Propecia Sabotaging Gains?

[MattBrick]

I read a recent thread about the use of DHT in penis enlargment.
http://www.lpsg.org/204422-my-dht-journal-for-those.html

Do you suppose that that taking Propecia (low dose Finasteride), a drug which blocks DHT, prescribed to treat and prevent hair loss, can in a like manner sabotage gains in PE?

 

[trackdude]

Don't quoute me but IIRC I've heard some real horror stories over at thundersplace.org, not only hurting gains but possible shrinkage and destabilized hormone levels affecting sex drive and sexual function for years in some cases. I'd stop using it immediately until you research further.

 

[Snakebyte]

blocking DHT? ffs, get off that stuff. Low levels of DHT can cause erectile dysfunction!
besides the fact that it only partially prevents genetically determined hair loss. malnutrition, lack of minerals can cause hair loss too.

never ever mess with your hormone balance or in other words: never touch a running system

 

[FuzzyKen]

Propecia was an offspring of the drug Proscar. Proscar was developed to treat male BPH. The main problem is that DHT has been made a demon when in fact it may not even be the predominating factor in or in and of itself even a legitimate cause of BPH. In several parts of Europe which as I remember includes Sweden and The Netherlands some research has taken place which is beginning to be a cause for doubt. Men with BPH were given high dosages of DHT and their hormone levels were corrected to what they should be. What happened in these studies was that the prostate gland did not grow but instead returned back to normal size. The key which is still under investigation and research to eliminate BPH may in fact not be the reduction of testosterone/DHT levels but in fact the increase of these levels to youthful normal levels and maintaining a proper balance. It seems that none of these men after treatment were developing adenocarcinoma at an abnormal rate either. This cast a second dark shadow on what we have been led to believe.

There are so many flaws in the current U.S. research as to almost make it a joke. The first thing that is casting doubt is that most HIV patients receiving high dosage testosterone supplementation for wasting syndrome are NOT growing prostate glands the size of a basketball and they are not contracting prostate cancer at an incredible rate either. This is a fact and it proves right there that the idea of demonizing DHT is a real problem. This has been done in the name of profit and nothing else.

DHT is an absolute necessity for male secondary sex characteristics. Need is not the word, it is the operative requirement.

My personal opinion of Finasteride is as an evil drug. It has a pronounced effect on the pituitary axis and the longer one is on the drug the more the odds increase for permanent damage. To correct the imbalance you are going to have to find an MD who is willing to go by the European studies and throw the U.S. stuff written and engineered by giant pharmaceutical companies out the window. The body is weird when it comes to DHT. It does not sense an overproduction of DHT and it does not have receptor mechanisms in place to sense abnormally high levels until one gets nearly idiotic in the dosage. At the same time it does have the ability to sense low levels. What the pituitary then does is to keep ramping up the testosterone production to compensate for the missing DHT. Remember that Finasteride cripples the 5-alpha-reduction of testosterone into DHT. So what happens is that a portion of the testosterone metabolites are increased to incredible levels while at the same time there is no DHT which the body needs for maintenance of secondary sex characteristics, libido, and a number of other things. The MD or the patient ends treatment with Finasteride and now what we have is testicles in warp drive with no balance. Now, because of the imbalance it appears we get monumental prostatic enlargement and a really bad hormone imbalance.

Male alopecia is a product of aging. I would suspect that over time we will discover that the same hormonal imbalances that develop with age also are a trigger for this as well. The reason we do not have the information is that nobody is going to fund research that would cause a decrease in drug company profits. They may have it, but it will be buried in a vault somewhere that nobody can find it.

My personal opinion is that Finasteride and Dutasteride to name a few are evil drugs and should not be used unless there is no other alternative.

With regards to ED and other subjects mentioned. A DHT level dropped by as little as 15% is enough to completely short circuit an erection.

I have severe ED. Mine was injury based and yet when my MD finally said OK to male HRT within one week of starting on replacement my ED had diminished in severity by about 50%.

Absolutely and positively a diminished DHT level will short circuit any efforts at PE via DHT supplementation.

 

[MattBrick]

Hi, thanks for your responses.
I don't think I said that I was taking propecia, and definitely not that I was attempting PE with DHT cream.

The question is, can taking propecia hurt gains in itself?
We are not supposing the individual on Propecia is also trying to augment gains with DHT cream. First of all, that would be stupid, but more importantly, that is why this is a seperate thread, and not asked in the thread linked above about DHT cream. It isn't a question about DHT cream, but about propecia.

Another thing, I wanted to mention to FuzzyKen, was,hair loss is not caused by aging. Some men are already very visibly losing their hair at 20. It does seem to be related to testosterone though, since we see women start to lose their hair after menopause as well.
The hormonal theory of aging (and anti-aging) in general, is controversial, kind of fringy, and chiefly promoted not by European physicians, but by thigh-master originator, Suzanne Sommers. That's not to say there aren't important insights to be gained from it.

One other thing to think about, is a lot of men taking propecia, order it from Indian websites, etc. They are not talking it over with doctors, don't have have insurance, etc., and certainly arenot going into a detailed sexual history with him, or being submitted to hormonal balance tests. They just order it because it is cheaper that way, and continue taking it because it seems to work to halt their hair loss.
Doctors by they way, don't usually do much different. A man goes in -"Yes, you look like you are losing you hair", he says, and writes a prescription (for name brand at 2x the price). The only difference is he asks a few questions, and if you are on any other drugs.

 

[Halo]

I've recently started on Finasteride (Propecia) and the ED reported is in 5% or less number of cases, there are many people which this drug works for. But there are lots of horror stories on the internet too that scare people away. For people who are balding, it's the only drug (along with Minoxidil) to work.

 

[FuzzyKen]

Remember that all the statistics reported in pharmaceutical detail sheets including statistics of negative side effects are written by the pharmaceutical giant. So far, with the few people I have known who have personally tried it, the problem level with this drug has been well in excess of the claimed figures. In addition, loss of body hair, problems with pituitary axis alterations and gynecomastia has been reported and this is in a relatively small sample. This alone makes me question the figures that I also have seen "published". The one detail I did in fact leave out was that in order to have male pattern baldness one has to have the genetics for it. If the genetics are not there you won't lose your hair period.

My maternal Grandfather still had a full head of hair when he was 86 years old just before his death. My Father had some loss, but was not totally bald at the time of his death. At nearly 58 I have some loss, but it has not progressed all that rapidly.

My Stepbrother unfortunately inherited the bald genes and he had very substantial hair loss by the time he was 35. I kind of felt sorry for him as the part in his hair kept moving farther and farther down the side of his head as the hair left.

As far as the use of Andractim or other DHT gel products I do not remember any part of writing this in any manner which would indicate an assumption that this was even in the picture in my thinking.

 

[MattBrick]

Thanks for the follow up Fuzzy Ken,
The paragrapah about DHT gel wasn't for you, it was for another poster. The Suzanne Sommers paragraph was for you.

P.S. Congratulations on your awesome hair.

 

[tross87]

bro bald is in anyways

 

[MattBrick]

bro bald is in anyways

Haha, thanks for the vote of support.
I think so.
I've got some hair right now, but I always thought if I lost it, I could pull off the Captain Piccard look.

 

[smartlee]

Ive been on Propecia 10 yrs it has halted all baldness my penis is still same size but i have noticed a very slight decreased sex drive but that is all the amount I cum has stayed the same too

 

[633923]

Propecia does affect penis size. Since man has a different degree of elasticity in their penile tissue, it would make sense that some men are affected differently than others. I used Propecia for 2 years and saw a pretty drastic decrease. Then I started using a penis pump to counteract the effects. It worked to some degree, but I found that the best thing to do was to quit using Propecia. Now im balding more than ever, but my penis size is back again and my sex drive is healthy. This is just speaking from personal experience, but I find that my penis is more important than my hair.

P.S. I started shaving my head recently and my sex life improved.

 

[MattBrick]

Ouch! Banned for selling penis pumps.