PUMA's Retiring Hillary's Debt

[Trinity]

Sure, if the clearest way was to disregard a quarter million votes in Michigan alone. Wasn't it Hillary saying that every vote must count? Just because the popular vote count wasn't included in the information released to the public in the caucus states doesn't mean there was no popular vote. Sorry, but the rules don't bend to your convenience. Every vote must count, Hillary said it herself. And when we count all the votes, Obama comes out ahead.

You misunderstood. The popular vote includes Michigan and gives Obama the uncommitted votes and Clinton still wins the popular vote. Caucuses are counted as well. Hillary Clinton still wins the popular vote by the clearest way to count the popular vote.

'Fraid not. That doesn't account for this:

Does the truth bother you? Should those who do not share your views leave out everything that is not flattering to Obama concerning the topic of thread just because you don't like it?

Come on. Obama made public his committment regarding retiring her debt... its apart of the topic. And you suggesting otherwise just shows how much you want people to prop up Obama when the truth is told.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

RealClearPolitics - 2008 Elections - Democratic Vote Count

Notice how there's no difference between Obama's counts with and without Michigan?
If you count the caucus states and give those Michigan Uncommitted write-ins to Obama, or even just ~70% of them, (since he is the most likely intended recipient, as everyone else had their name on the ballot), Obama ends up in the lead.
When every vote counts, Obama wins. This isn't like the 2000 election. Gore clearly won the popular vote (barely). Clinton only wins this popular vote if you fuck with the numbers.
Oh and there's also the matter of this being old news, and the rest of the country has already proceeded with the campaign process.

 

[Trinity]

RealClearPolitics - 2008 Elections - Democratic Vote Count

Notice how there's no difference between Obama's counts with and without Michigan?
If you count the caucus states and give those Michigan Uncommitted write-ins to Obama, or even just ~70% of them, (since he is the most likely intended recipient, as everyone else had their name on the ballot), Obama ends up in the lead.
When every vote counts, Obama wins. This isn't like the 2000 election. Gore clearly won the popular vote (barely). Clinton only wins this popular vote if you fuck with the numbers.
Oh and there's also the matter of this being old news, and the rest of the country has already proceeded with the campaign process.

I'm well aware of the realclearpolitics counts. The count is based on the numbers from realclearpolitics. They have actually been discussed before here. This election is not like prior elections because there are major discrepancies between the caucus results and the primaries and what happened with Florida and Michigan. Caucuses are included in the count, however caucuses with primaries are not double counted to favor Obama. By the clearest count Clinton wins the Popular Vote including all states.

If you review past elections the Popular Vote is determined based on Primaries only. But including all Clinton still wins.

Hillary Clinton was able to win the Popular Vote because she stayed in the race and completed the full Primary.

 

[mista geechee]

So Trinity, simple question.

Who are you voting for and why ?

 

[Trinity]

So Trinity, simple question.

Who are you voting for and why ?

I haven't decided and after the events of this election, I'm not in a hurry to. There is still a question of the Convention. What will the Democratic Ticket look like...and the other Party's ticket. I will decide based on a number of factors, but probably not before November. A lot can happen between now and then. As it stands, Disaffected Voters are holding the Democratic Party to its principles, working for election change and not supporting a "selected" Nominee.

 

[D_Geffarde Phartsmeller]

Why the hell would a german-based clothing company pay off her debt?

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

If only...

 

[Guy-jin]

Does the truth bother you? Should those who do not share your views leave out everything that is not flattering to Obama concerning the topic of thread just because you don't like it?

Come on. Obama made public his committment regarding retiring her debt... its apart of the topic. And you suggesting otherwise just shows how much you want people to prop up Obama when the truth is told.

Actually, I just asked you to state, in a single sentance, what the point of your thread here is. So far you haven't done an adequate job of that, mostly because you aren't honest enough to admit your initial post was a snipe at Obama and Obama voters.

And for the record, I voted for Hillary. So get off the cross just because you're too stubborn to recognize that Hillary herself has backed Obama and that this is now our candidate.

You Hillary fanatics who can't stop trying to undermine Obama and who aren't going to vote for him are betraying everything she stands for. It's completely illogical and childish.

 

[D_Geffarde Phartsmeller]

You Hillary fanatics who can't stop trying to undermine Obama and who aren't going to vote for him are betraying everything she stands for. It's completely illogical and childish.

Dare I say...motivated by prejudice? In my experience, people that are so vehemently opposed to anything are often fueld by illogical prejudices.

But that's just my experience.

 

[Trinity]

Actually, I just asked you to state, in a single sentance, what the point of your thread here is. So far you haven't done an adequate job of that, mostly because you aren't honest enough to admit your initial post was a snipe at Obama and Obama voters.

And for the record, I voted for Hillary. So get off the cross just because you're too stubborn to recognize that Hillary herself has backed Obama and that this is now our candidate.

LoL, I told you what the thread is about in one sentence. If you took it as a swipe to Obama and Obama supporters that is on you. As I previously stated, it has been pointed out numerous times that Hillary supporters should help pay off her debt and they did. And the other part of the post was completely appropriate when Obama committed to aide in retiring 10 million of the debt and has not produced much in the way of that. If it's not flattering to Obama I'm supposed to suppress the facts so as not to UNDERMINE him?

You Hillary fanatics who can't stop trying to undermine Obama and who aren't going to vote for him are betraying everything she stands for. It's completely illogical and childish.

Undermining Obama? Obama is undermining us with his flip flopping on issues important to Americans. My vote is my own there is no way I'm betraying anyone by making MY choice for President. Hillary Clinton has a right to support whomever she wants and so do I.

 

[B_New End]

And the other part of the post was completely appropriate when Obama committed to aide in retiring 10 million of the debt and has not produced much in the way of that. If it's not flattering to Obama I'm supposed to suppress the facts so as not to UNDERMINE him?

Not flattering. Obama's supporters are cheap!!! They didn't give enough money to relieve the debt of a millionaire!!



Fucking whiny little bitches.

I hope you brushed your teeth after spewing all that bullshit.

Have you tried begging for Hillary? Maybe you can whore yourself out to help a millionaire pay the debts of her ambitions. I hear she likes to do it for corporations.

 

[Guy-jin]

LoL, I told you what the thread is about in one sentence. If you took it as a swipe to Obama and Obama supporters that is on you. As I previously stated, it has been pointed out numerous times that Hillary supporters should help pay off her debt and they did. And the other part of the post was completely appropriate when Obama committed to aide in retiring 10 million of the debt and has not produced much in the way of that. If it's not flattering to Obama I'm supposed to suppress the facts so as not to UNDERMINE him?

Undermining Obama? Obama is undermining us with his flip flopping on issues important to Americans. My vote is my own there is no way I'm betraying anyone by making MY choice for President. Hillary Clinton has a right to support whomever she wants and so do I.

Blah blah blah. You can't do it, can you? You can't actually summarize your first post in a sentance because you're too chicken-shit to admit you just posted it to stir the pot.

If you go vote for McCain, you are betraying Hillary. You can't argue with that. He stands for everything she doesn't. Barack may not be identical to Hillary, but he's a lot closer than McCain, and she's backing him.

People like you lost the election for Gore in 2000. Bravo.

 

[marleyisalegend]

Dare I say...motivated by prejudice? In my experience, people that are so vehemently opposed to anything are often fueld by illogical prejudices.

But that's just my experience.

AMEN. People who don't like McDonald's don't eat there, people who stage protests and boycotts have a vendetta. Obama must have really shitted in her Cheerios for her to dedicate this much time (however long it takes to cut and paste) to slandering him. She's yet to answer my question about who she's voting for and why, assuming that she is, in fact, voting.

 

[scarletfury]

Aaaaaaaaaarrrgh.

Best response EVER. I could not agree more.

 

[b.c.]

Blah blah blah. You can't do it, can you? You can't actually summarize your first post in a sentance because you're too chicken-shit to admit you just posted it to stir the pot.

If you go vote for McCain, you are betraying Hillary. You can't argue with that. He stands for everything she doesn't. Barack may not be identical to Hillary, but he's a lot closer than McCain, and she's backing him.

People like you lost the election for Gore in 2000. Bravo.

Well that's really the whole meat and potatoes of the question isn't it?

Why is it that the person who is more closely aligned with Hillary so repugnant to these people that they'd just as soon undermine his credibility than follow their candidate in support of him? One can't help but wonder.

Or perhaps they think that by so doing they'll help to lower his standings in the polls, damage his reputation, spread lies and innuendo to the point that questions will be raised by the time of the convention to his chances of getting elected.

Then they'll stage some kind of brouhaha at the convention in an attempt to get the delegates to switch their vote to Hillary and hope that the Democratic vote won't be so fractured it the process that neither will stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.

Visible Vote 08 PUMA Party: Hillary Clinton Fanatics Working for McCain

(Of course it WILL be certain death for the Democratic ticket because Obama supporters will feel betrayed if the delegates switch their vote... that "the system" didn't work for their candidate - with all the implications that'll go with that).

Given the nastiness of this Puma group I've become convinced that an Obama/Clinton ticket would be a disaster. (I used to be very much in favor of the idea but not any longer...call it a "flip-flop" if you'd like).

There'd be no end to second guessing his every move or decision, no rest nor reprieve from these people if they even stopped at that. Certainly they'd entertain the though of something happening to Obama and her taking charge. Who needs that?

Frankly I think Obama should pick Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.

 

[B_New End]

meh.

The last holdouts are angry suicide bombers. Very pissed, and very convinced in their little world of internet submersion, that they are somehow very powerful, when in reality, they are weaker than the Ron Paul movement.... which was weak.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

I'm well aware of the realclearpolitics counts. The count is based on the numbers from realclearpolitics. They have actually been discussed before here. This election is not like prior elections because there are major discrepancies between the caucus results and the primaries and what happened with Florida and Michigan. Caucuses are included in the count, however caucuses with primaries are not double counted to favor Obama. By the clearest count Clinton wins the Popular Vote including all states.

If you review past elections the Popular Vote is determined based on Primaries only. But including all Clinton still wins.

Hillary Clinton was able to win the Popular Vote because she stayed in the race and completed the full Primary.

So in other words, every vote must count except when it's not convenient to you. You're just like the Gore supporters of 2000. When the projections showed the reverse of what actually ended up happening, they were perfectly okay with it. We all know how they reacted when the tables were turned.
Also, interesting that you argue the validity of my source, even though that source has been used on here constantly, yet offer nothing reputable in return. Your source is an anti-obama-pro-hillary website that argues of "more-likely-than-not" double counts in two states. Sorry, I'm gonna trust the word of realclearpolitics over democratinexile.

 

[HyperHulk]

Just Say No Deal and all PUMA organizations banded together to aide Sen. Hillary Clinton in retiring her remaining campaign debt left from the Primary.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/20/politics/p122313D47.DTL

(07-20) 17:56 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton reports raising $2.7 million from donors in June and ending the month with $25.2 million in debts after suspending her quest for the presidency.


The former first lady owes $12 million to vendors and lent herself $1 million in June for a total loan to her campaign of about $13.2 million. She suspended her campaign for the Democratic nomination on June 7. Clinton aides say she is giving priority to paying back money owed to small vendors.


Clinton ended her campaign with more than $23 million designated for the general election. She is asking donors whether she can convert that money to the campaign account for her 2012 Senate re-election.

 

[Trinity]

Not flattering. Obama's supporters are cheap!!! They didn't give enough money to relieve the debt of a millionaire!! Fucking whiny little bitches. I hope you brushed your teeth after spewing all that bullshit.

Obama wanted the voters, their donations and Hillary out on the campaign trail for him. He made a very public "show" of Unity, but after the words there was little actual action or unity. You got the point...in fact you are making it for me. And whether she is a millionaire or not doesn't matter. Obama is a millionaire as well and she's not asking for her loan back.

Blah blah blah. You can't do it, can you? You can't actually summarize your first post in a sentance because you're too chicken-shit to admit you just posted it to stir the pot.

You make me laugh everytime you say that, the title of the thread states the point exactly. And I've already told you that LoL. Stir what pot? Whatever pot you think I don't have the right to stir or shouldn't stir because it could undermine bambino Obama...if the truth hurts then he just a poor candidate.

If you go vote for McCain, you are betraying Hillary. You can't argue with that. He stands for everything she doesn't. Barack may not be identical to Hillary, but he's a lot closer than McCain, and she's backing him.

My vote is my own. How I choose to vote betrays no one else. Everything the Democratic Party stands for is against the "selection" of a Nominee. Obama does not represent what Hillary Clinton stands for just because he is in the same party. Obama is demonstrating everyday just how a member of the same party can deviate from the beliefs and principles of party and progressive ideology to be the average politician. She stood against FISA, he went against his promise to filibuster and voted for a bill he was against.

Democratic vote won't be so fractured it the process that neither will stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.

The Democratic Party did that to themselves by propping up a weak candidate and subverting the Democratic process to do so. For this candidate to be deemed valid he would have to win the Nomination not be propped up and given it. The Michigan and Florida fiasco...Obama being awarded delegates he did not win. The farce of the RBC meeting with election results being fabricated and how Howard Dean and the DNC mishandled the sanctioning from the beginning, how the DNC rules and allocation of delegates was lacking and the American people were unaware of the lack of fairness in the Primary election process...

The Democratic Party created this problem and rejected every opportunity to correct their errors. The election had to be fair for there to be unity and validity for the Nominee...without it, the Democratic Party must prop up a weak candidate and fix the Nomination. Disaffected Voters who believe in the actual principles on which the Party is based do not feel supporting a selected Nominee is the way to take back the White House, nor do they believe in Barack Obama.

(Of course it WILL be certain death for the Democratic ticket because Obama supporters will feel betrayed if the delegates switch their vote... that "the system" didn't work for their candidate - with all the implications that'll go with that).

Really??? You mean Obama supporters wouldn't just support Hillary Clinton because she stands for everything Obama does? And they wouldn't just support Hillary Clinton because we need a Democrat to beat McCain and we need a Democrat in the White House??? They would actually rebel??? And they wouldn't have it?? You don't say...:33::33::33:

Clinton ends June with $25.2 million debt

(07-20) 17:56 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton reports raising $2.7 million from donors in June and ending the month with $25.2 million in debts after suspending her quest for the presidency.

The fundraising conducted to help Retire Sen. Clinton's Campaign debt discussed in the original post occurred in July.

 

[Trinity]

Sure, if the clearest way was to disregard a quarter million votes in Michigan alone. Wasn't it Hillary saying that every vote must count? Just because the popular vote count wasn't included in the information released to the public in the caucus states doesn't mean there was no popular vote. Sorry, but the rules don't bend to your convenience. Every vote must count, Hillary said it herself. And when we count all the votes, Obama comes out ahead.

RealClearPolitics - 2008 Elections - Democratic Vote Count

Notice how there's no difference between Obama's counts with and without Michigan?
If you count the caucus states and give those Michigan Uncommitted write-ins to Obama, or even just ~70% of them, (since he is the most likely intended recipient, as everyone else had their name on the ballot), Obama ends up in the lead.
When every vote counts, Obama wins. This isn't like the 2000 election. Gore clearly won the popular vote (barely). Clinton only wins this popular vote if you fuck with the numbers.
Oh and there's also the matter of this being old news, and the rest of the country has already proceeded with the campaign process.

Taking into account the double voting that likely occurred with caucus votes and the primary votes:




Popular Vote Total all sources (corrected for issue of double votes in Texas and Washington State who had both primaries and caucuses) including Michigan with all Michigan uncommitteds going to Obama:

• Clinton; 18,164,050. Obama; 18,159,480.

So in other words, every vote must count except when it's not convenient to you. You're just like the Gore supporters of 2000. When the projections showed the reverse of what actually ended up happening, they were perfectly okay with it. We all know how they reacted when the tables were turned.
Also, interesting that you argue the validity of my source, even though that source has been used on here constantly, yet offer nothing reputable in return. Your source is an anti-obama-pro-hillary website that argues of "more-likely-than-not" double counts in two states. Sorry, I'm gonna trust the word of realclearpolitics over democratinexile.

RealClearpolitics shows four ways to count the popular vote. With all states counted, 2 Vote Counts determine Sen. Hillary Clinton the winner of the Popular Vote.

I presented a Vote count that incorporates Michigan and the caucus votes without over counting for the states that have primaries and caucuses.

It must be assumed that those who went through the effort of attending and voting at caucuses would have also voted in those primaries. Thus, the primary results need to be reduced by the number of votes cast in the caucuses to come to the most valid data for the popular vote in those two states.
​

As I stated past elections go by Primary results to determine popular vote because of the nature of caucuses and the fact that popular vote totals are not tallied. Just the primary vote: Hillary Clinton wins the Popular Vote with all states counted according to RealClearpolitics.

If you want to argue that Michigan uncommitted was not included for Obama when he took his name off the ballot, then it could be argued that primary results should be used in Texas and/or Washington.