Electric Company (WREC -- and it is one) issues my LLC quarterly credits -- no real money. We have no need for the credits. We're drowning in them. And WREC will not accept its own credits towards off setting their charge for:
1. $16 as a membership fee just to be a member of the cooperative,
2. $80 a month levied against the ranch in case we need one or more of their linemen to "fix" anything in case of power outage,
3. $100 annual charge for line inspection from their main grid to the ranch (and I'm the person who hired and paid electrical contractors to bring in 25 miles of power poles and lines at a cost of $22,000 a mile! -- which WREC immediately took over and notified me that once installed and on-line I or my LLC nor longer "owned" any of the 25 miles of power lines/poles/transformers, etc.
4. The $1,500 a year I have to pony up as "insurance" against the chance my independent power generation may cause a power surge (highly unlikely, in fact impossible) knocking out the main grid.

None of these "extras" are off set by the power credits WREC is so kind to bestow me every three months as my solar panels and wind turbines trickle extra power onto their grid. Oh, and they charge me for reading the meter that monitors how much power they receive.

So, I think most on this thread hoping that Obama's charge to go green and clean ASAP has a few stumbling blocks to overcome -- at least in the Western States.

My new neighbor, T. Boone Pickens, has suspended putting in his huge wind mill installation north of me next to the Winecup/Gamble ranch not because the technology isn't mature enough, or the amount of electricity produced would be profitable, or even prairie fairies such as myself might want to hold up any of his windmills until 100 years of studies have been done to assess the impact on seasonal bird migration. None of those items are at issue. What is at issue is that the government agency that is in charge (no pun intended) of keeping 'Mericuh electrified has no long-range plans (or funds) to provide the infrastructure (towers and high tension lines) to hook T. Boone or any other entrepreneurs onto the grid and expand substations to handle the increased production of electricity. But you never hear about that side of the story.

As for the end of Obama's Oval Office chat, I was rather embarrassed that he pulled out the "prayer" card as the ultimate solution to keep hope alive among the citizenry. Still, he hasn't started any new wars. As long as he doesn't start another war he'll remain a superior Head of State compared to the chimp who preceded him. Even Nixon didn't pull out of Viet Nam until the beginning of his second term.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^I didn't have to do squat when I got my solar water heater... Just buy it, install it, claim the tax break on my return, and never have to pay for hot water ever again!

What 'one' thing has the Gov. nationalize that is actually working and not going broke?

In the US, the govt generally gets to operate the things that a profit can't be made from at the price they're consumed at. Which is why when such operations are transferred to private businesses by govts trying to 'save money', the businesses can't make a profit either, unless the cost of those things for consumers is allowed to rise dramatically.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

What happened when the Dutch offered assistance, btw?

In scientific terms, their solution was essentially the same as plans BP was already operating on from other engineering sources, which failed for the same reason the Dutch plan would have failed; Hydrates form at this sort of depth as the oil inevitably mixes with water, and block the flow... and there is no way to cut off the broken riser with robots and form a good seal with a new riser to prevent the oil and water from mixing before rising up the pipe to the surface. Remember, this oil and gas is coming out at 2300-2600psi.


So, when people with a personal and/or ideological agenda post stuff on the internet and pretend they know what they are talking about, and act like BP or the US govt ignored ideas that had a better chance of stopping the leak than the options that were tried, you can rest assured that they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[midlifebear]

^ Amen

 

[cruztbone]

Pleasureboy, it does appear that Obama's balls are big enough, not that YOU are the best judge. BP oil agreed to put 20 Billlion in escrow , to be administered by Kenneth Fineman, the same man who administered the funds to the victims of 9-11. All of this was a MAJOR capitulation by BP, with their attorneys standing beside them.


NOW, WHAT WERE YOU SAYING ABOUT LACKING BIG BALLS?

And as far as Palin is concerned, we have already accepted aid from Canada, some two weeks ago. She is uniformed and out of the loop , as usual. Aid from the Netherlands will help, but that alone is not much of a criticism of the president.

I reiterate: OBAMA IS THE PERSON WE NEED IN CHARGE OF A CRISIS OF THIS MAGNITUDE. WE DONT NEED A HUCKABY, A ROMNEY , A PALIN, A GINGRICH OR A PAWLENTY. THEY ARE ALL CORRUPT CORPORATISTS. TO HELL WITH THEM AND THEIR USELESS PARTY!!!!

 

[Jason]

This looks like a tidy result. $20bn set aside is something the markets can understand. Additionally there is a link between the volume of oil spilt and the level of fines - and while there are unknowns around the quantity of oil and the duration of the leak, this is something that markets can estimate. It will take a few days to see that the markets really are steadying, but this might well mark a bottoming out of the share price. A key calculation will be how long BP can survive paying say $4000 a barrel for spilt oil. I'm guessing a long time. All caveats, but this is probably good news.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^Anything that finally begins to give investors the clarity they need is good for BP. Like I've been saying for a while, Obama's rhetoric hasn't been the problem for BP, it has been their own failure to provide answers to their investors that has been the problem.

 

[Trinity]

In scientific terms, their solution was essentially the same as plans BP was already operating on from other engineering sources, which failed for the same reason the Dutch plan would have failed; Hydrates form at this sort of depth as the oil inevitably mixes with water, and block the flow... and there is no way to cut off the broken riser with robots and form a good seal with a new riser to prevent the oil and water from mixing before rising up the pipe to the surface. Remember, this oil and gas is coming out at 2300-2600psi.


So, when people with a personal and/or ideological agenda post stuff on the internet and pretend they know what they are talking about, and act like BP or the US govt ignored ideas that had a better chance of stopping the leak than the options that were tried, you can rest assured that they don't know what they are talking about.

Wrong. You don't know what you are talking about.

You didn't even read the Dutch plan and assumed it was the same as BP's failure. What's most embarrassing for you is that you then tried a snide remark.

F. Before sinking the ships compartment must be filled with warm water in order to prevent methane hydrate crystallization.

Van den Noort Innovations BV, The Netherlands. Research and development civil engineering.

 

[dandelion]

Dare one speculate whether the US might end up making a nice profit on spilt oil?

 

[798686]

In scientific terms, their solution was essentially the same as plans BP was already operating on from other engineering sources, which failed for the same reason the Dutch plan would have failed; Hydrates form at this sort of depth as the oil inevitably mixes with water, and block the flow... and there is no way to cut off the broken riser with robots and form a good seal with a new riser to prevent the oil and water from mixing before rising up the pipe to the surface. Remember, this oil and gas is coming out at 2300-2600psi.


So, when people with a personal and/or ideological agenda post stuff on the internet and pretend they know what they are talking about, and act like BP or the US govt ignored ideas that had a better chance of stopping the leak than the options that were tried, you can rest assured that they don't know what they are talking about.

Thanks.

 

[Bbucko]

Dare one speculate whether the US might end up making a nice profit on spilt oil?

Speculate? Sure...

Since the government is not set up as a profit-generating enterprise, the public sector of the US will not see one.

Since the livelihoods of millions of Americans will ultimately be affected by the spill (especially if, as predicted, it rounds the southern tip of the Florida peninsula and hits the Gulf Stream), I cannot fathom the amount of reparations that would be required to make everything "whole" again; frankly I wouldn't even know where to begin to put a dollar figure to it. But I'm sure someone will.

Ultimately, there will be profiteers. Such crises always bring them out of the woodwork. Some will undoubtedly be American, but given the globalized nature of our economy, there'll be plenty of other nationalities involved in the clean-up and other related business.

I'm sure that some people will find ways of gaining from this mess, but on balance I truly believe that there'll be more losers. That's capitalism: last time I checked the economy of the UK is capitalistic as well.

 

[midlifebear]

Wrong. You don't know what you are talking about.

You didn't even read the Dutch plan and assumed it was the same as BP's failure. What's most embarrassing for you is that you then tried a snide remark.



Van den Noort Innovations BV, The Netherlands. Research and development civil engineering.

Hint, hint your beauty pageant candidate, Sarah Palin, also has not read the links you were kind enough to provide. I, however, did read them. Not that impressed with your tits for tat argument. Maybe Orly Taits (sp?) will spew something on the oil spill with which you can then provide us more links. [image of face with scathing eyes here]

 

[Trinity]

What happened when the Dutch offered assistance, btw?

Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help. It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands. According to the Houston Chronicle though, Obama and BP basically said “thanks, but no thanks.” Hows things working out 51 days later?

Big Government

The Obama Administration turned down the Dutch skimmers 3 days after the explosion.

TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA (BNO NEWS) – Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum on Friday sent a letter to President Barack Obama, asking for a limited waiver on the Jones Act to hasten the oil spill response and the cleanup efforts.

The Jones Act is impeding that the most advanced skimmers and other vessels in the world cannot be used in the oils spill recovery efforts as the law indicated that the transportation of between U.S. points is reserved for American built, owned, and documented vessels.

Headliner Watch

Today, Obama's point man is begging for those skimmers and feigning ignorance of the truth that Obama's entire operation's incompetence needlessly allowed barrels and barrels of oil to kill wildlife and destroy the gulf.

Equipment does not fall under the Jones Act. We need both. The most rare commodity we have right now, we've got pretty much up to speed on boom, but skimmers are our critical mass right now. We need to put those wherever we can get them. And we want to get them from where ever they are available. And to the extent that foreign equipment and skimmers are available, and can be use out there, we have accepted foreign offers of assistance, BP is buying skimming equipment and skimmers from overseas in areas that they normally operate, Mexico, Norway where they have oil operations is where we're getting it from mostly. So, to date nobody has come for a Jones Act waiver. We have expedited procedures to go with customs and border protection which would grant it, I'm willing to do that. It not only relates to skimming equipment but potentially it could relate to the amount of dredges that are available for some of the barrier island construction. But to date, no Jones Act waivers have been requested."

Thad Allen, June 17, 2010

 

[Trinity]

Hint, hint your beauty pageant candidate, Sarah Palin, also has not read the links you were kind enough to provide.

Obama flopped in his oval office speech and his incompetence was on display. Obama's administration is late on the very points Sarah Palin stated with leadership and clarity.

 

[798686]

Thanks for the links Trinity.

It seems like everyone's fouled up - BP, Congress, etc. Apparently (from one of Maxcok's links?) all the big oil companies have deficient clean-up contingency plans. They all feature a hotline to a now deceased oil expert. Eeek. Perhaps huge lessons need to be learned about how to handle it in future? It's odd tho that lessons weren't learned from Exxon Valdez, Solway Firth, Torrey Canyon and the one off France in 2002. :/

 

[Trinity]

Thanks for the links Trinity.

Sure. :smile:

It seems like everyone's fouled up - BP, Congress, etc.

The Bush Administration and the Obama Administration need to be listed not assumed in etc. The disaster occurred on Obama's watch literally. Obama's MMS department was supposed to have oversight and failed.

Obama sheltered BP's Deepwater Horizon rig from regulatory requirement

Apparently (from one of Maxcok's links?) all the big oil companies have deficient clean-up contingency plans. They all feature a hotline to a now deceased oil expert. Eeek. Perhaps huge lessons need to be learned about how to handle it in future? It's odd tho that lessons weren't learned from Exxon Valdez, Solway Firth, Torrey Canyon and the one off France in 2002. :/

True. BP has so many citations for safety violations it boggles the mind that the Obama Administration failed to shut them down on their watch since Bush is no longer President.

BP Cited for Worst OSHA Safety Violations Among U.S. Refiners