Proof National Health Care Works

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Phil Ayesho, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. Phil Ayesho

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    Interesting article naming the US towns with the highest life expectancy.... 81.3 years...


    What a surprise that out of 16 places named... 15 are suburbs of Washington DC served by the same handful of hospitals that serve the US congress, Supreme Court, and Executive branches of government..

    ALL of whom are covered by a Special, federal government only health care system with unlimited testing and ALL procedures, even experimental ones, fully covered... for serving or retired congressmen, every penny paid for.

    Ah, yes... when the government handles healthcare its always a disaster...
    I mean, what are you gonna DO with the YEARS it adds to your life?


    Wake up, folks. DEMAND that your government give you the exact same coverage it gives itself.
     
  2. pfisherking

    pfisherking New Member

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    Ahh...
    Just see how much health care costs when it's "free"
    pfish
     
  3. Principessa

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    I attended George Washington University for grad school and our school nurse/infirmary was George Washington University Medical Center. There was a separate student entrance and treatment was always quick yet thorough. I wish I had that kind of care now. :redface:

    I wonder what the life expectancy is for those who live in the much poorer Anacostia section of DC. :confused:

    When I worked for the NJ State Dept. of Education I had AWESOME benefits. Most state workers get good benefits but in New Jersey ours were truly fabulous!

    As a state worker in NJ with standard benefits, you are entitled to 5 rounds of AI - Artificial Insemination and 3 rounds of IVF - In Vitro Fertilization, all for FREE! Generic prescriptions are $6 while brand names are $10. Office visits, even to specialists have a $10 co-pay. Weight loss surgery such as lap band or bariatric gastric bypass is covered 100%.

     
  4. ManlyBanisters

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    Where does the OP mention it being 'free'? - a national health service is not free, you pay for it in your taxes. It just happens to be available to those who don't earn enough to pay a lot of taxes too.
     
  5. Pendlum

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    Ding ding ding!

    So why not still pay for it a different way and help out your fellow Americans at the same time?
     
  6. Phil Ayesho

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    Its free to congressmen because they do not pay premiums- they can not have their coverage stopped for missing a payment, because they don't make payments.
    Because DC area hospitals KNOW that every service provided will be paid for in full, they can afford the finest equipment and their doctors can focus on care, instead of the patient's bank account.

    Of course nothing in life is free.... but consider that even A SINGLE TERM congressman gets this coverage for life.

    The main difference between national coverage and HMO's is that with national coverage, the Doctor is not made part of the accounting process...the doctor's pay is not tied to how many tests he does NOT order...how much care he can REFUSE to provide.
    In national coverage, EVERYONE would pay, thru their taxes. OR thru a mandated premium...

    There would be MORE money on the healthcare system... and the govenrment would REGULATE a fair return for providers.

    For example- When my wife was in the hospital for two weeks over a busted femur and shredded femoral artery... the bill came to $111,000

    Looking thru the bill I was astonished to find that an aspirin... an ordinary Bayer Aspirin was charged at $18.

    That, my friend's is the unrestrained greed of making money on health care.
    Taking the most vulnerable of people who have no real choice but to seek care... and raping them for every cent the traffic will bear.
     
  7. Phil Ayesho

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    PS-
    but the simple point is that congressmen who say national health care won't work are being two faced fucks.

    It clearly works for THEM.


    The truth is that anyone will spend every dime they have, and every dime they ever will have... to stay alive.

    And profiting from this fact engenders price fixing, and obscene margins.

    20% of these obscene margins are spent in paying off congressmen to tell the people a lie about healthcare...


    And the poor don't get healthcare, can't buy insurance... why?
    Because your ability to pay tells the healthcare industry how much your life is worth... and they are only interested in treating people who have assests they can sell off to settle the bill.

    Like the evangelists who throw out donation checks for 3 dollars or less, because the labor cost of filling out the deposit slips makes the small amounts not worth the effort, the margin of profit too small.


    Managed Healthcare is now nothing but a method for the rich to suck every possible dime out of the middle class before they die..

    To liquidate middle class assests and transfer that wealth into the hands of the monied elite. ( who do not have to pay inheritance taxes when they pass the money on to their children...)


    Folks, this is one of the primary ways that the rich are getting richer and the middle class is getting poorer.


    And for the inevitable conservative sheep who parrot the 'entitlement' propaganda...

    National health care and Social Security are not 'entitlements' -- They are INSURANCE systems. We ALL pay into them. The money we get out is the money we are owed for paying in.


    PPS- now that de-regulation of money markets has led to a collapse of the market and the value of the dollar....you ever notice how you never hear any more republican rhetoric about PRIVATIZING social security?
    Jeez- aren't we all glad that THAT didn't go thru?
    That the government did not allow a select group of wall street tycoons to carve a profit off of money we pay into a retirement plan?

    that was a close one.
     
  8. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    ouch.ouch.ouch.
     
  9. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Phil... this is such a reach to connect the dots.... what about the other 85 out of top 100 places named that are within a decimal point. There are a myriad of factors in here. I cite it more too randomness of the federal proximity.

    But let's say you are right... just because 99.99999999999999% of us whom our taxes are being overspent for their great healthcare.... where's the money going to come from when we all have to pay for each other, instead of the politicians. Furthermore ....Phil...... let's again say you are right (which is still a big stretch)... just because it works on a small scale for probably less than 750,000 actually part of the "program", is going to work and work efficiently for 300 million plus.

    Wake up.
     
  10. Phil Ayesho

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    Wow- talk about stretching...

    Arguing over decimal points? 15 out of 16 at the very top is HARDLY a statistical fluke.

    In any laboratory on earth such a correlation is a grand slam proof.



    As to the notion that something the government can do well for a quarter million not being able to work for 300 million?

    Well. lets not bother with going into how ACCEPTING such a condition is essentially creating an small aristrocracy who are ENTITLED to a greater share of tax money for THEIR healthcare... for no reason of merit...

    Let's not even go into how its a violation of constitutional guarantees of equal treatment for all citizens before the law...


    Let's just examine the fact that you have no argument---you are just spitballing without a shred of evidence that your notion that good medical care can not be scaled.


    Let's see- it would be like suggesting that, just because government built interstate roadways worked well for ONE state doesn't mean that they would work well across all 50 states....


    Or saying that just because municipal water treatment works for ONE city doesn't mean it will work for ALL cities...'


    Its a silly argument on its face. Anything that can work for a quarter million CAN be scaled to work for everyone- that is the whole idea of growth in business.. scalability.


    People ARE paying for healthcare- one way or the other... but the way it currently works now is inequitable.

    We do not provide water only to those who can afford it... We provide water to ALL and so lower the cost to an affordable price.

    And the fact is that nations with the same per-capita affluence as the US- like Germany and France - provide national healthcare that works well and actually INCREASES their GNP.

    The only difference between their systems and ours... everyone pays into their... and everyone benefits.

    And in ours, of every dollar that goes into caring for your health... 60% goes straight into the bank accounts of investors and board members speculating on your mortality.


    I am all for capitialism... but there ARE things for which taking a profit is unethical and immoral.

    Water is critical to all... it should not be profited upon.
    Fire suppression is necessary and indispensable. There should be no one making a million dollars and stock options off of the fire department.

    And cancer is horrific enough, without there being a lot of money to be made off the suffering of the dying.

    Certain things we do, not for a percentage, but for the sake of humanity.

    We are NOT lemmings- suffering the boom and bust of our own natures and the drive of evolutionary pressures...

    We have the ability to rise above our instinctive avarice... and tell the invisible hand to piss off.
     
  11. D_Davy_Downspout

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    The savings come from a variety of things:

    1) Reduced administrative costs due to not having to deal with 15 different insurance plans

    2) Raised general health due to people being more likely to use preventative medicine

    3) Conditions among poor people no longer being exacerbated to emergency(read: expensive) levels, due to their inability to afford a doctor, and thus using ER's as one

    4) Reduced prices for equipment and medications due to massive gov't purchasing power....other countries already do this with pharmaceutical companies, however the US doesn't because we passed legislation saying the government can't negotiate drug prices. I shit you not.

    Anyhow, this type of system already works for every single other "first world" country in the world. Every one. They all rank above us in almost every metric you can measure a healthcare system by. And they all do it cheaper.

    I could offer the same advice to you.
     
  12. Penis Aficionado

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    Well said, Phil.

    We are living in a time when many people will eventually need an amount of health care, the dollar value of which is far more than all the money they'll ever earn in their lives.

    There is no other good or service in the world like that.

    There's only two things you can do with a good or service that costs more than all the money you have now and ever will have:
    1) You spread the cost out over society as a whole, so the rich subsidize it for the poor and middle-class;
    2) You treat it like most goods and services, and say that people get what they pay for.

    Our current healthcare system kind of tries to do both. It spreads the cost out, but instead of having the rich subsidize the poor, it's based on the relatively healthy "many" subsidizing the sick "few." But as more people live long enough to become chronically ill, and more treatments become available, that method no longer works. The "few" now outnumber the "many." So our healthcare system has to cut costs, by treating care like other services where you get what you pay for.

    But the vast majority of people believe that if the means to treat a sick person exist, that person should be treated. The idea that it should come down to ability to pay is repugnant.

    If you disagree with that, you're saying health care is just like, say, cars -- some people will drive Bentleys and others will drive Hyundais, and that's the way it goes.

    If you seriously want to apply that system to health care, then I suspect you're either rich, or you've never had a loved one get really sick.
     
  13. stratedude

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    It is a fact that the 3rd leading cause of death in America is DOCTOR ERROR.

    Knowing this fact, maybe having a health care system that is SOOOO bad that you are reluctant to even go would actually increase life expectancy???

    That is my official response to the argument in this thread...
     
  14. D_Davy_Downspout

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    Before you go, can you link me a source for that claim?
     
  15. stratedude

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    Let me look for it. In the mean time, I think the guy I heard it from is a famous doctor named Dr. Niles. He is a well known naturalist.
     
  16. D_Davy_Downspout

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    Didn't that seem like a pretty outrageous claim to you?
     
  17. Penis Aficionado

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    Doesn't seem outrageous to me, especially if under the banner of "doctor error" you include hospital-acquired infections.
     
  18. D_Davy_Downspout

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    You're both being silly because you distrust doctors. Though you may have argument for including hospital acquired infections as "doctor error", given they're mostly due to over-prescription of antibiotics.
     
  19. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    It is still vehemently absent where the original claim was proof that a Natl HC System works.

    The proximity to DC and a small percentage of the population under some Federal sponsored system (that is not carried by the individuals themselves, but by the rest of us) works? What happens when we all go on it. I'm guessing we'll have to find ~7.5B new residents that have to wait for their healthcare system, in order to pay for ours.

    Genius from the left.
     
  20. Qua

    Qua
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    Man, and I've been working at Starbucks for the health care. Now I know what I need to do.
     
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