Problems with Straight Guys

[SpeedoGuy]

Originally posted by GoneA@Oct 3 2005, 04:41 AM
YES, you must be my long-lost twin brother!!! I feel/act the same way that you do. I really don't watch TV, at all. I don't keep track of sport stats or trivia or really sports at all for that matter. Thus, I've noticed that most of the people I can engage in intellectual conversations with are either women or gay men.

The same for me.

So, then, welcome to LPSG. You'll find all types of interesting, intelligent discussions here and I think you'll enjoy being a part of the community. Threads can occasionally get testy here but I've found that the vast majority of discussions here will stimulate your mind.

SG

 

[GoneA]

Originally posted by SpeedoGuy+Oct 4 2005, 02:36 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpeedoGuy &#064; Oct 4 2005, 02:36 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-GoneA@Oct 3 2005, 04:41 AM
YES, you must be my long-lost twin brother&#33;&#33;&#33; I feel/act the same way that you do. I really don&#39;t watch TV, at all. I don&#39;t keep track of sport stats or trivia or really sports at all for that matter. Thus, I&#39;ve noticed that most of the people I can engage in intellectual conversations with are either women or gay men.

The same for me.

So, then, welcome to LPSG. You&#39;ll find all types of interesting, intelligent discussions here and I think you&#39;ll enjoy being a part of the community. Threads can occasionally get testy here but I&#39;ve found that the vast majority of discussions here will stimulate your mind.

SG

[post=348605]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Exactly, I&#39;ve been on LPSG, give or take, a month and I&#39;ve already come to that very same conclusion. Very stimulating site...esp. the ‘et cetera, et cetera’ section.

 

[GoneA]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Oct 3 2005, 06:13 AM
GoneA, that&#39;s the cool thing about making friends with people who are very different from us. When I first got into sales, I was surrounded by two types of people, male type As and then the other people who didn&#39;t sell, whether they were men or women. I didn&#39;t meet sucessful women for several months. I had to learn to understand how these driven men thought and it was pretty interesting, I learned a lot. They were open to talking to me because as a woman I wasn&#39;t seen as a threat. When I became somewhat sucessful, they still wouldn&#39;t confront me, they would sulk. They would go behind my back and whine to my boss. Eventually my boss asked me to stop reporting my sales on the blackboard because it was making the men feel bad&#33; He was a bad leader.

I did meet several men who taught me the concept of competing with instead of competing against, and those lessons have been invaluable to me. In my personal experience, I have met mostly what you describe, a few straight men who could communicate openly but mostly women and gay men. I know that my personal experiences may not be representative of the whole population because I live in a pretty conservative area, but it&#39;s probably fairly true of my own area at least. I do find more younger men who are good communicators than men my own age or older, so I think things are heading in the right direction, but not fast enough for my taste.

[post=348369]Quoted post[/post]​

WOW, that&#39;s actually quite interesting. It&#39;s horrible that you had to &#39;die a little inside&#39; to refrain from hurting the oh-so tender male ego.

Yes, I must say, that younger men seem to be better communicators than older men. Yet, that tends to be very subjective; because, I&#39;ve met younger men who couldn&#39;t walk a straight line without the use of map. I&#39;ve also met older men who could give Einstein a run for his money. Overall, contrary to your own opinion, things don&#39;t seem to be getting better...despite what the Beatles say.

Although I desperately wish I shared your perspective. I really do.

 

[madame_zora]

Well, there&#39;s probably more to it than just believing that the world is changing, although I do believe that to an extent. With me, if I&#39;m involved with a younger man in either a business or personal situation, the balance of power is pretty obviously on my side. If a guy&#39;s 20 years younger than me, the likelihood of him pulling some ego crap on me is fairly small because it&#39;s understood that I would be the "older and wiser" one. Although older doesn&#39;t always mean wiser, socially men are more apt to accept that concept than with a woman who is their peer. A young guy who might be very respectful to me might still be a shit to his 20 year old girlfriend, but I don&#39;t get to see how he treats her, so I don&#39;t know.

I think the KIND of younger men I&#39;ve been meeting has a lot to do with it too. If I&#39;m spending time with more artist and musician types, they just seem to less naturally aggressive. For whatever reason, it&#39;s just easier to find younger ones than older ones. There are men my age and older who don&#39;t view their life as a series of challenges against other men, but they are not plentiful. When I find a guy who has bothered to keep himself looking attractive, doesn&#39;t see me as a threat, prizes intellectually stimulating conversation, has a looong list of stories of adventure accumulated, has a high sex drive and big dick, it will be all over. If he has a sense of humor, I&#39;m done. Fortunately, I think I&#39;ll have an easier time locating a unicorn. I&#39;m going to be single for a very long time.

 

[BruceSter]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Oct 4 2005, 06:34 AM
Well, there&#39;s probably more to it than just believing that the world is changing, although I do believe that to an extent. With me, if I&#39;m involved with a younger man in either a business or personal situation, the balance of power is pretty obviously on my side. If a guy&#39;s 20 years younger than me, the likelihood of him pulling some ego crap on me is fairly small because it&#39;s understood that I would be the "older and wiser" one. Although older doesn&#39;t always mean wiser, socially men are more apt to accept that concept than with a woman who is their peer. A young guy who might be very respectful to me might still be a shit to his 20 year old girlfriend, but I don&#39;t get to see how he treats her, so I don&#39;t know.

[post=348721]Quoted post[/post]​

Hi Madame,

the age difference between me and my lady friend is pretty much as you say in your example, almost 20 years, but there&#39;s no clear leading role. The "command decisions", as my Dad would put it, are shared pretty evenly between the two of us. Usually I take the leading role when we go out for dinner, or to a party - the problem with the age difference is that a reluctant behavior would make her be considered like my mother or aunt, and she doesn&#39;t want that. She can handle being led into the room by her 20-years-younger lover, but it&#39;d be against both of our convictions to be considered as somehing like a pseudo mother/son couple.

Bruce

 

[spl98006]

Originally posted by HungSpermBoy@Oct 3 2005, 12:02 AM
I don&#39;t know what to say.First thing, I feel really good that Madame,Dee,Speedoguy,GoneA,Rich and other people here understand what I&#39;m saying.Sometimes I think that I&#39;m pretty alone in these feelings about being a different kind of guy.I&#39;m lucky that I have a sweet girl friend & my best buddy. Now I feel lucky to have you all too on this site.You really seem to know what&#39;s going on inside me.Thanks. :loveya:

[post=348373]Quoted post[/post]​

Wow, Jeff.

Even though I just discovered LPSG over the weekend, I already feel like I know you. Seriously, what you&#39;ve been saying here sounds so much like some thoughts that I wrote in my journal when I was about your age that I had to go pull them out of the box to re-read them.

Since I&#39;m new here, I should probably give you a little background. I only dated women the first 27 years of my life, and never really hung out with gay people until just before I came out at 28. To this day, most of my friends are straight, and I spend roughly equal amounts of time in straight and gay social settings.

The way I have come to think of it is that straight social norms, both male-male interaction and male-female, remind me a lot of the standard "QWERTY" typewriter keyboard. Seriously. My grandmother was a secretary for 45 years, taught me how to touch-type at age 8, and told me that the keyboard was originally designed to slow things down, so fast typists wouldn&#39;t jam the old manual typewriters.

For most of our society&#39;s history, there was no reasonably reliable birth control, so social norms developed to slow down human instinct for getting together and procreating like rabbits.

In the gay world, social norms work in just the opposite way. Historically (especially pre-internet), it has been very difficult for gay men to meet each other. On those rare occasions when gay men would meet, hey would have to take care of business quickly and discretely, lest they be caught. So the prevailing social norms work more in favor of making interactions and bonding (both friendship and sexual) as fluent as possible.

P.S. I know I sent you an email about this, too, while I was waiting for my membership to get approved. I apologize if I violated any LPSG etiquette, since some people seem to be offended by receiving messages from new members. I guess your post overwhelmed me a little, and I just wanted to let you know how I felt.

 

[GoneA]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Oct 4 2005, 01:34 PM
Well, there&#39;s probably more to it than just believing that the world is changing, although I do believe that to an extent. With me, if I&#39;m involved with a younger man in either a business or personal situation, the balance of power is pretty obviously on my side. If a guy&#39;s 20 years younger than me, the likelihood of him pulling some ego crap on me is fairly small because it&#39;s understood that I would be the "older and wiser" one. Although older doesn&#39;t always mean wiser, socially men are more apt to accept that concept than with a woman who is their peer. A young guy who might be very respectful to me might still be a shit to his 20 year old girlfriend, but I don&#39;t get to see how he treats her, so I don&#39;t know.

I think the KIND of younger men I&#39;ve been meeting has a lot to do with it too. If I&#39;m spending time with more artist and musician types, they just seem to less naturally aggressive. For whatever reason, it&#39;s just easier to find younger ones than older ones. There are men my age and older who don&#39;t view their life as a series of challenges against other men, but they are not plentiful. When I find a guy who has bothered to keep himself looking attractive, doesn&#39;t see me as a threat, prizes intellectually stimulating conversation, has a looong list of stories of adventure accumulated, has a high sex drive and big dick, it will be all over. If he has a sense of humor, I&#39;m done. Fortunately, I think I&#39;ll have an easier time locating a unicorn. I&#39;m going to be single for a very long time.

[post=348721]Quoted post[/post]​

LOOOOVED THE UNICORN JOKE.....lol

I MUST SAY, NOW, I ABSOLUTELY SEE WHAT YOU MEAN. ABSOLUTELY.

 

[B_HungSpermBoy]

Originally posted by spl98006+Oct 4 2005, 12:31 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spl98006 &#064; Oct 4 2005, 12:31 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-HungSpermBoy@Oct 3 2005, 12:02 AM
I don&#39;t know what to say.First thing, I feel really good that Madame,Dee,Speedoguy,GoneA,Rich and other people here understand what I&#39;m saying.Sometimes I think that I&#39;m pretty alone in these feelings about being a different kind of guy.I&#39;m lucky that I have a sweet girl friend & my best buddy. Now I feel lucky to have you all too on this site.You really seem to know what&#39;s going on inside me.Thanks.  :loveya:

[post=348373]Quoted post[/post]​

Wow, Jeff.

Even though I just discovered LPSG over the weekend, I already feel like I know you. Seriously, what you&#39;ve been saying here sounds so much like some thoughts that I wrote in my journal when I was about your age that I had to go pull them out of the box to re-read them.

Since I&#39;m new here, I should probably give you a little background. I only dated women the first 27 years of my life, and never really hung out with gay people until just before I came out at 28. To this day, most of my friends are straight, and I spend roughly equal amounts of time in straight and gay social settings.

The way I have come to think of it is that straight social norms, both male-male interaction and male-female, remind me a lot of the standard "QWERTY" typewriter keyboard. Seriously. My grandmother was a secretary for 45 years, taught me how to touch-type at age 8, and told me that the keyboard was originally designed to slow things down, so fast typists wouldn&#39;t jam the old manual typewriters.

For most of our society&#39;s history, there was no reasonably reliable birth control, so social norms developed to slow down human instinct for getting together and procreating like rabbits.

In the gay world, social norms work in just the opposite way. Historically (especially pre-internet), it has been very difficult for gay men to meet each other. On those rare occasions when gay men would meet, hey would have to take care of business quickly and discretely, lest they be caught. So the prevailing social norms work more in favor of making interactions and bonding (both friendship and sexual) as fluent as possible.

P.S. I know I sent you an email about this, too, while I was waiting for my membership to get approved. I apologize if I violated any LPSG etiquette, since some people seem to be offended by receiving messages from new members. I guess your post overwhelmed me a little, and I just wanted to let you know how I felt.

[post=348782]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]&#092;


Hey SPL, I&#39;m not offended by anyone writing or emailing me, except stalkers&#33; I appreciate that someone is willing to share something with me. Thanx for contacting me. I&#39;m kinda naive in ways & am learning not to take stuff too seriously. I have an artistic g/f & she&#39;s always telling me to mellow out & just enjoy life. There are folks on this list who&#39;ve been real supportive of me, so I&#39;m happy whenever that happens. I&#39;ve met a few really caring people here.

 

[BetterThanAverage]

What a thought provoking thread. As a gay man, I&#39;ve come across many of the guys being discussed here. Closed off, uncomfortable with other men unless they&#39;re playing basketball or talking about bagging chicks, etc. I&#39;ve had a group of friends since high school (I&#39;m 46 now), some time before I came out. The group is mostly guys, some girls. All but me and one woman ended up being straight. We always hugged and kissed on greeting / leaving. Guys, girls, whatever. It was kind of an "artistic" group, to be sure. We&#39;ve picked up many new members since HS, still mostly straight. All of them, including our friend the firefighter, our friend the cop, our friend the construction worker (no, it&#39;s not the Village People), always greet me with a hug and a kiss. They know I would NEVER do anything "untoward" or anything that might offend them. Although I&#39;ve mentioned to a couple of them (the cop and the firefighter) that if they ever decide to swing the other way, I&#39;m first in line. They both were flattered (or so they said) and I know they told others about it. I guess what I&#39;m trying to say is, men aren&#39;t all like that. Some straight men are really cool, really in touch with their feelings, really comfortable with their own body and their own sexuality, and can&#39;t be threatened by closeness with another male, even a gay male. Some even treasure it. My friends and I, when we get together, talk about what&#39;s really going on in our lives, not about football scores. Not sure how I was so lucky, but I&#39;m sure glad I was.

 

[GoneA]

Originally posted by BetterThanAverage@Oct 4 2005, 11:09 PM
What a thought provoking thread. As a gay man, I&#39;ve come across many of the guys being discussed here. Closed off, uncomfortable with other men unless they&#39;re playing basketball or talking about bagging chicks, etc. I&#39;ve had a group of friends since high school (I&#39;m 46 now), some time before I came out. The group is mostly guys, some girls. All but me and one woman ended up being straight. We always hugged and kissed on greeting / leaving. Guys, girls, whatever. It was kind of an "artistic" group, to be sure. We&#39;ve picked up many new members since HS, still mostly straight. All of them, including our friend the firefighter, our friend the cop, our friend the construction worker (no, it&#39;s not the Village People), always greet me with a hug and a kiss. They know I would NEVER do anything "untoward" or anything that might offend them. Although I&#39;ve mentioned to a couple of them (the cop and the firefighter) that if they ever decide to swing the other way, I&#39;m first in line. They both were flattered (or so they said) and I know they told others about it. I guess what I&#39;m trying to say is, men aren&#39;t all like that. Some straight men are really cool, really in touch with their feelings, really comfortable with their own body and their own sexuality, and can&#39;t be threatened by closeness with another male, even a gay male. Some even treasure it. My friends and I, when we get together, talk about what&#39;s really going on in our lives, not about football scores. Not sure how I was so lucky, but I&#39;m sure glad I was.

[post=348866]Quoted post[/post]​

Again, that&#39;s why this thread is quite subjective. It really is all experience based; not true for every person. It just happens to be that most of the straight men that I&#39;ve encountered are not willing to travel down the many avenues that open up in conversation. These are, as I mentioned before, avenues that deal emotions and just higher levels of thinking. These &#39;travelers&#39; tend, in my experiences, to be women or gay men.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by BruceSter+Oct 4 2005, 05:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BruceSter &#064; Oct 4 2005, 05:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Oct 4 2005, 06:34 AM
Well, there&#39;s probably more to it than just believing that the world is changing, although I do believe that to an extent. With me, if I&#39;m involved with a younger man in either a business or personal situation, the balance of power is pretty obviously on my side. If a guy&#39;s 20 years younger than me, the likelihood of him pulling some ego crap on me is fairly small because it&#39;s understood that I would be the "older and wiser" one. Although older doesn&#39;t always mean wiser, socially men are more apt to accept that concept than with a woman who is their peer. A young guy who might be very respectful to me might still be a shit to his 20 year old girlfriend, but I don&#39;t get to see how he treats her, so I don&#39;t know.

[post=348721]Quoted post[/post]​

Hi Madame,

the age difference between me and my lady friend is pretty much as you say in your example, almost 20 years, but there&#39;s no clear leading role. The "command decisions", as my Dad would put it, are shared pretty evenly between the two of us. Usually I take the leading role when we go out for dinner, or to a party - the problem with the age difference is that a reluctant behavior would make her be considered like my mother or aunt, and she doesn&#39;t want that. She can handle being led into the room by her 20-years-younger lover, but it&#39;d be against both of our convictions to be considered as somehing like a pseudo mother/son couple.

Bruce

[post=348781]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


Eww, that would be icky&#33;

I like what you said about there being no clear leader, that&#39;s how I like things to be. My main objection to power struggles is that it is too often assumed that the man is the leader just because he is the man, and I can&#39;t accept that. The thing about younger guys is that they seem to care a lot less about power as long as they are getting laid, which is nice. Amoung men my own age, this is harder to find, or to be more accurate- I find out pretty early on that they were lying to me about it from the beginning. I can&#39;t tell you how many times I&#39;ve had very short term relationships where the guy turned into a controlling monster even though I had expressed my disgust with this type of behavior early on. I guess they think I mean "that OTHER guy&#39;s" controlling behavior, not their own&#33;

If I&#39;m with a guy of any age, I like to be introduced as his friend. I don&#39;t think I owe perfect strangers an exact description of the seuxal nature of my relationships anyway&#33; I am uncomfortable with "girlfriend"- I&#39;m no longer a "girl", I don&#39;t like "lover"- it&#39;s too personal. "Fuckbuddy" is nobody&#39;s goddamned business, so "friend" is the best option. People are free to draw their own conclusions and surely will. I remember one guy friend of mine introduced me to someone he knew that we ran into at a gas station and I heard the guy ask my friend "Oh my god, are you fucking THAT?" when he thought I was out of earshot. It was funny as hell. He didn&#39;t know I had heard him, but I joined in the giggling when they did the "high five" thing, so it was cool.

 

[GoneA]

Originally posted by madame_zora+Oct 5 2005, 04:27 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madame_zora &#064; Oct 5 2005, 04:27 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by BruceSter@Oct 4 2005, 05:28 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora

@Oct 4 2005, 06:34 AM
Well, there&#39;s probably more to it than just believing that the world is changing, although I do believe that to an extent. With me, if I&#39;m involved with a younger man in either a business or personal situation, the balance of power is pretty obviously on my side. If a guy&#39;s 20 years younger than me, the likelihood of him pulling some ego crap on me is fairly small because it&#39;s understood that I would be the "older and wiser" one. Although older doesn&#39;t always mean wiser, socially men are more apt to accept that concept than with a woman who is their peer. A young guy who might be very respectful to me might still be a shit to his 20 year old girlfriend, but I don&#39;t get to see how he treats her, so I don&#39;t know.

[post=348721]Quoted post[/post]​

Hi Madame,

the age difference between me and my lady friend is pretty much as you say in your example, almost 20 years, but there&#39;s no clear leading role. The "command decisions", as my Dad would put it, are shared pretty evenly between the two of us. Usually I take the leading role when we go out for dinner, or to a party - the problem with the age difference is that a reluctant behavior would make her be considered like my mother or aunt, and she doesn&#39;t want that. She can handle being led into the room by her 20-years-younger lover, but it&#39;d be against both of our convictions to be considered as somehing like a pseudo mother/son couple.

Bruce

[post=348781]Quoted post[/post]​

Eww, that would be icky&#33;

"Oh my god, are you fucking THAT?" when he thought I was out of earshot. It was funny as hell. He didn&#39;t know I had heard him, but I joined in the giggling when they did the "high five" thing, so it was cool.

[post=348949]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Hahah that was friggin hilarious.

I was once involved with a girl that would have nothing less than me introducing her as &#39;my girlfriend&#39;. I once introduced her, whilst being my girlfriend, as being my friend, and I never heard the end of it.

 

[Chicago_Swimmer]

To the initial question.

I agree and believe men in our society are fearful of being close to other men. Maybe a Victorian culture hold over?

Robert

 

[jonb]

Not Victorian. At all. More like the &#39;every man for himself&#39; mentality which has gripped America since the 70s.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Originally posted by HungSpermBoy@Sep 26 2005, 07:51 PM
I&#39;m starting this topic b/c I&#39;m feeling some of its implications on this site & in my life.

I&#39;m wondering if we guys who identify as "straight" are actually limited in our acceptence of ourselves and others, both women and other guys. This is what I mean: straight women seem to like other women, and they like men. Lesbian women seem to like women a lot but also like men. Gay guys definitely like guys and also women. But we straight guys just like women. We feel that other guys are competition & are not to be trusted. We only find our sole support in a woman.

So what is this about? Is this the cause of so many of our problems in the world? So I guess I&#39;m asking this. Are we straight men so alienated from ourselves and others, that we&#39;ve created this limited view of the world?

:freak:

[post=346805]Quoted post[/post]​

First of all, I think that -- as a general rule -- lesbians are more hostile toward straight men than any of the other combinations you&#39;ve described there.

I really disagree with the idea that straight guys only like women and scorn all other men. That&#39;s not what I&#39;ve observed at all. Even the outwardly competitive guys are really seeking respect from other men, as absurd as that may seem. Obviously straight guys aren&#39;t as expressive with each other as other couples are, or as much as women are at the platonic level. But that doesn&#39;t mean there&#39;s no support at all. I see examples all the time of guys helping each other out and exchanging advice, just not in really lovey-dovey ways. I wonder if you&#39;re mistaking the lack of open affection for alienation.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Oct 4 2005, 06:34 AM
When I find a guy who has bothered to keep himself looking attractive, doesn&#39;t see me as a threat, prizes intellectually stimulating conversation, has a looong list of stories of adventure accumulated, has a high sex drive and big dick, it will be all over. If he has a sense of humor, I&#39;m done. Fortunately, I think I&#39;ll have an easier time locating a unicorn. I&#39;m going to be single for a very long time.

[post=348721]Quoted post[/post]​

If you&#39;d just move to Socal like I asked, then you wouldn&#39;t have this problem.

:evilgrin:

 

[GoneA]

Originally posted by aloofman+Oct 6 2005, 06:05 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aloofman &#064; Oct 6 2005, 06:05 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Oct 4 2005, 06:34 AM
When I find a guy who has bothered to keep himself looking attractive, doesn&#39;t see me as a threat, prizes intellectually stimulating conversation, has a looong list of stories of adventure accumulated, has a high sex drive and big dick, it will be all over. If he has a sense of humor, I&#39;m done. Fortunately, I think I&#39;ll have an easier time locating a unicorn. I&#39;m going to be single for a very long time.

[post=348721]Quoted post[/post]​

If you&#39;d just move to Socal like I asked, then you wouldn&#39;t have this problem.

:evilgrin:

[post=349283]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


The beaches are awesome.

 

[B_HungSpermBoy]

Originally posted by aloofman+Oct 6 2005, 01:02 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aloofman &#064; Oct 6 2005, 01:02 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-HungSpermBoy@Sep 26 2005, 07:51 PM
I&#39;m starting this topic b/c I&#39;m feeling some of its implications on this site & in my life.

I&#39;m wondering if we guys who identify as "straight" are actually limited in our acceptence of ourselves and others, both women and other guys. This is what I mean: straight women seem to like other women, and they like men. Lesbian women seem to like women a lot but also like men. Gay guys definitely like guys and also women. But we straight guys just like women. We feel that other guys are competition & are not to be trusted. We only find our sole support in a woman.

So what is this about? Is this the cause of so many of our problems in the world? So I guess I&#39;m asking this. Are we straight men so alienated from ourselves and others, that we&#39;ve created this limited view of the world?

:freak:

[post=346805]Quoted post[/post]​

First of all, I think that -- as a general rule -- lesbians are more hostile toward straight men than any of the other combinations you&#39;ve described there.

I really disagree with the idea that straight guys only like women and scorn all other men. That&#39;s not what I&#39;ve observed at all. Even the outwardly competitive guys are really seeking respect from other men, as absurd as that may seem. Obviously straight guys aren&#39;t as expressive with each other as other couples are, or as much as women are at the platonic level. But that doesn&#39;t mean there&#39;s no support at all. I see examples all the time of guys helping each other out and exchanging advice, just not in really lovey-dovey ways. I wonder if you&#39;re mistaking the lack of open affection for alienation.

[post=349281]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


I&#39;ve met a lot of guys & most are excessively competitive with each other & don&#39;t really care about each other much. It seems to me that you are making fun of close relationships between guys; "lovey-dovey" "open affection", like it&#39;s an unmanly way for guys to relate to one another. To me your attitude is the problem. I sense a defensive quality in your words. It&#39;s a kind of macho style that exists in the military, where guys learn to kill others, mostly men, because they&#39;re the enemy, the "other", not worthy of respect or compassion.

I don&#39;t care about "open affection" as much as I do about a person&#39;s emotional intelligence. The question to me is this: do guys really care about each other in their hearts, not just how they express it in body language?

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Originally posted by HungSpermBoy@Oct 5 2005, 11:37 PM

I&#39;ve met a lot of guys & most are excessively competitive with each other & don&#39;t really care about each other much. It seems to me that you are making fun of close relationships between guys; "lovey-dovey" "open affection", like it&#39;s an unmanly way for guys to relate to one another. To me your attitude is the problem. I sense a defensive quality in your words. It&#39;s a kind of macho style that exists in the military, where guys learn to kill others, mostly men, because they&#39;re the enemy, the "other", not worthy of respect or compassion.

I don&#39;t care about "open affection" as much as I do about a person&#39;s emotional intelligence. The question to me is this: do guys really care about each other in their hearts, not just how they express it in body language?

[post=349291]Quoted post[/post]​

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I was NOT saying that this competitive, macho crap is good or justified. And I was saying that it&#39;s been my experience that most guys are NOT like that. I thought that my answer to your question was: "Yes, they do more often than I think you&#39;re perceiving."

 

[Kimahri]

I gotta admit, the more I read on this thread, the more interesting it gets.

Like I&#39;ve said, I feel I&#39;ve been spoiled because I have had some nice intense, yet nonsexual relationships with like minded guys.

I have encountered homophobic straight guys before and they are best left alone. I don&#39;t think anyone that comes here could really be homophobic with the nature of the site. Plenty of straight guys here are showing their wares in the gallery knowing that gay guys may be checking them out.

If I had any thing with straight guys to have a problem with would be the same issue I have with myself. The hyper competitive and aggressive way we CAN be around other males. I thought about this last night as I worked out with my personal trainer last night. He was a muscular strong guy and there was no way that I wasn&#39;t completing everything he had me do, whether I truly could or not. Alot of us seem to have that in us and I can see where it may become a detriment to our healths.