Presidential Hopefuls & LGBT Issues

D_Percy_Prettywillie

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There are two pertinent things I'm going to respond to from above since I can't multiquote it the way I would a post that was formatted differently. If I leave something important out let me know.

1.) Idealistically, the government would have nothing to do with marriage. There would be no tangible benefit to entering into that contract with another person. There would be nothing granted to you in terms of favorability for loans or adoptions, in terms of whom you were allowed to visit in the hospital, in terms of revisions to the way your taxes were paid, in terms of your credit rating, that wouldn't or couldn't be granted to an individual. Marriage, in that scenario, would be just like any other religious practice- engaged in by those of a particular faith- no different than say, a Bris (two scenarios wherein a man gives up part of his penis. : ) )

That's never going to happen though. Marriage is inexorably woven into the system and there's little to nothing that can be done about that now. So long as that's the case, what is granted to some, should be granted to all. If it's really not that big of a deal, tell the "defenders of marriage" to look at the statistics on how straight people have treated that oh so sacred institution, and then tell them to sit down and shut up- we do have other things perhaps more worthy of our national attention. For it to be considered just, however, what is granted to the majority must also be granted to the minority and that is the bottom line.


2.)


So, everyone who is not in support of homosexuality is ignorant?
I don't need their support. I don't support Nascar but it would be ignorant of me to try to put a stop to it because I personally don't like or understand it (and by "understand" I mean insofar as how people are entertained by it.) I don't want their "support." I want to be left alone, unfettered and unmolested, to live my life as I see fit right up to the point that doing so infringes upon someone else's right to do the same thing.

Your sexuality does not define who you are, and knowing that, there obviously cannot be laws or legislation discounting you as a person.
You're right that my sexuality doesn't define who I am. In the eyes of the people who propose the legislation that would essentially be a government stamp of disapproval for my orientation, however, it does. They don't care about the rest of what constitutes me as a person, they only care that I'm gay, and that my agenda to subvert American culture be stopped. That's where I take exception to all of this.

3.) I can't find the link to the Sesame Street deal but it's Elmo and Hitler and that black guy and it's really funny. As soon as Youtube turns it up I'll pass it along.



JSZ
 

Bbucko

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I would like a pm from you being so active in the gay rights
Movement that you are, about the hardships faced by homosexuals in today's society and I don't mean random instances where a homosexual was killed and the media has spun it to be a hate crime. I'm talking about day to day injustices. Are you not allowed to eat inside of restaurants? Does banana republic refuse to sell clothes to you based on your sexuality alone? I honestly do not see how an outwardly gay man has it so hard. Right now, I feel as if your societal subset is more protected than myself when it comes to jobs, shopping, and daily living.

As long as DOMA remains in place, our marriages don't exist in the eyes of the Feds. There is this tragic story from California:

S.F. gay married couple loses immigration battle


Citing the Defense of Marriage Act, the Obama administration denied immigration benefits to a married gay couple from San Francisco and ordered the expulsion of a man who is the primary caregiver to his AIDS-afflicted spouse.
And as to shopping, a lesbian was denied the right to purchase a wedding dress in NJ, for reals.

Though it's illegal in Massachusetts, one can be denied employment and housing in Florida because of one's sexual orientation. It's like that in many (if not most) states. Sexual orientation is not a universally-recognized protected class in civil rights matters.
 
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dazedandconfused

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On gay right's issues, I cannot understand Obama. If he truly believes in same sec marriage, against DOMA, and against "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," come out blasting. The republicans hate you no matter what you say and I do not think he loses anyone who is going to vote for you. So wonders if he really does not want gay marriage or a repeal of DADT.

As much as this pains me to say, as I personally feel this is outrage and have no problem railing against this, I do not know if the constitution allows Congress to pass laws for hiring people, rather than for the government, can tell a company who they can and cannot hire in terms of quota. We go on with quotas in the US in terms of sex and ethncity, but what about discrimination fat people face or the fact that open jobs now basically are saying we will not hire a person if they are unemployed.

Same thing for "hate crimes." What the heck is the difference if someone plugs a person because they want to steal a wallet compared to someone plugging someone else because they are black/fat/muslim, etc...

Again, I am in the "governent, get the heck out of marriage" crowd.
 

Klingsor

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On gay right's issues, I cannot understand Obama. If he truly believes in same sec marriage, against DOMA, and against "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," come out blasting. The republicans hate you no matter what you say and I do not think he loses anyone who is going to vote for you. So wonders if he really does not want gay marriage or a repeal of DADT.

He signed the repeal of DADT into law. I'll take that as a clue to his intentions.
 

dreamer20

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cruztbone

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yes, NYC dude , Obama IS the greatest president ever for the GLBT community. as a 58 year old , i go back to Dwight Eisenhower. no one come within a light year of Obama's record. and yes, you have to repeal DOMA first before you can pass new legislation to replace it. DUH !! one reason why i ran for the local school board where i live in CA as an out gay Latino male was BECAUSE Obama is president. by the way, i won the election , unopposed. imagine that !!
 

Mensch1351

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I believe it was just a few years back at some news/political event (not the Jackson day dinner but the one where politicians are made fun of) Al Franken (who then was NOT Senator Franken) made the remark: The Republicans ARE the family values party -- they hold sacred the institution of marriage. And if you don't believe that, just ask Bob Dole's first wife, or Newt Gingrich's first wife, or Dick Armey's first wife (and I think there were about 4 more he mentioned!) The expressions on THEIR faces were priceless! And wasn't it David Vitter and Larry Craig who introduced the DOMA into Congress?
 

Horrible

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As long as DOMA remains in place, our marriages don't exist in the eyes of the Feds. There is this tragic story from California:

And as to shopping, a lesbian was denied the right to purchase a wedding dress in NJ, for reals.

Though it's illegal in Massachusetts, one can be denied employment and housing in Florida because of one's sexual orientation. It's like that in many (if not most) states. Sexual orientation is not a universally-recognized protected class in civil rights matters.

I didnt realize you were trying to solicit a response, or I would have given you one earlier.

I made a statement covering a generalization regarding the treatment of homosexuals. You responded with a specific instance.

What sort of response were you expecting?

Btw, I perused the spin cycle from your signature, it is a deplorable rendition of depravity.
 

Bbucko

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I didnt realize you were trying to solicit a response, or I would have given you one earlier.

I made a statement covering a generalization regarding the treatment of homosexuals. You responded with a specific instance.

What sort of response were you expecting?

Btw, I perused the spin cycle from your signature, it is a deplorable rendition of depravity.

You seem to have missed my last paragraph in that post:

Though it's illegal in Massachusetts, one can be denied employment and housing in Florida because of one's sexual orientation. It's like that in many (if not most) states. Sexual orientation is not a universally-recognized protected class in civil rights matters.

When it's legal to discriminate openly against someone based strictly on their sexual orientation (and transgendered identity), then we are second-class citizens within those jurisdictions. We can be and frequently are denied accommodation, housing and employment. In at least a handful of states, our right to adopt children and build families is outlawed as well.

The US as a whole is not as evolved as you seem to think, which is why, outside of those states where our civil rights are codified specifically, people tend not to live integrated, open lives. They either stay pretty closeted or else live in gay ghettos. Being open and honest about being gay can be extremely dangerous for millions of Americans.

I'll take your last line as a compliment; "depraved" is one of my favorite soubriquets. If you'd like, I can send you a full study guide to my work published there: just ask. Thanks :biggrin1:
 

Horrible

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You seem to have missed my last paragraph in that post:



When it's legal to discriminate openly against someone based strictly on their sexual orientation (and transgendered identity), then we are second-class citizens within those jurisdictions. We can be and frequently are denied accommodation, housing and employment. In at least a handful of states, our right to adopt children and build families is outlawed as well.

The US as a whole is not as evolved as you seem to think, which is why, outside of those states where our civil rights are codified specifically, people tend not to live integrated, open lives. They either stay pretty closeted or else live in gay ghettos. Being open and honest about being gay can be extremely dangerous for millions of Americans.

I believe you, I really do not feel like researching it, nor do I really feel like arguing about it, because it will come off as hating gays, which I do not. But, I do live in a rural area of Texas, not far from where James Byrd was dragged to death, and I know SEVERAL gays that live in the open with impunity, both males and females and Im sure most people would consider where I live to be very "backwoods" and extremely conservative. It is hard for me to fathom any place less tolerant than here.
I'll take your last line as a compliment; "depraved" is one of my favorite soubriquets. If you'd like, I can send you a full study guide to my work published there: just ask. Thanks :biggrin1:

I never said I didn't like it. hehe
 

Frnkd213

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Most pols blow with the wind when it comes to the LBGT communities and their voting power.

Obama courted the gay vote and then promptly ignored LGBT issues for the first couple years of his presidency, which caused much consernation and the boycotting of a DNC fundraiser. Here's link that discusses this: Outraged By Obama Legal Brief, Gay Democratic Donors Boycotting DNC Bash - Political Punch

While I give the Obama administration props for the ending of DADT, I don't give them ALL the credit as they jumped on the bandwagon only when it was clear that the wagon was leaving, either with or without them on it.

It is true the Obama could not abolish DADT without approval of the legislative branch he could have, and should have, issued and executive order stopping all of the "You're gay... get the hell out, right now!" crap. But, alas he did not. He's also on record as saying that his views on gay marraige are "evolving". Oh, so I guess that means he doesn't favor gay marriage but might be talking into supporting it (if politically expedient).

If it sounds like I'm beating up on Obama, I'm not really, just pointing out that while he is certainly better than any of the Repubs, he's not really a dedicated friend to the LGBT community, he's more of a fair weather friend.

Of course, the Repubs are no friends at all...


My understanding of this is that Secretary Gates suggested that a process be developed so as not to have the courts get involved causing a chaotic implementation of stopping DADT.

Could he have made an executive decision I guess he could have. I somehow feel Obama is pragmatic and really looks at cause and effect of every decision he makes. Yet if it fails or falters he takes responsibility. The fact that DADT was defeated is an accomplishment.

I have many friends and family in the LGBT community, I support the efforts to gain equal rights, recognition etc by way of protection under the law, as stated in the constitution. I don't believe that Obama needs to sign a "contract to the LGBT community" in order to demonstrate his support for the LGBT issues and struggle. Rather the actions he has shown, though may not be as apparent, clearly benefits all Americans and have far reaching impact to the rest of the world.
That to me is the difference in this presidency, as Americans we are part of a global community whether we like or not, the world looks at America with respect or disdain, envy or pity, pride or shame and our president i belive sees this.
He is an American a Patriot not just by birth but by action and that's all that matters to me.

Humanism is such a difficult thing to perceive and practice yet we all need to start.