Principessa banned?

[naughty]

wait a minute -- if everything was a big misunderstanding, and is now recognized as such, why does the same result obtain?

That is because it was only recognized by me in my post. I no longer have super powers so I can recognize things til the cows come home and it wont affect the outcome.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Folks,

I believe I have figured it out. There was a definite generational and continental disconnect at play. Principessa posted the thread and expressed her pride that Shani Davis a "african american, black, negro, colored,etc" man had won the 1000 meter speed skating race. In the US, because of their history (By the way, it is African American History month here in the US) African Americans have always felt special pride when one of their own distinguished him or herself proudly. As ugly as it may seem usually when someone says an "American" did anything the automatic assumption unless specified is that they are white. This is a privilige that comes with majority. It was stated that he was black. This was special because 1) it was unusual for blacks to be known to excell in winter sports and 2) He won gold and 3)he was American.

It seems that Lemon seeing the reference to Davis' color immediately took umbrage thought it racist and added a somewhat cheeky remark. This was followed by another YOUNG man of American alleged Bi racial decent who expressed his feelings that it was unfortunate that his race was pointed out. Yes it was unfortunate but in a less than ideal world people still see things , pardon the pun, in black and white.

In her first response Principessa mentioned reasons behind all of the things that were mentioned to be offensive. However they did not seem to suffice and another round ensued at which point she exploded and responded in what might be thought to be a less than correct fashion.

It is not right to use such a term but context must be taken into consideration here. SHe felt she was being baited and responded on par with the baiting. All concerned whether done out of malice or not neeeded to step back and actually hear what the other was saying. Unfortunately because of generational and national differences in the way certain things are viewed what could have been cut and dried clearly wasnt.
As Silver Train mentioned , context is all. This would have been a perfect situation for arbitration however the opportunity was missed. No matter the intent the effect was the same.

I don't know if what she did is worthy of getting banned, but Principessa called another member or members Crackers, and made disparaging remarks about their age and nationality. If she were so much older and wiser I'm not sure she would have done that.

In my opinion calling someone a Cracker in earnest is pretty offensive and racist.


Put it this way, if I'd behaved in a similar fashion I would accept a ban and wouldn't expect anyone else to be surprised at it.

 

[invisibleman]

I was sad to see Cigarbabe banned and I am even more sad to see Princi banned as well.

We got along great. We had our disagreements but it was purely perspective.

I disagree with a lot here on LPSG. But in the end, I don't hate peeps for not agreeing.

I doubt that Princi will come back. If she does...I really think that she will be a changed person for all of this. She has a lot going on in her own life to care about all of this anyway. Sad to say.

:frown1:

 

[Gillette]

It's a conspiracy I tell you!

If you look closely at her posts of the last few days the quote tags were executed perfectly (with one exception). It can't possibly have been her posting.

Frankly I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by this ban.

 

[Wish-4-8]

Isnt this a case of "the last straw that broke the camels back"?

With the 3 strikes law in California, you get three chances to behave. So even if your last crime is stealing a piece of pizza, you still get sentenced for life. (which happened BTW)

Now, this all seems like some people here are saying, "she got banned for just stealing a piece of pizza." That view is too one sided. There is a history there. What about the other strikes, or chances she was given? Which sounds like they were given.

Rules are rules. Sorry. We are all still guest at this "party". So why do so many have these entitlement issues. The website is free, geez. The least you could do is watch what you say, or how you say it. Im sure you could still make your point AND follow the TOS. I know other sites that kick you out for using bad grammar.

 

[D_Ivana Dickenside]

if the mods believe that banning Principessa (or NJQT as i still know her) was the right decision, then it's something we as a forum should support. it's sad to see a long time member go, but she has be held accountable for her actions.

 

[D_Ivana Dickenside]

Rules are rules... So why do so many have these entitlement issues. The website is free, geez. The least you could do is watch what you say, or how you say it. Im sure you could still make your point AND follow the TOS.

^ agreed!

 

[naughty]

I don't know if what she did is worthy of getting banned, but Principessa called another member or members Crackers, and made disparaging remarks about their age and nationality. If she were so much older and wiser I'm not sure she would have done that.

In my opinion calling someone a Cracker in earnest is pretty offensive and racist.


Put it this way, if I'd behaved in a similar fashion I would accept a ban and wouldn't expect anyone else to be surprised at it.

Once again, you just dont get it. I am not condoning her action. I am explaining how it came to be... The reality is that the decision is up to the moderator board and they have spoken. We, however, are allowed to discuss the situation and express our individual feelings about it.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

I personally don't care if she is allowed to come back or not. If she did what she has been accused of doing I don't see how they can let her come back.

Context is everything. Intent is everything. If you can offer a mea culpa and mean it, that is a quality to keep here in this community. Authentic people that make mistakes and make ammends are worth welcoming back.

There is an appealic process and I hope that NJ uses that, b/c she's smart enough to plead her case. She has a right to be prideful and if that was her intent, she should explain that to the mods, b/c intent is everything.

Everyone of us say things that we regret when we're baited or having been blasted for something taken out of context.

 

[MrToolhung]

I am just curious what a person who spends that much time here will do now. Over 19,000 posts? Average of 16 a day? Thats got to hurt.

My prediction? Get ready folks, this place is going to be famous...

Check your news channels.

That is a lot of posts. I know that I will never reach that!

 

[Qua]

If you look closely at her posts of the last few days the quote tags were executed perfectly (with one exception). It can't possibly have been her posting.

LMAO! That always made me giggle. It was endearing in a way

 

[Drifterwood]

Well, I know what she wanted to do to my white ass

I don't have a problem if people are called for being a white stereotype, or a black stereotype as that black American comedian does. I don't mind anyone being called for acting like any stereotype.

What about fat people? Skinny people, people with small dicks or no balls? Flat chested fat asses? Hicks and Rednecks, twinks and dinks?

And sheep-shaggin Welshies with three brown teeth? OK, two.

 

[D_Portelay Porquesword]

Originally Posted by Wish-4-8
I am just curious what a person who spends that much time here will do now. Over 19,000 posts? Average of 16 a day? Thats got to hurt.

My prediction? Get ready folks, this place is going to be famous...

Check your news channels.

She takes care of two elderly parents, in house.
If you had read her blogs you would understand why she was here contributing as she did. This was an outlet for her.

So now, tell me, is there a written law that says there is post count limit?

You're eluding to something quite harsh here with your prediction Miss Cleo.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that talking out your ass about someone you obviously do not know, proves a point made earlier in this thread.

 

[Viking_UK]

I wouldn't class myself as a friend of hers. I didn't know her well enough for that, but I'd like to think that we could have been. She has her faults and prejudices, like we all do, but I can't say I ever thought she was malicious - hot-tempered, misguided and ill-informed at times, not to mention bit of a knee-jerk reactionary, but not malicious.

I for one hope she can come back and will miss her if she doesn't.

 

[MarkLondon]

What's a "Cracker" and why is it considered an offensive term? I've never heard it before.

 

[Xcuze]

What's a "Cracker" and why is it considered an offensive term? I've never heard it before.

Nor had I.

Cracker

 

[prepstudinsc]

What's a "Cracker" and why is it considered an offensive term? I've never heard it before.

I always thought that this was a term from the US, especially in the southern US. While the urban dictionary gives many definitions of it, the usage is generally applied to those of a more "redneck" persuasion, not just all people of white heritage.

Because I'm not of Anglo-Saxon background, I don't find it offensive, and when I have heard it used, it was purely in a joking context. The same applies to the word "Honky". It just seems like such a Fred Sanford kind of term. It is not equal in any way, shape or form to the "n word". If any white person were to equate the two words, I think I'd have to beat some sense into them.

 

[Mem]

I always thought that this was a term from the US, especially in the southern US. While the urban dictionary gives many definitions of it, the usage is generally applied to those of a more "redneck" persuasion, not just all people of white heritage.

Because I'm not of Anglo-Saxon background, I don't find it offensive, and when I have heard it used, it was purely in a joking context. The same applies to the word "Honky". It just seems like such a Fred Sanford kind of term. It is not equal in any way, shape or form to the "n word". If any white person were to equate the two words, I think I'd have to beat some sense into them.

Just because cracker or honky don't have the same weight or severity as the n word does not mean that the intent to offend someone racially is not the same. Are you in favor of giving everyone who uses the n word out of frustration or hatred a second chance here too? One racist remark should obviously not be allowed, therefore neither should the other.

It doesn't matter if you find cracker or honky offensive, I don't either. The point is that they are said with specific intent to be a racist slur.

 

[Kotchanski]

I'm not going to get into my personal opinion on that word, the n word or any other word, because that isn't the issue here and people really need to stop focusing on it so much.

I had promised myself I wouldn't post here, because I always make matters worse when I do, but I just can't help myself.

I, like many others here and on the team have a fondness for NJ (I'll never get used to her new name) though we didn't always see eye to eye.

At least 4 former mods have posted to this thread now, and I have to say I'm a little confused... you've been on the team, some of you make reference to having been on the team, yet you seem to think that the reason put into the mod action file is the start and end of every issue? You know better than that.

I'm not discussing this one particular case, as there are many to which this applies, but when we ban someone, be it temp or perm, we have to put in a reason for the system records and for them to see when they try to log in (yes that part of the system now works!) That doesn't mean that if Pecker puts in "harassment of Gillette" as the reason that that is all there was to it, it just means that that was the was a large part of the reason. We're not going to sit here and write an essay into a tiny little box, or a large and regularly updated thread for every member we ban.

Perm bans (outside of the obvious) come after a series of events, after a person has been warned, in some cases a number of times and shown little to no willingness to change.

Short of listing every complaint ever received about x member, I don't see what more we can do?

You all know that I favour complete openness when it comes to why people are banned. I want to post every time we send a heads up, every time we warn someone and I want to send PMs to people who report things letting them know that others have to and what we're intending to do about it, but I don't make the rules so I can't, not to mention how unfair it would be on said member to tell others that they'd been warned (I can see the threads now... x warning for harassment!!! followed by 8 pages showing where others have done the same and not been warned and another 9 pages of links to where they've continued and need to be banned)

The fact remains that there are only so many times we can speak to the same member about things, only so long we can make excuses for other peoples actions. A time has to come where you say, well actually we're getting the same reports time and time again, maybe there's something in this after all?

As others have said before, she has every right to appeal and it will be treated like all the others we've had (a small correction, far more than 2 have been reinstated, they just weren't high profile enough to get attention) but the decision was made based on her full history here, not just one silly bloody post. If bans were made on the back of one single post, we'd never ban anyone, and I'm 99% sure that each and every member in this thread could if pushed name at least 1 member they don't want to see coming back?

 

[Onslow]

It wasn't one incident that resulted in the ban and that one did not come into it.

Human nature will make those who like her be positively biased and those who don't take the opportunity to malign. That's not fair as the person isn't here to answer.

Accumulated violations. Same as if a person keeps screwing up the judge stops saying 30 days or one hundred dollars and sends them away for a year or more.

. When I was a mod, we got attacked all the time for being too strict, but I swear, we were total pansies compared to how it is now. I am very sensitive when it comes to racist stuff, but I don't see anything that would have been ban-worthy a year or two ago.

Today, people get banned for stupid things that they innocently do. New members who have naked avatars are banned before they even get a chance. Back in the day, we would send a message to the person, change the avatar, and then tell them to change it to something that fits the ToS.

When I was a moderator~~~~~
.

Yeah we get it you WERE a moderator, past tense.

On avatars there used to be a window of chance because it wasn't as obvious about them. Now there is when you place an avatar a sign comes up and asks about nudity and gives a warning.

She's pretty fiery and lately was grumpy too. However, she's not one of those for whom their sole purpose for posting here is to set off flame wars.
Those creepy types are still here.
Dave

Yeah grumpy sums it up maybe all the difficult stuff she's going through still there's no excuse to ever use a racist slur. Grumpy, rude, insults maybe at times but to say something racist is wrong, rough tough life or not.

The only thing I will say was she complained about racism a lot but usually dished far more than she got. More generally she would rudely call people ignorant and insult one's intelligence for not seeing things her way on matters of opinion. Therefore this doesn't surprise me.

.

Above Repeated for truthfulness.

I had not developed any sort of relationship with NJ (nee Principessa), but I am sad to see her go over this.

I posted recently in another thread that I felt lpsg was a comparatively well-administered and well-moderated site. However, I've remained a bit aghast that I received a "demerit" (which is still visible on my profile page) for taking part in a night-long mocking of some racial bigots here on lpsg a couple of years ago. I received an "infraction" for "racist remarks" after I mocked a blatant bigot by posting an ironic, satirical batch of blather.

Moderation is an imprecise science to say the least.

My response to "Bette" who had been posting racist shite all night:

http://www.lpsg.org/100545-michelle-obama-4.html#post1679772

.

Where are these demerits found in the profiles? I didn't know they listed them or even had them. I knew people got warnings on most behavior or language but nude avatars or incest or under age sex content were immediate explulsion,

Folks,

I believe I have figured it out. There was a definite generational and continental disconnect at play. Principessa posted the thread and expressed her pride that Shani Davis a "african american, black, negro, colored,etc" man had won the 1000 meter speed skating race. In the US, because of their history (By the way, it is African American History month here in the US) African Americans have always felt special pride when one of their own distinguished him or herself proudly. As ugly as it may seem usually when someone says an "American" did anything the automatic assumption unless specified is that they are white. This is a privilige that comes with majority. It was stated that he was black. This was special because 1) it was unusual for blacks to be known to excell in winter sports and 2) He won gold and 3)he was American.

It seems that Lemon seeing the reference to Davis' color immediately took umbrage thought it racist and added a somewhat cheeky remark. This was followed by another YOUNG man of American alleged Bi racial decent who expressed his feelings that it was unfortunate that his race was pointed out. Yes it was unfortunate but in a less than ideal world people still see things , pardon the pun, in black and white.

In her first response Principessa mentioned reasons behind all of the things that were mentioned to be offensive. However they did not seem to suffice and another round ensued at which point she exploded and responded in what might be thought to be a less than correct fashion.

It is not right to use such a term but context must be taken into consideration here. SHe felt she was being baited and responded on par with the baiting. All concerned whether done out of malice or not neeeded to step back and actually hear what the other was saying. Unfortunately because of generational and national differences in the way certain things are viewed what could have been cut and dried clearly wasnt.
As Silver Train mentioned , context is all. This would have been a perfect situation for arbitration however the opportunity was missed. No matter the intent the effect was the same.

In fairness naughty the thread itself was probably just the last straw. Look back at Davy/Cunning Stunt's comment he says IT WAS NOT ONE INCIDENT.
I am equally discouraged you singled out a poster as being both young and allegedly biracial. Who are you to decide who really is and who isn't really biracial or black or white or asian or hispanic or anything else? And why pick on a person's age? Some of the young posters are far wiser and smarter than some of the older ones.

That is because it was only recognized by me in my post. I no longer have super powers so I can recognize things til the cows come home and it wont affect the outcome.

Delusions of Sainthood naughty? "only recognized by me" What, everybody else is too dense to know anything?

Frankly I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by this ban.

A lot of people had thought it might eventually happen. Between disruptive, racist and posting huge portions of artiicle content openly and who knows how she may have been in PMs, it was added up over time and as Davy/Cunning indicated, It was not one incident it added up apparently.

Just because cracker or honky don't have the same weight or severity as the n word does not mean that the intent to offend someone racially is not the same. Are you in favor of giving everyone who uses the n word out of frustration or hatred a second chance here too? One racist remark should obviously not be allowed, therefore neither should the other.

It doesn't matter if you find cracker or honky offensive, I don't either. The point is that they are said with specific intent to be a racist slur.

I liked what Mem said. Same standards apply to all and again going back to what Davy/Cunning said IT wasn't one incident.



Hopefully Principassa will get on with her life and if she wants and can will get to return. There too the moderators have a say and they will base it on her past and what she has to say.

If anyone has contact numbers or e-mails for her, tell her people do and will miss her.