Puerto rico

[TexanStar]

What's your point? We should leave the United States Citizens that live in Puerto Rico in a perilous state?

It's a wonky, inaccurate question. Puerto Rico isn't currently in a hurricane-induced perilous state.

Puerto Rico is in a financially perilous state that's nothing to do with the hurricane. I do think that Puerto Rico needs some real solution for that because there is literally no way for them to self-recover from the crushing levels of debt that they are currently under. They are headed for economic collapse (and were on a path to economic collapse well before the hurricane). That financial situation does inhibit their ability to do the type of stormproofing that would be recommended for a Caribbean island.

I don't think we have a responsibility to come in and hurricane-proof their power grid.

 

[Industrialsize]

I don't think we have a responsibility to come in and hurricane-proof their power grid.

Thank you for clearly stating that you think it is perfectly alright to neglect the safety of these American Citizens.

 

[TexanStar]

Thank you for clearly stating that you think it is perfectly alright to neglect the safety of these American Citizens.

You're welcome.

 

[Industrialsize]

You're welcome.

I don't think we have a responsibility to come in and hurricane-proof their power grid.

DemcraTIC Platform on Puerto Rico:

"We are committed to addressing the extraordinary challenges faced by our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico. Many stem from the fundamental question of Puerto Rico’s political status. Democrats believe that the people of Puerto Rico should determine their ultimate political status from permanent options that do not conflict with the Constitution, laws, and policies of the United States. Democrats are committed to promoting economic opportunity and good-paying jobs for the hardworking people of Puerto Rico. We also believe that Puerto Ricans must be treated equally by Medicare, Medicaid, and by other benefits programs for families. Puerto Ricans should be able to vote for the people who make their laws, just as they should be treated equally. All American citizens, no matter where they reside, should have the right to vote for the President of the United States.

Finally, we believe that Federal officials must work with Puerto Rico’s local self government as laws are implemented and Puerto Rico’s budget and debt are restructured so that it can get on a path towards stability and prosperity."

Your statement does not comport with the beliefs of a center-left Democrat.

 

[Chrysippus]

Not to answer a question with a question, but what do you think is the Federal government's responsibilities with respect to public utilities?

Are you of the understanding that it is the US Federal Government which bears the responsibility to determine if and how electricity, potable water, or natural gas will be delivered to your property? Do you believe the Federal government has the responsibility for sewage and waste water removal and treatment?

Get down off your Christmas tree, fraud. You’re no luminary, not a star, but you are a bag of sonorous and pompous flatulence.

 

[TexanStar]

@Industrialsize Man your reading comprehension is so weak. Let me highlight stuff in your own fucking text.

DemcraTIC Platform on Puerto Rico:

"We are committed to addressing the extraordinary challenges faced by our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico. Many stem from the fundamental question of Puerto Rico’s political status. Democrats believe that the people of Puerto Rico should determine their ultimate political status from permanent options that do not conflict with the Constitution, laws, and policies of the United States. Democrats are committed to promoting economic opportunity and good-paying jobs for the hardworking people of Puerto Rico. We also believe that Puerto Ricans must be treated equally by Medicare, Medicaid, and by other benefits programs for families. Puerto Ricans should be able to vote for the people who make their laws, just as they should be treated equally. All American citizens, no matter where they reside, should have the right to vote for the President of the United States.

Finally, we believe that Federal officials must work with Puerto Rico’s local self government as laws are implemented and Puerto Rico’s budget and debt are restructured so that it can get on a path towards stability and prosperity. <--- CAN YOU FUCKING READ THIS SENTENCE? YOU BOLDED IT YOURSELF FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! IT'S NOT WRITTEN IN ARAMAIC! DO YOU NEED ME TO HIRE YOU A TUTOR?

I do think that Puerto Rico needs some real solution for that because there is literally no way for them to self-recover from the crushing levels of debt that they are currently under. They are headed for economic collapse (and were on a path to economic collapse well before the hurricane). That financial situation does inhibit their ability to do the type of stormproofing that would be recommended for a Caribbean island.

Look man, I'm sorry you failed whatever remedial reading courses your teachers might've tried to get you to take, but that doesn't create a delta between my view and the Democratic platform (which is in turn separate from the fact that even if it did differ, which it doesn't one does not need 100% agreement with their party platform to be a member).

 

[Industrialsize]

@Industrialsize Man your reading comprehension is so weak. Let me highlight stuff in your own fucking text.

DemcraTIC Platform on Puerto Rico:

"We are committed to addressing the extraordinary challenges faced by our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico. Many stem from the fundamental question of Puerto Rico’s political status. Democrats believe that the people of Puerto Rico should determine their ultimate political status from permanent options that do not conflict with the Constitution, laws, and policies of the United States. Democrats are committed to promoting economic opportunity and good-paying jobs for the hardworking people of Puerto Rico. We also believe that Puerto Ricans must be treated equally by Medicare, Medicaid, and by other benefits programs for families. Puerto Ricans should be able to vote for the people who make their laws, just as they should be treated equally. All American citizens, no matter where they reside, should have the right to vote for the President of the United States.

Finally, we believe that Federal officials must work with Puerto Rico’s local self government as laws are implemented and Puerto Rico’s budget and debt are restructured so that it can get on a path towards stability and prosperity. <--- CAN YOU FUCKING READ THIS SENTENCE? YOU BOLDED IT YOURSELF FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! IT'S NOT WRITTEN IN ARAMAIC! DO YOU NEED ME TO HIRE YOU A TUTOR?



Look man, I'm sorry you failed whatever remedial reading courses your teachers might've tried to get you to take, but that doesn't create a delta between my view and the Democratic platform (which is in turn from the fact that even if it did differ, which it doesn,t one does not need 100% agreement with their party platform to be a member).

"I don't think we have a responsibility to come in and hurricane-proof their power grid."

 

[keenobserver]

.
They ARE us citizens, no one denies. But the island is still a commonwealth today, not a state. Big difference. Puerto Rican’s had repeatedly voted against statehood in several plebiscites, until a reversal in 2012 during Obama’s presidency. That said, doesn’t preclude other initiatives to aid the island. Removal of corrupt, inept officials might be the first step.

I don't think Puerto Rico can get rid of Trump and his den of thieves on their own, but yes, they must try!

 

[TexanStar]

"I don't think we have a responsibility to come in and hurricane-proof their power grid."

 

[Industrialsize]

It's not THEIR power grid, they are American Citizens.

 

[286798]

I lived in PR in the late 90s. The people are wonderful. Some of the most genuinely caring people I have ever had the pleasure to encounter. Truly. My heart was breaking watching the coverage of Maria. Fortunately, all my friends and their families are safe. Having lived there, I'll offer that the government is overwhelmingly incompetent and/or corrupt at all levels. Bad. BAD bad. The infrastructure was a mess back then, too. Despite being wonderfully kind, the overwhelming attitude of "Meh, close enough" or "I'll worry about it later" is a huge contributor to this mess.

Here's the thing about PR... yes, they are US Citizens, but unlike residents of VA, MA, PA and KY, they pay no federal income taxes so the "(insert state name) is a commonwealth, too" isn't an apples to apples comparison. They pay (and receive) things like Social Security and Medicare, but not income tax. Granted, they have to pay import taxes on things that we don't state-side and a lot of things are just plain expensive there, so it's a wash if not a loss.

It's my understanding that the US Government doesn't receive funding from PR for things that my tax dollars would go towards, like infrastructure, defense, emergency response. Assuming that's true, then why would the US government be on the hook to fix it? I mean morally/socially it seems like they are because PR citizens are US citizens, but it's like not buying a homeowner's policy and expecting State Farm to pay up when your house burns down. It's a tough spot- balancing the needs of Citizens vs. if it's truly in the lane of FEMA/whoever to provide that response. I don't know what the answer is.

 

[TexanStar]

It's not THEIR power grid, they are American Citizens.

We don't have a fucking national power company. We are not living in a goddamn communist state (regardless of how much you may want us to be).

Please take 5 fucking seconds to educate yourself: List of United States electric companies - Wikipedia

 

[phonehome]

But then why is the federal governments "responsibilty/job" to come in and "hurricane proof" New Orleans?

Just because they were DUMB ENOUGH to start doing it going on a 100 years ago we are are stuck with this mill stone around our necks for "forever" ????

They are the people that are dumb enough to want to live BELOW sea level, a "sea" that is a block away and then are all shocked when the worst case (but quite predictable) scenario actually happened.

What is next some god knows how many billion dollar "drainage project" to include pump stations and sea walls if need be for Houston just because "people want to live there" ?

Next after that it goes to every major city in Florida, each getting turned into a part of chain "artificial islands" making the big parts of entire state "the keys"

But to the subject of the federal government and the power grid and any responsibility for it ever hear of the REA ?

 

[Industrialsize]

We don't have a fucking national power company. We are not living in a goddamn communist state (regardless of how much you may want us to be).

Please take 5 fucking seconds to educate yourself: List of United States electric companies - Wikipedia

And what would the federal government do if one of those electric companies, that serves 3.5 million people, was wiped off of the face of the Earth?

 

[TexanStar]

And what would the federal government do if one of those electric companies, that serves 3.5 million people, was wiped off of the face of the Earth?

Typically provide some degree of assistance to help restore it to whatever condition it was in prior to said natural disaster.

 

[286798]

It's not THEIR power grid, they are American Citizens.

Well, you're kinda right and mostly wrong. In PR, the ONLY utility is PREPA... a Puerto Rican Government monopoly. And like much of PR government, it was spending more than it made.
Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority - Wikipedia

And what would the federal government do if one of those electric companies, that serves 3.5 million people, was wiped off of the face of the Earth?

If it were stateside, the government would probably authorize another utility to use the wiped out company's T&D system. Kinda hard to do on an island.

 

[Industrialsize]

Typically provide some degree of assistance to help restore it to whatever condition it was in prior to said natural disaster.

That hasn't been done.

 

[TexanStar]

But then why is the federal governments "responsibilty/job" to come in and "hurricane proof" New Orleans?

The Federal government did not invest in Louisiana's electrical infrastructure to my knowledge.

The expenditures related to levies seawalls and such were and continue to be under federal jurisdictions (i.e. Army Corps of Engineers). Are you really asking why the Federal government maintains our coastline and ports of commerce?

But to the subject of the federal government and the power grid and any responsibility for it ever hear of the REA ?

The Rural Electrification Act of 1936, enacted on May 20, 1936, provided federal loans for the installation of electrical distribution systems to serve isolated rural areas of the United States.

I do trust you know what the word "loan" means.

 

[Chrysippus]

I do trust you know what the word "loan" means.

More sarcastic condescension from His Loftiness...

 

[TexanStar]

That hasn't been done.

Yeah it has.