Pro Life v Pro Choice

[ShowOff]

we really need to cut to the chase and debate when does life begin? Its easy to refute any of these pro-life statements by saying its not a life until the baby can sustain life on its own, outside of the womb. Until then its only a piece of tissue, no different than having an organ removed.

so please, continue.....

 

[tiff86]

we really need to cut to the chase and debate when does life begin? Its easy to refute any of these pro-life statements by saying its not a life until the baby can sustain life on its own, outside of the womb. Until then its only a piece of tissue, no different than having an organ removed.

so please, continue.....

Everyone always asks that question about when does life start and all that but I think how can one person tell another person what to do with the inside of their own body? I mean I guess we should have a time limit cuz you can make a decision w/o waiting till the last second but I don't see how you can tell someone what to do w/their own insides. I guess I think it doesn't matter when life starts it's still her body. Oh and maybe I'm wrong but in America we have a census every 10 yrs and if the baby is still inside the mom it doesn't count! Ugh I just get annoyed everyone trying to tell other people what to do w/themselves. It's their choice! :smile:

 

[Not_Punny]

I completely agree with SLB.

Quality of life is important. Once you become pregnant, your whole life changes... and you completely lose the ability to "pursue happiness" because you are obligated for the next 16 - 18 years to put another human being first.

If you haven't completed your education, and if you don't have a secure (AND WILLING) partner in raising the child -- yikes!!! Been there, done that.

What made it livable for me was that I adored my kids and for the most part I had a supporting family.

But still, life was difficult, and I had to give up "pursuit of happiness" and my own goals and dreams for most of my adult life. Luckily I've got a lot of life still ahead of me, I'm still looking good, and I'm finally getting to do the stuff that I intended to do with my life.

 

[Drifterwood]

But whose choice is it really? The choice and the voice is taken away from the one who cannot speak and therefor made forever silent.

I want someone to tell me when a foetus is sensory and conscious to the point of being human. None of the lifers seem to want to tell me this. I can therefore only conclude that some people's opinions (and they are entitled to them) are based upong something other than human ethics. We can not decide social behaviour on religious dogma. If you want that, then don't complain about Sharia law.

 

[Not_Punny]

And now for my MAIN response to this thread:


Banning abortions does NOT reduce abortions.

In all of Latin America and South America except Cuba, abortions are illegal -- yet there are 3.9 MILLION abortions per year in these areas, with hundreds of thousands of women maimed or dead due to "back-alley" abortions.

Some women are even "incarcerated" in hospitals waiting for death (themselves or the child, whoever dies first) due to ectopic pregnancies -- that's when a fertilized egg lodges in a fallopian tube -- because doctors are forbidden to operate until someone is dead (the woman or the child).

- - - - - -

The real problem is access to effective birth control.

In Latin countries, birth control is frowned upon and hard to get.

In America, unwanted pregnancies occur among populations where birth control is hard to get or where sex education is suppressed.

Let's face it, we'd be FAR better off if we:

a) Ignored all those religious/moralizing assholes who decry, block and legislate against sex education and easy-to-obtain birth control.

b) Pump billions of dollars into research for more effective birth control, including more choices for men, other than just condoms.

So, legislators are legislating in the WRONG direction!!!

 

[36DD]

I want someone to tell me when a foetus is sensory and conscious to the point of being human. None of the lifers seem to want to tell me this. I can therefore only conclude that some people's opinions (and they are entitled to them) are based upong something other than human ethics. We can not decide social behaviour on religious dogma. If you want that, then don't complain about Sharia law.

I don't have the facts (science) on that to give you an answer right now, but I will be more than happy to find out for you if you really want that information...may take a few days...

 

[tiff86]

Yeah that was an awesome post I agree w/everything there. Thanks hotmilf!

And now for my MAIN response to this thread:


Banning abortions does NOT reduce abortions.

In all of Latin America and South America except Cuba, abortions are illegal -- yet there are 3.9 MILLION abortions per year in these areas, with hundreds of thousands of women maimed or dead due to "back-alley" abortions.

Some women are even "incarcerated" in hospitals waiting for death (themselves or the child, whoever dies first) due to ectopic pregnancies -- that's when a fertilized egg lodges in a fallopian tube -- because doctors are forbidden to operate until someone is dead (the woman or the child).

- - - - - -

The real problem is access to effective birth control.

In Latin countries, birth control is frowned upon and hard to get.

In America, unwanted pregnancies occur among populations where birth control is hard to get or where sex education is suppressed.

Let's face it, we'd be FAR better off if we:

a) Ignored all those religious/moralizing assholes who decry, block and legislate against sex education and easy-to-obtain birth control.

b) Pump billions of dollars into research for more effective birth control, including more choices for men, other than just condoms.

So, legislators are legislating in the WRONG direction!!!

 

[B_Monster]

Its the woman body, it should be her choice.

 

[Mr. Snakey]

The vaccum cleaner is used to suck the baby out and then the baby is stabbed in the head.

 

[Ethyl]

Perhaps the "pro-lifers" mentioned above adhere to a belief that we are all sinners, born in sin, and somehow the unborn have not yet sinned. It's easier to believe in the death penalty for sinners, isn't it?

And that explains me being pro life and pro death penalty.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god". Romans 3:23

If we're going to drag religion (Christianity) into this, then we should remember exactly what is said in scripture. This verse makes no distinction between fetus and adult.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Often times in the US it seems that the same groups who are anti-choice are also anti-birth control and anti-sex education.

 

[jorpollew]

If men ran the risk of getting pregnant, there would never, ever be a law enforcing them to carry a baby for 9 months. Men will always insure their freedom to choose what they want to do with their bodies.

Quite fairly: It is the woman's body, and so it should be her choice.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

The vaccum cleaner is used to suck the baby out and then the baby is stabbed in the head.

Citation please.

Most abortions* are D and C

I'm pro-life too, man - but that kind of language and abuse of the scientific facts just detracts from any rational debate.

* Western world abortions tend to be up to or around the 12 week mark - 14 week and less abortions are normally effected by this procedure as far as I understand. That is what I am basing my statement on.

 

[Not_Punny]

.... (oops wasn't ready)

 

[36DD]

Often times in the US it seems that the same groups who are anti-choice are also anti-birth control and anti-sex education.

I am not anti-birth control (I've always been on the pill except for when I wanted to conceive) and I am not anti-sex education...I wish more people were informed so unwanted pregnancies could be avoided.

 

[Drifterwood]

.... (oops wasn't ready)

I haven't heard that excuse before

 

[Not_Punny]

Here are the facts on USA abortions according to Wikipedia (Wikipedia's data was in an easy-to-read pie chart which is why I'm attaching it)

Same chart (trying to get the image to DISPLAY in this message...)

ALSO.... in the US, we have 1.37 million abortions per year, which is 2.97% of worldwide abortions -- 46 million per year (this number is estimated because many abortions are not reported).

 

[whatireallywant]

I am not anti-birth control (I've always been on the pill except for when I wanted to conceive) and I am not anti-sex education...I wish more people were informed so unwanted pregnancies could be avoided.

This is a better pro-life way to be than most I know, who would condemn women for making a different decision than they themselves would. Although I am most definitely pro-choice (and have personal experience), the best thing would be if no woman got pregnant unless she wanted to be. That would be the ideal and would satisfy both sides. The only people who wouldn't be satisfied would be the ones who want to force women to get pregnant whether they want to be or not. And those are just crazy!

 

[ManlyBanisters]

The only people who wouldn't be satisfied would be the ones who want to force women to get pregnant whether they want to be or not. And those are just crazy!

Yes - commonly known as most women's mothers

 

[Mr. Snakey]

Citation please.

Most abortions* are D and C

I'm pro-life too, man - but that kind of language and abuse of the scientific facts just detracts from any rational debate.

* Western world abortions tend to be up to or around the 12 week mark - 14 week and less abortions are normally effected by this procedure as far as I understand. That is what I am basing my statement on.

I was talking 3rd term. They stopped it. Get informed and get some manners. History................D