Presidential Hopefuls & LGBT Issues

Horrible

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Speak for yourself, LGBT rights are the Civil Rights issue of this generation.

Wow. I guess gay marriage trumps those other so called "important" issues like jobs, economy, recession...

Would you like to ride at the front of the bus?

Yep, gay couples are terribly persecuted in today's society. Give be a fucking break.
 

Klingsor

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Wow. I guess gay marriage trumps those other so called "important" issues like jobs, economy, recession...

Would you like to ride at the front of the bus?

Yep, gay couples are terribly persecuted in today's society. Give be a fucking break.

There are always "important" issues like jobs and the economy (or inflation, or oil spills, or gas lines, or terrorist attacks, or hostage situations, or whatever is the crisis du jour). If you wait for all of those front-page issues to be resolved before attending to anything else, you'll never tackle civil rights at all.

Fortunately, it's not an either/or alternative. It's possible to address the crisis of the moment while at the same time addressing long-standing injustices.

A society that doesn't do both is in pretty poor shape.
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

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There are always "important" issues like jobs and the economy (or inflation, or oil spills, or gas lines, or terrorist attacks, or hostage situations, or whatever is the crisis du jour). If you wait for all of those front-page issues to be resolved before attending to anything else, you'll never tackle civil rights at all.

Fortunately, it's not an either/or alternative. It's possible to address the crisis of the moment while at the same time addressing long-standing injustices.

A society that doesn't do both is in pretty poor shape.


This.

Maybe if Congress took just one less month of vacation they'd be able to squeeze in legislation regarding this issue... but that's expecting Congress to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. At this point I'd be surprised if they could do either... after having read several books on the subject.

So... in Horrible's defense (can't believe I wrote that), if it does boil down to keeping the idiots we continue to put in charge of conducting our national business occupied by one shiny object rather than two? I have to say it should be occupied by job creation and national defense. If it has to be prioritized because of a complete and total inability to multitask?

I mean it's Congress... can the bar really bet set much lower?



JSZ
 

Horrible

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This.

Maybe if Congress took just one less month of vacation they'd be able to squeeze in legislation regarding this issue... but that's expecting Congress to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. At this point I'd be surprised if they could do either.

I mean it's Congress... can the bar really bet set much lower?



JSZ

This.
 

Horrible

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Not surprising, especially since he's waiting to unveil his "job plan" until he gets back from his Martha's vineyard vacation.
 
S

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Less than 5% of Americans identify as homosexual.

And the 2000 Census found that only .42% of American households consisted of same sex, unmarried couples as heads of households. This is less than 1%.

When there are much more important issues at hand, why does appealing to a minority need to be even discussed?
Good point.Personally I haven't the remotest idea what a LGBT issue is supposed to be?!
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

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Good point.Personally I haven't the remotest idea what a LGBT issue is supposed to be?!


Being from the UK (a considerably more favorable environment in terms of equality under the law for homosexual people) I can understand where you might not be as well versed in the vitriol and scorn suffered by gay people at the hands of the citizenry in the United States and by the government officials they elect to represent them. Being from the UK... I can somewhat forgive how this notion might be more foreign to you than it would be to someone form the US.

As someone who identifies as 100% gay, however, I have a hard time believing you can't fathom what an LGBT issue might be. I mean... I'm not a Mormon, but being a member of several minorities, I can imagine issues they might be facing.

I'll give you a chance to clarify before I go any further because if you really need a breakdown on what lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered people face that straight people don't... well, I'm the wrong person to be conversing with I suppose.



JSZ
 

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JSZ

I'm on my phone looking at this, and when I began reading your reply, I had to scroll left because, at first, I thought vinylboy had been reinstated. I think the gentleman from Great Britain was being facetious and sarcastic in his reply to my post.

I would like a pm from you being so active in the gay rights
Movement that you are, about the hardships faced by homosexuals in today's society and I don't mean random instances where a homosexual was killed and the media has spun it to be a hate crime. I'm talking about day to day injustices. Are you not allowed to eat inside of restaurants? Does banana republic refuse to sell clothes to you based on your sexuality alone? I honestly do not see how an outwardly gay man has it so hard. Right now, I feel as if your societal subset is more protected than myself when it comes to jobs, shopping, and daily living.
 

Rikter8

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I agree with lurker, it's such a small part of politics. As long as they concentrate on the right issues, then I have no problem with them. Bachmann is almost too much on the social issues...

But it isn't a small part of Politics.

They are looking to put their religious beliefs into LAW.
So, if you are a citizen that does not practice their religious beliefs - your shit out of luck.

Adolf Hitler #2 here we come.
 

Rikter8

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Wow. I guess gay marriage trumps those other so called "important" issues like jobs, economy, recession...

Would you like to ride at the front of the bus?

Yep, gay couples are terribly persecuted in today's society. Give be a fucking break.

Apparently you are blind or ignorant to the world around you.
GLBT issues are just as important - it's the equality of all people and their freedom.

Would you like a vote which would take your freedom away?
 
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Horrible

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Apparently you are blind or ignorant to the world around you.
GLBT issues are just as important - it's the equality of all people and their freedom.

Would you like a vote which would take your freedom away?


Freedom to do what exactly? Reap the tax benefits of marriage, and insurance benefits?

Like I said before, even gay people can vote, and drive, and drink from public water fountains. This is not 1950, and you are not an OPRESSED minority.
 

Klingsor

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Like I said before, even gay people can vote, and drive, and drink from public water fountains. This is not 1950, and you are not an OPRESSED minority.

Things are definitely better now, and thankfully so. But only because of LGBT people and their supporters applying the same kind of steady political pressure they continue to exert now. Why call a halt to that effort when there's still a significant way to go before reaching full equality?

You may not feel that LGBT people are "oppressed," but it is pretty harshly discriminatory to deny two people who love and are committed to one another the opportunity to get married. (Pretty senseless too: gay people can adopt and raise children in every state in this country. Apparently, that's OK, so long as they're out of wedlock).

If you think that marriage really *isn't* a big deal, please tell that to those on the extreme right who are fighting so hard to keep it away from same-sex couples. Have *them* ease up on this "unimportant" issue, and it won't be an issue at all.

Or, here's a thought. Just ban marriages of *any* kind, so we'll all be on an equal footing. Problem solved! :smile:
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

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JSZ

I'm on my phone looking at this, and when I began reading your reply, I had to scroll left because, at first, I thought vinylboy had been reinstated.

Don't worry, I've no doubt they'll ban me soon enough. Their goal, it seems, is to turn this forum over to a population absent a chromosome or two.

I think the gentleman from Great Britain was being facetious and sarcastic in his reply to my post.

Well, first of all, it'd be hard to do both with the two sentences he posted as neither were funny so I took them on face value. Secondly, I think it's safe to let him respond to his initial intent (as I still think he was serious.)

I would like a pm from you being so active in the gay rights
Movement that you are,

What in gods name are you talking about?

about the hardships faced by homosexuals in today's society and I don't mean random instances where a homosexual was killed and the media has spun it to be a hate crime. I'm talking about day to day injustices. Are you not allowed to eat inside of restaurants? Does banana republic refuse to sell clothes to you based on your sexuality alone? I honestly do not see how an outwardly gay man has it so hard.

You know, someone somewhere probably said the same thing about black people in the 50's? Why should they be able to drink from the same fountains and eat at the same restaurants as white people? It's not like they're being whipped, lynched, and enslaved anymore. Why are we making such a big deal out of this? They're not oppressed the way they used to be and we have bigger things to focus on right now than where they get to sit on the bus!

You don't understand how homosexuals have it so hard? Of course you don't. That's like the white person in Texas who looks on their illegal immigrant gardener, sips from a tall glass of iced tea and says, "I seriously don't understand what the hell their problem is, my life is fantastic."

Progress doesn't mean you get to a baseline of equality for most people and then wash your hands of it because its better than it used to be. Progress is perpetually making life better for all people, sometimes painfully small steps at a time. It's bad enough gay people have to deal with a discriminatory attitude from ignorant people throughout their lives, they shouldn't have to face discrimination in the form of a law or piece of legislation designed to discount who they are.

If you need it explained to a greater extent please say so. There's a video from Sesame Street I've been dying to link someone to that explains all of this using muppets and song.




JSZ
 

Horrible

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Or, here's a thought. Just ban marriages of *any* kind, so we'll all be on an equal footing. Problem solved! :smile:

I agree, marriage is a horrible institution.

Don't worry, I've no doubt they'll ban me soon enough. Their goal, it seems, is to turn this forum over to a population absent a chromosome or two.

I am about to start a "don't ban JSZ" thread in etc etc If you leave, I will lose one of the people I truly enjoy engaging, especially since VB is gone.


Well, first of all, it'd be hard to do both with the two sentences he posted as neither were funny so I took them on face value. Secondly, I think it's safe to let him respond to his initial intent (as I still think he was serious.)

I took them that way, you obviously did not, but who can say best except him?

What in gods name are you talking about?

I wasn't looking to argue publicly about which rights you are not allowed being an openly gay man.

You know, someone somewhere probably said the same thing about black people in the 50's? Why should they be able to drink from the same fountains and eat at the same restaurants as white people? It's not like they're being whipped, lynched, and enslaved anymore. Why are we making such a big deal out of this? They're not oppressed the way they used to be and we have bigger things to focus on right now than where they get to sit on the bus!

You don't understand how homosexuals have it so hard? Of course you don't. That's like the white person in Texas who looks on their illegal immigrant gardener, sips from a tall glass of iced tea and says, "I seriously don't understand what the hell their problem is, my life is fantastic."

Hey, I have one of those. And, if you'd like you may visit and speak with him about how much he LOVES this country and how grateful he is for what he has and the ability to even be here. Provided you speak spanish.
But, I have never watched him work whilst sipping my iced tea sitting on my veranda lol.

Progress doesn't mean you get to a baseline of equality for most people and then wash your hands of it because its better than it used to be. Progress is perpetually making life better for all people, sometimes painfully small steps at a time. It's bad enough gay people have to deal with a discriminatory attitude from ignorant people throughout their lives, they shouldn't have to face discrimination in the form of a law or piece of legislation designed to discount who they are.

So, everyone who is not in support of homosexuality is ignorant? Your sexuality does not define who you are, and knowing that, there obviously cannot be laws or legislation discounting you as a person.

If you need it explained to a greater extent please say so. There's a video from Sesame Street I've been dying to link someone to that explains all of this using muppets and song.

If, for no other reason than entertainment, I would like to watch this video.

On another note, ironically enough, someone said today that Bert was to marry Ernie on a soon to air episode, what do you know about that?




JSZ