Pro Life v Pro Choice

[B_Italian1]

I also believe it is the parents' responsibility - but not every parent is a responsible parent. Are you saying that if the parents are unable or unwilling to give their children good information, that the children should just have to do without?

Well, what do you want to hold a gun to their head, or make it mandatory to graduate, like English, Math, History, etc? Children do without a lot of things, and school is not the place to be slipping condoms on bananas. But I do feel children need some sex education because of the crazy times we are living in--just how much is debatable. So I’m contradicting myself a bit here. Classes should be offered, and let the parents choose whether they want their child to attend or not. You cannot force parents to have their children learn any kind of morals they may not agree with. Reading, writing, and arithmetic are one thing. It’s no different than a crazy teacher trying to teach that the earth is flat when in fact it is not.

That's unbelievable, considering your next paragraph:You learned it from your peers, and it wan't always correct information? How would you know if it were correct or not?

It’s all trial and error, unfortunately.

Sure there is an easy answer. When I talk about "comprehensive education," that's precisely what I mean. You and I may have been curious and responsible enough to get the information we felt we needed, but we are in the minority. Part of the comprehensive model includes letting youngsters know that sex isn't dirty or something to be ashamed of. Embarrassed parents tend to raise embarrassed children, who will in turn raise embarrassed children of their own.

Again, you are dictating what you think parents should be doing. Some parents try to discourage their children from having sex by acting like it’s dirty or embarrassing. And of course they were doing the same things behind their parents backs. It’s not right but we can’t tell every parent on the planet what to do.

Eventually, if several consecutive generations are taught comprehensively, parents will be no more embarrassed to teach their children what they need to know about sex, than they would be helping a child with a math problem.

It’s sounds like an awesome idea.

Part of the problem with your "liberal" friend could be that she didn't really know the difference between "liberal parenting" and "permissive parenting." Subtle, but important.

She made the same mistake when she was a teen, and now her daughter did the same thing, twice. Let's see how her daughter's children turn out.

But you still have not addressed my question to you: given that children will make some decisions for themselves, in opposition to what they have been told, who is more likely to make better decisions?

I would hope that knowledge would be empowering to them, but children are extremely unpredictable.

I never claimed that education will prevent bad decisions, but I do claim that education will reduce the number of bad decisions, and will help those who make bad decisions to deal with the consequences.

We can only hope.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Well, what do you want to hold a gun to their head, or make it mandatory to graduate, like English, Math, History, etc?
<...>
You cannot force parents to have their children learn any kind of morals they may not agree with. Reading, writing, and arithmetic are one thing. It’s no different than a crazy teacher trying to teach that the earth is flat when in fact it is not.

Yes, it should be mandatory for graduation.

And your comment about teaching morals is telling. Funny thing, the parents who demand an "abstinence only" generally demand that the school teaches morals - and it's usually fundamental christian morals that they want taught. What I advocate is not so much teaching morals, really... no more than teaching a biology class is teaching morals. I repeat, I think a comprehensive human sexuality education should be comprehensive. Not teaching "this is right, that is wrong", but something a little more factual and neutral. It can be done.

Again, you are dictating what you think parents should be doing. Some parents try to discourage their children from having sex by acting like it’s dirty or embarrassing. And of course they were doing the same things behind their parents backs. It’s not right but we can’t tell every parent on the planet what to do.

Of course there are things parents should be doing; that's not so hard to figure out.

It's my opinion that parents should ensure that their children have a nutritional diet and (at least) moderate exercise. I can't force them to do it. I think they should provide clean, well-fitting clothing for their children. I can't force them to do that, either. And I think that they should do everything in their power to ensure that their children have the tools and resources to live a healthy life and make informed decisions. I can't force the parents to do that, nor can they always force their children to.

You can argue the one other point until you are blue in the face, but you will NEVER convince me that educated children will not tend to make better decisions.

 

[Gillette]

How about if I said "saving some from the horror"?

Finally an end to the tap dancing.

"saving some from the horror" of remembrance and regret, forcing a real and present horror for others. Not an acceptable trade.