Presidential Hopefuls & LGBT Issues

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_VinylBoy, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    We all know that the economy & job creation is the number one issue facing most Americans. But it's definitely not the only issue...

    A very interesting article was released by the Dallas Voice, which provides a chart featuring Obama, the GOP presidential hopefuls and where they stand on key LGBT issues in our country. Suffice to say, there isn't a lot of surprises on this chart (except for who is on the top of the list), but it's a good indicator of who has the LGBT community and their civil rights in mind more than the others.

    As for Rick Perry? He charted in last place along with Bachmann, Gingrich, Santorum & McCotter. Romney doesn't do much better, which shows just how far right the GOP is going these days.

    Ron Paul is somewhat respectable in 4th place.

    Check the results here - CHART: Rick Perry 1 of 5 presidential candidates who scores a zero on LGBT issues

    How will this and other civil rights issues play out this electoral season?
     
  2. lurker37160

    lurker37160 Member

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    LGBT issues are not why someone one should vote or should not vote for any candidate. It's such a small piece of the puzzle. Same thing with abortion.


     
  3. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    What someone decides to focus on when voting is entirely up to them. For me, civil rights issues are not "small pieces" of the puzzle... it's a major tell as to how politicians are going to focus on other issues. There isn't a single politician running for office right now that isn't at least trying to blame someone (or some group) for the problems of this nation. If they're willing to repeatedly make certain folks the targets of their angst, that's a big indicator of who is most likely to get shafted when they focus on the big issues such as the economy and job creation. Is there any surprise that the politicians who are pro-life don't seem to care if women get paid less than men for the same work? That's why they vote against bills that push for wage equality. Is there any shock that the politicians who don't support LGBT issues are the ones who will also push to repeal legislation that makes it illegal to discriminate against someone for a job based on sexual orientation?

    This thread may not be directly about the economy or job creation, but don't downplay its significance. If you're not up to focus on this, please move on and make your own thread.
     
  4. atlclgurl

    atlclgurl Member

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    Most pols blow with the wind when it comes to the LBGT communities and their voting power.

    Obama courted the gay vote and then promptly ignored LGBT issues for the first couple years of his presidency, which caused much consernation and the boycotting of a DNC fundraiser. Here's link that discusses this: Outraged By Obama Legal Brief, Gay Democratic Donors Boycotting DNC Bash - Political Punch

    While I give the Obama administration props for the ending of DADT, I don't give them ALL the credit as they jumped on the bandwagon only when it was clear that the wagon was leaving, either with or without them on it.

    It is true the Obama could not abolish DADT without approval of the legislative branch he could have, and should have, issued and executive order stopping all of the "You're gay... get the hell out, right now!" crap. But, alas he did not. He's also on record as saying that his views on gay marraige are "evolving". Oh, so I guess that means he doesn't favor gay marriage but might be talking into supporting it (if politically expedient).

    If it sounds like I'm beating up on Obama, I'm not really, just pointing out that while he is certainly better than any of the Repubs, he's not really a dedicated friend to the LGBT community, he's more of a fair weather friend.

    Of course, the Repubs are no friends at all...
     
  5. dazedandconfused

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    Vinyl boy, you are pushing for equal pay, but what constitutional basis are you with that? The government is one thing, but how fair is it to tell a business or corporation who they can hire at what price?

    I am overweight and I know (and statistics show) I will have job descrimination because of this fact. Where are the people standing up for bigger people? Also, jobs advertisements are stating to state if you are unemployed, do not apply. Where are the people standing up for the unemployed? It is all degrees and there is no constitutional amendment for a company to extend equal pay or benefits to anyone.
     
  6. atlclgurl

    atlclgurl Member

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    Equal Protection Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  7. dazedandconfused

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    "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".[

    Under this clause, if there is any law setting pay in the first place, which is unconstitutional, and then women are not given equal pay. But, there is no protection for pay in the constitution.
     
  8. atlclgurl

    atlclgurl Member

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    So? Just because one group continues to get discriminated against doesn't mean all groups should.

    Ever heard of the Equal Right Amendment? Equal Rights Amendment

    Besides, there have beem laws enacted which actively discriminated against gays and lesbians. DADT violated the 14th which is why the courts struck it down.

    There are no laws mandating that men should get paid more than women, so (in theory at least) women COULD get the same pay as men.
     
  9. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Actually, I'm not using this thread to advocate for equal pay even though I do stand for it for obvious reasons. But I guess we should bring that to the table.

    There is absolutely no reason why someone at a job should be receiving less for doing the same exact work under the same job titles. That has nothing to do with the rights of corporations, that's an ethics issue. Saying that it isn't fair to tell business this gives them the freedom to continually discriminate against people based on their sex and isn't that supposed to be illegal in this country?

    Instead of asking me where it is, why don't you advocate for adding that as a stipulation to discrimination laws? However, if someone is gonna openly deny the equal treatment of women on this issue and obstruct that progress, obesity won't EVER stand a chance.

    It's all disingenuous posturing from our Congress, who hasn't voted on a single jobs bill since Boehner became speaker of the house, and private corporations who are only out for their own profits and are perpetuating the problem by outsourcing and cutting higher paying jobs to create cheaper ones with lower wages and less benefits. Both of these entities go up against the government with the usual rhetoric about how they shouldn't be doing anything but getting out of the way of business.

    There are so many things we as citizens are granted that aren't listed in the constitution. So trying to use this as a reason to deny equal pay to women is a joke. Please, I've actually enjoyed debating with you on these threads. Don't be like the rest of the ideologically shallow and try to hide behind a piece of paper that is continually misinterpreted like holy scripture.

    We all know this issue about non-equal pay is ethically wrong and it should be fixed. Period.
     
  10. dazedandconfused

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    Dont get me wrong, I personally stand for equal pay and equality across the board. In fact, working in sports information, I see apathy from men all the time towards women sports. You will be hard pressed to find men in my position as pro-women in athletics (although I do believe title IX needs to be tweeked).

    And believe me, I am totally against DADT and any legislative gay bashing as it is. Those should be illegal. And marriage simply should be a church issue or whatever you believe in. I just do not find any legislative basis for equal pay for a private corporation. Again, public entities are one thing. Gay couples should be awarded the same rights as straight couples just as women are given the same rights as men, and legislatively, that I totally support.

    In terms of benefits and pay, while I personally feel they should be equal, I do not think there is a legislative basis to dictate these things.
     
  11. texas41-38

    texas41-38 Member

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    And the funny thing about Rick Perry, is he is sort of like Troy Aikman, those gay rumors are now decades old and just wont go away. I am expressing no opinion on either gentleman.
     
  12. B_enzia35

    B_enzia35 New Member

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    I agree with lurker, it's such a small part of politics. As long as they concentrate on the right issues, then I have no problem with them. Bachmann is almost too much on the social issues...
     
  13. dazedandconfused

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    There is no other way for Bachmann to get elected, and hence why she is sinking in the polls.
     
  14. B_enzia35

    B_enzia35 New Member

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    Which is why I'm not going to vote for her. Keep your trap shut about social issues and don't force that on me.
     
  15. NYCdude

    NYCdude Member

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    You forgot his stance on DOMA. I understand Obama is halfway there just as he is with everything. And I understand that it was politically possible to repeal DADT, but isn't he probably the greatest President for LGBT community? Times are changing, yes, but he's still done more than anyone else.
     
  16. NYCdude

    NYCdude Member

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    Also, I may be wrong as I am not one of his supporters, but I'm pretty sure that chart is unfair to Ron Paul. Yes, he is against government-recognized gay marriage, but I also believe he is against government-recognized straight marriage, lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he just wants government out of everything.
     
  17. Mensch1351

    Gold Member

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    :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy: VERY astute perception!! (at least with those who are consistent in their philosophies and don't just blow with the political winds!!)
     
  18. dazedandconfused

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    and we have a winner.
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    That chart actually makes Ron Paul look much more reasonable that the mass majority of Republican candidates now looking for the GOP Nomination. He obviously isn't going to be as gung-ho for LGBT issues like the one in the top position (because Karger is actually gay), but with a few exceptions he has a seemingly respectable record. Alas, there are other issues that make me think the chart is being too kind to Paul. When someone is on record saying something as socially ignorant as, "Am I the only one sick of hearing about the 'rights' of AIDS carriers," that leaves room for concern. As if the nation is really trying to put their needs over everyone else's and completely ignoring anyone who looks, acts or thinks like Ron Paul.

    Off The Bus: Ron Paul: New Republic's Allegations Of Bigotry and Homophobia

    On a side note, this notion of "government out of everything" is empty, ideological tripe and thoroughly dishonest. A modern day, civilized country cannot run without government being involved in certain aspects of our lives. If you want that, go live in Somalia. If not, drop the silly campaign slogans because it certainly wasn't "Hope & Change" that pushed me to Obama. Despite the posturing, he does NOT want government out of everything. Look at his stances on the issues. Paul want it out of the way of "business" so that corporations can do whatever they please, with no consequence, and no federal or ethical stipulations attached... but let a woman try to defend her right to have an abortion and see how that "government out of everything" rhetoric completely changes.
     
  20. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    If Ron Paul wants equality by denial of recognition of ALL relationships then Mr. Paul needs to come out and flat say that. I would love to hear Ron Paul talk about the Government getting out of the "Church Business" and organized religion. I would love to hear Ron Paul talk about equality in taxation for everyone.

    Sadly, I am not going to hold my breath on any of this because it is never going to happen. Ron Paul may sound good, but he has no ability in fact to do what he says. The system will not let him. The limitations of the Presidency of the United States will not let him and everything he says to the contrary is a waste of my ear canals.
     
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