Pro Life v Pro Choice

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Act2_Begins_Now, Dec 15, 2007.

  1. Act2_Begins_Now

    Act2_Begins_Now New Member

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    Its been awhile since I regularly contributed, so I feel a little awkward about dropping this hot topic. However, after skimming a few threads, I found this from DG Girl (?)

    I think many people many actually stop to ponder this logic and make the connection. Its this logic that has me identify myself as pro life. I am not pro life, because I want to dictate my religious beliefs on you, but rather I have observed human nature and it always pushes the envelope. Having the right to aborting a few week old embryo will always lead to those choosing to abort a fetus that likely could survive out of the womb, if given the chance.
     
  2. D_Haole_Berry

    D_Haole_Berry Account Disabled

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    While its not as political a topic over here in Australia, I do find the debate interesting.

    In my mind I see a toss up between:

    End a POTENTIAL (but maybe not quite human yet) life or
    Force a family into POTENTIALLY undesirable lives.

    At this point in time I am pro-choice. Potentially ruining >1 people's lives is a sad thing, and I am not convinced that an embryo qualifies as a proper life yet, and thus its death shouldn't warrant the same gravity as that of a regular person.

    Plus pro-choice can go both ways (keep the baby or abortion), and giving people choice has always fared better in the past than forcing people to do something they don't want to.
     
  3. TitanicJake

    TitanicJake New Member

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    My heart tells me Abortion is wrong.
    I would never thrust that belief upon another human.

    I had a few girls in high school have abortions due to condoms breaking with me or me and them just being stupid and going bareback. The process sucked of the abortion sucked. I live with the guilt. Did I kill my son or daughter?

    Having a child and teaching children who were adopted, I can't see ending a pregnancy. In cases of rape or incest I feel the victum should have that choice.

    I just feel it should be a choice available for other people who are in different situations.

    Jake
     
  4. 36DD

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    I am whole-heartedly pro-life. I am not for abortion and I am not for the death penalty. I'm sure abortion is a difficult choice for most to make, and I am sure many feel valid in their reasons, it is just that my personal view is that since I believe in God, and believe God is the one to create life, it is his place to end that life.
     
  5. B_Hung Jon

    B_Hung Jon New Member

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    Wrong language to me. Pro-life means you favor life. Pro-choice also means you favor life. I think you should say anti-abortion. It's a false choice to me.
     
  6. unabear09

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    hey all. in response to pro life vs pro choice... for me i feel that since i have a penis and testicles, do not get pregnant, and do not carry a living human being inside my body for a period of nine months (plus or minus) i should stay out of the issue . this being said i feel like my opinion in the matter is mute. it is not my body, and therefore i do not have the right to decide wheither or not a woman chooses to carry a fetus/child to full term and bring it into this world. the only exception to this is if the fetus/child shares half of my genes. then, unless the child is to have severe mental/physical difficulties, to the point of it not being able to live an overall happy healthy life or the mothers life is in grave danger by carrying this fetus/child to full term, it should be carryied to full term. if the mother decides that she dosent want the child, then upon birth, full custody of the child should be turned over to me. sorry for the spelling :biggrin1:
     
  7. drzoidburg3

    drzoidburg3 New Member

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    How about Pro-Death?
     
  8. D_Claude_Crowsfoot

    D_Claude_Crowsfoot Account Disabled

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    woman's body, woman's choice...i dont see how you can deny that fact.
     
  9. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    I've known too many women who carry the burden of feeling guilty after an abortion. Most women do, and i think its for a reason that they feel that way. We are designed to carry the life in our body, thats why we most of us grieve the loss of a baby, even if in the first trimester, or by abortion. We are made to love and nurture that baby even prior to birth. To prepare a home and place for it. To let it suckle at our breast. Its so much more than just a bundle of cells that happens to be growing in your uterus. We are nurturers, care givers and affectionate by design. There is a reason why we have these feelings towards our babies well before they are born.

    After going through infertility, and having lost a baby, i truly cant be on the side of pro-abortion.
     
  10. Drifterwood

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    Personal experience and emotion can't be the basis for legislation forced on others. I think it has to be a personal choice that is supported by legislation. I.e. to have the right to make that choice. And I include the Father's rights which are normally overlooked as that area is just too complicated.
     
  11. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    Sorry i personally err on the side of life and babies. Just my personal opinion. Since i had a child, wanted her and loved her. Just the way i was raised and im fully content to feel that way. I dont go picketing in front of abortion clinics or criticize others. My heart simply breaks for them, and their unborn babies. I dont know how i could be who i am if i didnt have these opinions on the matter.

    Lets also keep in mind that my personal opinion on this doesnt legislate anything. The laws that exist for abortion are not in danger of being thrown out. Last i knew we were actually letting them be killed during the birth process. That tells me that my opinion doesnt really play a role in what is legislated or not at this point in the legality of abortion.
     
  12. Drifterwood

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    Pro choice people are just as compassionate.
     
  13. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    I think prochoice people are just more compassionate for the women carrying the child than the child itself. If it were the other way around, i dont think we'd be having partial birth abortion for reasons other than detrimental health issues for the mother or severe birth defects. The compassion is for one party here. I cant imagine having compassion for an unborn baby and sucking it into a sink. Once again, my opinion. My mind isnt going to change about it, nor is yours.

    I've had a dead baby sucked into a sink, how much more does it bother to me to imagine the live ones going in there. And sure, we can argue about when life starts. But im not going there.
     
  14. Drifterwood

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    At which point do you think of a foetus as a baby?
     
  15. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    I think its quite obvious what i think and why i think it. This is an argument that will exist until the end of mankind along with:

    Is there a God?

    Do homosexuals choose to be gay?

    When does a fetus become a human life?

    I am not a debater, but i do speak up when i feel strongly about something. Such as i have already. I really don't know how i can explain my thoughts on the subject any better than i already have.
     
  16. Drifterwood

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    My question is completely honest. My science isn't good enough to know when a foetus is sensory or cognitive.

    Nature herself is pretty tough.
     
  17. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    I think the real issue to me is that if science said tomorrow that babies can feel pain in the first trimester, laws wouldnt change, peoples ideas on the subject wouldnt magically change. Im not a philisophical person or some person who ponders the meaning of life, or how other galaxies centrifugal force is affected by the tides. I truly don't do debates. Like i said, i just jump in when i feel passionate about a subject, whether its about what lubricant i feel works best with a big cock or babies in the womb. Im pretty simple, not going to get into the semantics.
     
  18. Bbucko

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    BUZZWORD ALERT!!!

    The last time I heard the expression "sucked into a sink", and it was the identical verbiage, was on Dr Laura's radio program. She was moderately pro-gay for many years before deciding that we were "God's mistake".

    To the subject at hand:
    I am pro-choice for a very simple reason. I have a sister ten years younger than I who is severely developmentally disabled. Her speech consists of about 150 words, and most of those are barely comprehensible. She will never read or write, and has lived in a group home since the age of 17.

    Beginning at the age of 14 (it was later determined) and continuing for the next two years, she was sexually attacked by her school bus driver. She eventually made what was happening to her clear through increasing acts of self-harm, terminating in a fractured skull and the tearing out of most of her hair.

    It was only by some unknown grace (or brutal luck) that no pregnancy resulted from these attacks. Although equipped with the cognitive reasoning of a small child, her body matured in the same way any other teenager's would. She would not have been able to carry a baby to term (ceasing the meds alone would have resulted in unknowable trauma) except by force.

    If given the choice between abortion-on-demand for every woman in America or the denial of the right to a just medical procedure for my sister, I'll side with my sister, despite my ethical ambivalence to the procedure. Like any other medical decision, it should be between the woman (or her legal guardian) and her doctor.
     
  19. ManlyBanisters

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    I agree about the father's rights - it is a very very difficult issue because the father cannot carry the child to term, only the mother can do that - but I really have a problem with the fact that a baby outside the womb is the equal responsibility of both parents (i.e. in the case of life support being turned off on a child the consent of both parents is required in all juristictions I am aware of) but when that child is in the womb the father has little or no say in whether the child lives or dies.


    I don't distinguish between an embryo / zygote / born child - they are all equally human life forms to me - and therefore I would like to see a world where all human life forms are afforded the same rights. I dislike and disagree with the majority of the way the anti-abortion camp go about protesting though. I don't see the point in harrassing already distressed people outside clinics - waving banners with upsetting pictures and hateful slogans. I really don't think they are doing themselves any favours there.

    I don't really agree with the OP about logical conclusion - saying that one form of 'cruelty' logically leads to another is weird and is foisting a lowest common denominator moral value on to all people. I can wring the neck of a chicken I am going to eat with no moral qualms whatsoever, I am comfortable with trapping and killing pests in my house, or vipers in my garden - there is no logical follow on that applies those same morals to humans. There just isn't. Sorry, it's a dumb argument.
     
  20. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    Last i knew the process was like that. Maybe i've been mislead about it. You can believe what you'd like for the reasons you'd like, for the same reasons i believe what i do. Im not going against my feelings as a mother and a woman because of what anyone else thinks about it. Thats probably why i wont be a good candidate for an abortion. What people choose to do in their personal lives is their business, not mine. Last i knew, this was a post about feelings on the issue. I clearly stated mine. Is this another thread where we crucify those of us who are conservative, even if we dont hate gay people, or dislike them for that fact, or push our beliefs on anyone else? Because i think i've had my 12 rounds already.

    Also, im not insulting anyone here, and i love Dr. Laura. My mind was made up before i ever heard who she was. I think she gives great gay advice about coming out to parents and communicating with family who are not accepting of them because they are gay. I truly havent heard the God's mistake thing. Oh well, she doesnt counsel me on my abortion thoughts, but she does help with other pertinant issues i find pretty interesting to listen to. I had no idea we had a buzzword alert when someone famous/infamous says something and we say it too. Hmmmm...i guess i should watch out for any buzzwords in the future. Is their a glossary that explains this to newcomers so we know what the rules are before posting?
     
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