"prison is hard" waahhhh

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by drumstyck, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. drumstyck

    drumstyck New Member

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    Teen Murderer Says Jail Is Too Hard, Appeals Sentence - News - WFTV.com | WFTV



    DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- One of the teenagers responsible for beating a Holly Hill homeless man to death asked a judge to reduce his 22-year prison sentence Monday. Warren Messner and three other teens pled guilty to killing the man because they were bored, but Messner said prison is too hard.

    Messner is a big boy. He was 15 at the time he was brought into the woods to see the homeless man his friends had been beating. Even at that young age, he outweighed the victim, Michael Roberts, by 200 pounds when he jumped on his chest, crushing his ribcage. Roberts died.

    "Did you feel bad when you are doing it?" Messner was asked during questioning."Not really, no," he replied.

    He didn't feel bad then, but he does now. He has been in juvenile detention for eight months, locked in a small cell and occasionally allowed to go to class.Messner and his attorney said he has already learned his lesson and is ready to go home to help others.

    "I want to be an inspirational speaker for troubled teens," he said Monday.

    Messner got the lightest sentence of the four boys. Teens Jeffrey Spurgeon, Justin Stearns and Christopher Scamahorn got 27 to 35 years. They all cut plea deals to avoid life in prison.The state attorney said that's as much leniency as they should get and the judge agreed.

    "I can't think of some reason to change the sentence. I'm going to deny the motion," said the Hon. Joseph Will.Messner's parents broke down at the denial. His mother said it's unfair, that her son fell in with a bad crowd and prison is killing him.

    "He's not getting the mental health, the schooling. He's not getting anything, anything but locked in a cell all day long," Lori Messner said.The judge and the state both argued that being deprived services and being locked away is precisely the point of prison. Warren Messner will spend the next 22 years in prison without the chance for parole.
     
  2. dags

    dags New Member

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    "He's not getting the mental health, the schooling. He's not getting anything, anything but locked in a cell all day long," Lori Messner said.

    Ah Entitlement, the nerve and sheer gall of people really annoys me.
     
  3. snoozan

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    While I don't disagree with the sentiments that this kid is a complete waste of flesh, or even worse, one things concerns me about the attitude of complete deprivation of rights and services for prisoners. When this person gets out of jail at 35 (I think), he will be absolutely unprepared for life in the real world. Recidivism is a huge problem in the US, and I don't think we've properly come to a solution. I just don't know if making prison a horrible, awful place has ever worked as a deterrent for further criminal activity. I just don't know if the current rehabilitation model works all that well either.

    Snoozan
     
  4. Nitrofiend

    Nitrofiend New Member

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    Just kill him, it makes everything easier. Fuck reintegration, this kid's gone.
     
  5. thedude111

    thedude111 New Member

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    Not sure the actual time. But I believe most of the states that put someone to death. It takes about 16 to 19 years. In that time...there are a massive amount of Attorney and court fees. It costs us more to kill, then keep them alive. I'm all for death for True murderers. But who wants to pay more tax too. Plus...doing time is truly a GREAT way to suffer! Which this kid deserves.

    I wonder what type of parents he had. Why was he 300Lbs at 15 yrs of age. He sure isn't that heavy now. So not a glandular problem.
    There's a Big difference in being Good to your Kid. And being Good For your Kid. I'm sure his home life has a lot to do with his attitude!
     
  6. thedude111

    thedude111 New Member

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    Also, your right Snoozin! Nothing in any country has worked ever. Some for short times.... a trade in if you will, they make changes in prisons. Then it seems not to work again.
    Did you know that almost all crime in America is related to some sort of drug. NOT all, but most. Count Alcohol too as a drug. If they are not committing a crime under drug/alcohol influence. Often enough it is FOR the drug or alcohol. More deaths and beatings are because one or both parties are drunk. Specially in families!
    I heard in recent yrs. many prisons are or have removed weights from the prisons. I always thought why would you have a rapist that weighs 175Lbs enter prison. And allow him to Muscle up to 220Lbs.?
    But I can't see making it easy either.... Most people make mistakes. Many often. But some people are truly NOT good no matter what.
    Evil begets Evil.
     
  7. Hatched69

    Hatched69 Member

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    Too hard? Hmm. What about the deceased victim's family? Wonder how "hard" it was to place their beloved in the ground after these twits had their fun. These little shits should have been forced to dig the grave nonstop until it's finished with a garden trowel. :mad:
    These little bastards need to learn what "Prison Bitch" means. That'll give them a reason to whine.:tongue:
     
  8. rob_just_rob

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    I'm torn.

    Obviously the kid was or is a waste of a life, with no remorse and he definitely does not belong in society with the attitude he displays.

    On the other hand...exactly what is he going to do when he gets out at 37, as Snoozan says? No school, no trade, no understanding of society other than prison society.

    Teach him a trade and put him to work in prison - make him contribute something to his own upkeep. You can't just lock people up to rot and expect the problem to go away, as the current crime rate and prison population in the USA demonstrates. Unfortunately, I don't think the prison system is designed to do anything else.
     
  9. Heather LouAnna

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    Send him on over to Texas. We'll take care of him.

    *props up halo*:biggrin1:
     
  10. SpeedoGuy

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    In several of the places I've lived in, the police/sheriff/jail complex was by far the biggest building in the county.
     
  11. AlteredEgo

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    My mother always said that the US should purchase and vacate or build some islands in a really harsh climate, with a formidable terrain. Then they should give convicts of heinous crimes 60 minutes of skydiving demonstration. They should be placed on a plane with just their parachutes and dropped. If there's 100 convicts, 20 of the chutes should fail. Then supplies for 25 should be dropped. Ten of the supply packs should have knives. Her thinking was that if people wanted to be bad, they should be put someplace where they'd have to be bad or perish thinking they were bad. I always listened to this idea and thought it was ridiculous and insane (still do). However, when I read about assholes like these, it's a nice fantasy.
     
  12. Heather LouAnna

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    Mental health is hilarious on many levels, but when it's costing people lives, it's really not anymore. Your mother and her opinions are just as bad.

    lol no offense..
     
  13. AlteredEgo

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    Meh. She was extremist about everything. And she liked violence. I don't know though. I'm not so sure that her opinion that those convicted of heinous crimes should be left to rot but given a teenie-tiny chance to work out some kind of existence for themselves is any worse than our present system of executing these same people. I wouldn't support either. I find them both impractical, cruel, and not satisfying. And I do not think there is a punnishment we can come up with which will deter crime, or bring back the dead, heal the maimed, or unrape the raped. Sorry. Gas chambers, electric chairs, injections, firing squads, nooses, or deserted islands- I don't see how any of those help.
     
  14. AndrewEndowed24

    AndrewEndowed24 New Member

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    It's obvious that they simply do not understand the gravity of their crime. They are intellectually incapable of being moral agents. I don't know what to do with them, but to pretend that locking them away for 22 years is justice rather than -at best- some sort of necessary tragedy is absurd. We are talking about 15 year old kids with "abnormally low iq's" here, not Patrick Bateman. They were incapable of negotiating the mixed messages sent by our society about the personhood of the homeless, the appropriateness of violence and the laws and moral codes devised by smart grown ups who are woefully ignorant of the difficulties the not-so-bright face in following them.

    The very thing that we are mocking him for, the stupidity of his complaint, is actually a sign of its validity.

    basically, all men are cruel, but to be dumb and cruel is to be sent to prison in our country, the average iq stats on death row are frightening.
     
  15. Heather LouAnna

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    The kid's obviously a sociopath.
     
  16. AndrewEndowed24

    AndrewEndowed24 New Member

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    all the more reason that a punitive sentence is innapropriate from the perspective of individual justice -he doesn't get it, he doesn't have a normal moral sense and thus he shouldn't be punished for violating a code that he can't decipher. (note that to not have an explicitly punitive sentence does not preclude some form of incarceration) Frankly we should start to worry about whether our punishment is ethical whenever the defendant isn't clever enough to lie when he is asked whether he feels any remorse -a sure sign of incompetence at learning the rules of society, but such incompetence is surely not his fault. And the fact that the Messner expressed remorse after his detention indicates that he really didn't understand what prison really entailed when he was first asked and thus was operating without the working knowledge of consequences that most of us take for granted.

    Of course I will readily admit that at a societal level examples must be made of some people to keep those of us more capable of making rational decisions in with the fear of imprisonment and death at the hands of the state at the forefront of our minds if we ever get *really* mad on the freeway, for example. But this is a necessary evil, we shouldn't be *cheering it*.
     
  17. AlteredEgo

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    Come on, now. Let's be real. Our justice system is not about justice, and probably never has been. It's about revenge. That's how those boys got the scentences they got. It's good enough revenge. It was never meant to be justice.
     
  18. AndrewEndowed24

    AndrewEndowed24 New Member

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    I guess I agree, but there is one small inconsistency: why would our society feel the need to avenge a 'bum' if not for considerations of justice. Vengeance doesn't sound like the sort of think one does for a bum, one may feel that fair play requires something to be done, but that is based on appeals to justice. A desire for vengeance is an intense personal feeling, one avenges one's father or one's friend, but we only feel an abstract sense of responsibility towards the lives of the homeless (this abstract sense is what i would call justice) and thus vengeance -which is a personal and immediate desire not an abstract- doesn't seem like the right candidate for explaining the sentence...
     
  19. AlteredEgo

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    I only read that he was homeless. I didn't read that he was without anyone who cared for him. I didn't read that he was a bum. And anyway, there are always those who would seek vengeance on behalf of a homeless person. I would. I have. (Granted, not for murder or anything.) Additionally, the one thing justice and revenge have in common is the perception of fairness. Someone believes things are fair or being made so. So if no one prosecutes the murderers of a home guy, simply because he's just some homeless guy, but we continue to prosecute other murderers, someone is going to spot the inequality and complain that it isn't fair. I'm exhausted, and keep trying to sleep, but keep getting derailed. So here's my official disclaimer in case I'm not expressing myself well.
     
  20. D_Peacocke Rimplougher

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    australia
     
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