Queer Music Thread

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That clip reminds why I'm so sour on Blondie: they seemed unqualified and annoying whenever they ventured beyond the narrow confines of pop-punk/proto New Wave.

The Tide Is High, Heart of Glass and Rapture are all just plain awful, dreadful dreck. The only song that steps off their sweet spot for me and works is Call Me, which got heavy play in the Discos when new. But even though Call Me was both very popular (tied to a major motion picture) and very disco, it still had a few of the old-time Blondie trademarks (aggressive vocals, bits of French). Guess they're enough for me.

I've said it before in other threads: for whatever slender skills they possessed as a group (principally songwriting, IMO), Blondie should always be remembered and revered for inventing New Wave.

And, of course, they belong in this thread because they were HUGE with the gayz. :biggrin1:

Methinks you do not understand der Blondie.

Much of what they did was brilliant. I admit, when they were bad, they were awful. But that's part of being a band that took a lot of risks. Dis Rapture all you want, but they brought rap to a white audience in the way Sugar Hill Gang never achieved. In terms of being ahead of the curve, they were cutting edge. Heart of Glass launched them to superstardom so I can't say it was a bad choice on their part and, frankly, it's a great disco tune (if you like disco). The Tide Is High is another song I can't particularly stand.

My favorite Blondie albums are the earliest. I can't argue with their sound and ability during the early 70s. The later ones tend to be hit-or-miss with some basic pop tunes clearly cranked out to make salable albums. Beyond that, however, Blondie still took risks. T-Birds is a fantastic song as is Angels On The Balcony and Here's Looking At You. I even like Lerner & Lowe's cover of Follow Me.

Seriously, what other band would do show tunes, punk, new wave, pop, disco, torch, soul, big band, reggae, rap, calypso, swing, blues, and even (God help them) country? Not everything they do is going to be within their ability and I'd rather see them take risks than stick with the same old thing.

Their latest albums have had that same mix of brilliant and good, disappointing and dreadful. The last of the first incarnation albums gave us such beauties as Orchid Club, For Your Eyes Only (was to be the Bond theme for the movie but got bumped at the last moment by that horrible Sheena Easton crapfest), Danceway, and War Child.

No Exit was similarly hit or miss. The magic is still there if a bit more difficult to find. They're old now, Stein was nearly dead for over 10 years, and Debbie's been singing with Jazz Passengers. They've moved on to a different sound because their lives have moved on and I think, attempting an album that merely appeals to the 70s sounds would firmly place them among the desperate groups with nothing original. Like it or not, Maria is a fantastic pop song even if I caught them retreading that, "walking on imported air," line.

Ultimately, Blondie is Stein writing songs which may, or may not, fit his muse. Harry is a remarkable instrument. Her range is not great, her technical mastery, while improving over the years, is not deep, her power has diminished with age though it was never great to begin with. What Harry has is delivery. It's a lovely languid voice strangely dispassionate and mysterious yet lovely. Were it a gem, I'd call it the sleepiest of Kashmir sapphires. It's intriguing, very warm, and altogether fascinating. That she originally sang material completely unsuited to her voice gave Blondie songs an ultra-hip detached insouciance perfect for the too-cool set. I think Stein understands Harry better than he understands her voice; that she shines best when she's singing power songs that allow her retain that air of mystery. Ninotchka was a great movie and Garbo was good in it, but it's not what put Garbo on the map. Same deal with Harry. That doesn't make the songs which don't fit her talent their worst songs, it just means that Stein isn't writing for her voice so much as his ego.

All in all, Blondie does have a few gems here and there in their later albums. Some are horrible, certainly, but some are beautifully done and it's when Stein finds a song that makes Harry shine that they do the best.
 

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Methinks you do not understand der Blondie.

Much of what they did was brilliant. I admit, when they were bad, they were awful. But that's part of being a band that took a lot of risks. Dis Rapture all you want, but they brought rap to a white audience in the way Sugar Hill Gang never achieved. In terms of being ahead of the curve, they were cutting edge. Heart of Glass launched them to superstardom so I can't say it was a bad choice on their part and, frankly, it's a great disco tune (if you like disco). The Tide Is High is another song I can't particularly stand.

My favorite Blondie albums are the earliest. I can't argue with their sound and ability during the early 70s. The later ones tend to be hit-or-miss with some basic pop tunes clearly cranked out to make salable albums. Beyond that, however, Blondie still took risks. T-Birds is a fantastic song as is Angels On The Balcony and Here's Looking At You. I even like Lerner & Lowe's cover of Follow Me.

You rose to the bait: yay! :cool:

There is nothing I love discussing with you more than the hidden sublime in popular cultural artifacts. You and I share so much of common baseline of appreciation that the points of divergence make the whole exercise much more fun than it would be otherwise.

We've been at the Blondie rodeo a few times before, you and I. And you've pried open a corner of my mind to the possibility of a greater, better, bigger Blondie than I remember experiencing the first time around or that is plainly self-evident on return listening. There is, indeed, a lyrical quality to Debbie Harry's voice that is her secret weapon: so sweet at some times, so aggressively harsh at others. The vid of Maria that you posted above captures this dichotomy perfectly; it also captures the fact that this paradoxical essence has aged as beautifully as her face, which is to say very well, indeed.

Autoamerican
came late in the band's career, and like all such efforts seems to want to recall past glories while it pushes the listener hard to expand expectations and range. The success of this effort is more dependent on one's opinion of the given artist at the time of the album's release than the quality of any individual song to be found there. If Cyndi Lauper had released her album of showtunes in 1990 it would have seemed like a desperate measure to sustain whatever popularity she still had left. But released fifteen years later, it was a brilliant comeback gesture that endeared her to her gay fans all over again.

Blondie peaked with Parallel Lines and rode that crest through Eat To The Beat. These albums rewarded old fans' expectations while gaining heaps and heaps of new ones. They refined that quality you so beautifully summarize as:

It's intriguing, very warm, and altogether fascinating. That she originally sang material completely unsuited to her voice gave Blondie songs an ultra-hip detached insouciance perfect for the too-cool set.
Parallel Lines also gave the world Heart of Glass, which was cool the first three hundred times I heard it, but whose playlife exceeded its charms by a factor of fifty. More than any single one song, HoG combined the dance-y boom-boom of disco (the first self-consciously and unambiguously gay music) with the guitars and attitude of punk rock (or so it seemed at the time). It's the first New Wave song.

But Debbie was never a convincing punk rocker: she was a Playboy bunny, for fuck's sake. She was much too glamorous and much too natural to be convincing at the part. Punk and the Post-Punk that followed were all about the artificial and contrived: Think The Day The World Turned Day-Glo by X-Ray Spex, featuring Polly Styrene. Debbie could never compete with anything like that, and to the credit of everyone involved, never attempted it. So Blondie picked their battles very wisely. Of course there were clunkers and fill, but overall these two albums were highly significant cultural landmarks which, as I've stated above, virtually invented the New Wave sound and aesthetic.

All of the irony and self-consciousness of Punk remain intact; the music went from aping the simplicity of pre-St Pepper rock & roll to explicit reminiscences and occasional direct quotation, softened considerably
becoming less noisy and much poppier. Even Siouxsie Sioux put away her torn fishnets (if never the eye make up :rolleyes:) and put on a dress for the Christine video, etc.

That evolution would have been unthinkable without the creative minds that shaped Debbie Harry's career. She did it first: her beauty was her destiny and changed popular music forever.


Seriously, what other band would do show tunes, punk, new wave, pop, disco, torch, soul, big band, reggae, rap, calypso, swing, blues, and even (God help them) country? Not everything they do is going to be within their ability and I'd rather see them take risks than stick with the same old thing.

The only other artist who could and did attempt to push that kind of range (with the possible exception of rap) was Bette Midler. I'll have to write a Betty Mildew post in this thread soon. It's completely apro pos and her exclusion from this list so far is, well...just fucking weird.

Ultimately, Blondie is Stein writing songs which may, or may not, fit his muse. Harry is a remarkable instrument. Her range is not great, her technical mastery, while improving over the years, is not deep, her power has diminished with age though it was never great to begin with. What Harry has is delivery. It's a lovely languid voice strangely dispassionate and mysterious yet lovely. Were it a gem, I'd call it the sleepiest of Kashmir sapphires. It's intriguing, very warm, and altogether fascinating. That she originally sang material completely unsuited to her voice gave Blondie songs an ultra-hip detached insouciance perfect for the too-cool set. I think Stein understands Harry better than he understands her voice; that she shines best when she's singing power songs that allow her retain that air of mystery. Ninotchka was a great movie and Garbo was good in it, but it's not what put Garbo on the map. Same deal with Harry. That doesn't make the songs which don't fit her talent their worst songs, it just means that Stein isn't writing for her voice so much as his ego.

Quoted again in full because it is a perfect illustration of your incredible writing talent and the fierce insights that go into it.
 

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Scissor Sisters (Del & Jake...sigh...)
Morrissey
Liza
Bette
Cher
Ethel Merman
Village People
Rufus Wainwright
B-52's
Ziggy-era Bowie
Robbie Williams
Sir Sharon...errr...Elton

Yep - I love 'em all. Guess this means I get to keep my gay card...
 

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Bronski Beat has been mentioned. Smalltown Boy is epic.

Funny...Smalltown Boy was the first track that came to mind when I saw this thread title, but I'd never heard of Bronski Beat. The tracks I'm familiar with are from Brice's remix CD that came out in early 2000. I spent a lot of weekends at a gay techno club in Houston around that time and remember it getting heavy playtime.
 
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Glad to be of service!

Autoamerican was the first album where Chris Stein had complete creative control. That may explain why it is not so finely crafted as the previous four efforts. Still, it is a concept album, the one that every band wants to make to prove they're more than just what they've been hawking previously. The Hunter went back to some familiar formulas with experimentation however the acrimony between the band members was festering and Stein was just beginning to become very ill. It's not their best effort despite the fact it does have some great songs on it.

Harry's solo efforts range from the decent Koo Koo with the stunning HR Geiger cover, to the very good Def, Dumb, and Blonde, to Debravation which I can only describe as sheer crap. Again, this tells me that Harry herself really isn't quite sure what songs fit her and which don't.

If you ask me, the songs that best illustrate Harry's talent are the ones where her voice is allowed to front a big sound. It's like she's wearing sunglasses and holding an umbrella drink while reclining on a beach chair perched on a surfboard atop a tsunami. It's that dispassionate languid quality and its contrast with the power of the music she sings to that produces the intriguing sound which is uniquely hers. Take a listen to Good Boys, which is off The Curse of Blondie. It's a very Blondie song (and video). Then compare that to Accidents Never Happen. Do you see what I mean? Accidents has that vaguely sinister guitar, a minor key, excellent orchestration, and despite a somewhat clumsy chorus, gives Harry every excuse to sound as mysterious and enigmatic as ever. It's brilliant and one of my favorite Blondie songs. Good Boys has that same kind of veiled quality and it's wonderful. You can hear the same quality in Union City Blue and Shayla, all of which I think contributed to Eat To The Beat's enormous success.

Have you heard her sing Moby's New York, New York? If Moby, a master song orchestrator, collaborates with someone it's because they have a quality he needs to make a song sound better. His version of South Side with Gwen Stefani is head and shoulders above his solo version because the addition of the right female voice makes the song more meaningful by making gangs less about male bravado than about a societal plight. Stefani's sweetness counters his rather gray delivery, lending a sweet melancholy to an already downbeat song.

Harry is a natural choice for New York, New York. It's an upbeat song, celebratory and wide-eyed. It's all rah-rah-rah and, as you know, that's just too effusive for the sardonic Moby fan. Harry sings the song enthusiastically yet keeps it at arm's length as if too self-conscious. It's the perfect delivery, like one of the cool girls mocking cheerleaders from under the bleachers while perfectly mimicking their routine.

I disagree with you completely about Blondie's punk cred. They were just as punk as anyone else, not giving much of a shit about the image so much as the music and if Blondie is about anything, it's about not judging a band by its cover (or cover girl) despite the obvious invitation to do so.
 
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Bbucko

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Glad to be of service!

:kiss:

Harry's solo efforts range from the decent Koo Koo with the stunning HR Geiger cover, to the very good Def, Dumb, and Blonde, to Debravation which I can only describe as sheer crap. Again, this tells me that Harry herself really isn't quite sure what songs fit her and which don't.

If you ask me, the songs that best illustrate Harry's talent are the ones where her voice is allowed to front a big sound. It's like she's wearing sunglasses and holding an umbrella drink while reclining on a beach chair perched on a surfboard atop a tsunami. It's that dispassionate languid quality and its contrast with the power of the music she sings to that produces the intriguing sound which is uniquely hers.

This brings me back to Call Me, which I've always considered the ultimate Debbie Harry vocal (if not Blondie's finest moment, which it's not). It's emotionally distant while imploring intimacy, aggressive (especially at the chorus) but passive (if she wants him so badly, why not just pick up the phone herself?) and affects that jaded, blase quality she did (and does) so very well, completely autonomous and unconcerned by the greater chaos all around her: there used to be pins that koolkids wore that read "Blondie is a group", usually worn with red, hightop Converse sneakers :rolleyes:

But it's also obviously a strain on her limited range and talents: Call Me is pitchy and faltering. There are many notes that slide around before landing approximately where they belong. I've always wondered why they ended up going with that specific track: was it the best she delivered during the recording session, or are her limits meant to be as self-consciously displayed as much as her strengths had always been? Call Me was a major hit by a major star, tied to a major motion picture; all that money usually precludes experimentation. The conventional wisdom when it was released (I was working in a gay disco at the time, and everybody had an opinion) was that it was her best effort, which reinforced the impression that Blondie was fashion over substance and style over talent.

As I've said previously, I like the song, and I like the way she does it. But it was something of a joke among the cognoscenti: the disco dollies thought it showed how much she couldn't sing, and the punk/New Wave crowd felt it was a sell-out (always the kiss of death). But these were the kind of gay men who aren't happy until they're finding something to criticize.


Take a listen to Good Boys, which is off The Curse of Blondie. It's a very Blondie song (and video). Then compare that to Accidents Never Happen. Do you see what I mean? Accidents has that vaguely sinister guitar, a minor key, excellent orchestration, and despite a somewhat clumsy chorus, gives Harry every excuse to sound as mysterious and enigmatic as ever. It's brilliant and one of my favorite Blondie songs. Good Boys has that same kind of veiled quality and it's wonderful. You can hear the same quality in Union City Blue and Shayla, all of which I think contributed to Eat To The Beat's enormous success.

Have you heard her sing Moby's New York, New York? If Moby, a master song orchestrator, collaborates with someone it's because they have a quality he needs to make a song sound better. His version of South Side with Gwen Stefani is head and shoulders above his solo version because the addition of the right female voice makes the song more meaningful by making gangs less about male bravado than about a societal plight. Stefani's sweetness counters his rather gray delivery, lending a sweet melancholy to an already downbeat song.

Thanks for the Good Boys vid, which I've never seen before now. My first impression was that Debbie's had some vocal training post-Blondie in between appearances in John Waters movies. Her voice in that vid is far stronger than her Blondie work, and she seems confident in a way that's different, too (if harder to describe). It's also very well filmed and integrates the story, the lyrics, the music and the actual vocalist in a way that almost never happens.

I was gonna include Accidents Never Happen in one of my earlier posts but decided against it at the time; it was late, I had the sound turned way down, and I was listening for something in the vocal that I wasn't finding, so I skipped it. Listening to it this afternoon, what really struck me was how much of a template for New Wave (and 80s pop generally) it really was: the percussion is especially evocative. That song was repeated in endless Xerox facsimiles for the next ten years.


Harry is a natural choice for New York, New York. It's an upbeat song, celebratory and wide-eyed. It's all rah-rah-rah and, as you know, that's just too effusive for the sardonic Moby fan. Harry sings the song enthusiastically yet keeps it at arm's length as if too self-conscious. It's the perfect delivery, like one of the cool girls mocking cheerleaders from under the bleachers while perfectly mimicking their routine.

I agree with your assessment, but only because I knew going in that it was Harry on vocals. She is not instantly recognizable as the vocalist in the way that Robert Smith is here. Maybe it's because she's getting older, maybe it's the hypothetical vocal lessons I presumed above, maybe it's the way Moby edited the recording: I don't know. But the actual vocal is curiously impersonal.


I disagree with you completely about Blondie's punk cred. They were just as punk as anyone else, not giving much of a shit about the image so much as the music and if Blondie is about anything, it's about not judging a band by its cover (or cover girl) despite the obvious invitation to do so.

I know they started at CBGB and Whiskey A Gogo, and I can picture them hammering out the concepts there that would become the Blondie we all recognize now. But they didn't evolve in The Clash, Magazine, Stiff Little Fingers or even Echo & The Bunnymen or The Slits.

Instead, they invented/popularized the edgy, ironic and extremely marketable New Wave. In the end, that makes them much more influential than any of the bands I've mentioned in the previous paragraph.
 

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Funny...Smalltown Boy was the first track that came to mind when I saw this thread title, but I'd never heard of Bronski Beat. The tracks I'm familiar with are from Brice's remix CD that came out in early 2000. I spent a lot of weekends at a gay techno club in Houston around that time and remember it getting heavy playtime.

Smalltown Boy was groundbreaking. It was the first time I remember a band being specifically marketed as Political Queer for the pop masses. It was very much a British thing at the time; the album from which it came was called Age Of Consent, in protest that, at the time, the UK had two ages of sexual consent: for straight kids it was 16, for gay kids it was 18 (I think: it might have been 20 or even 21). Anyone having gay sex with someone younger than that was subject to arrest and prosecution, and this was in 1984.

The album sleeve was printed with a list of countries and their various ages of sexual consent, which was very provocative to have at the time. According to Wikipedia it was replaced by a plain sleeve in later US-released pressings. I must have had one of the first, because I remember it very clearly on the copy of the LP I bought in Boston in 1985.

In hindsight, Age of Consent isn't an especially good album musically; only Smalltown Boy remains impressive today. Why? and Run From Love remix I posted above are largely forgotten now. Because of the obvious gayness of the the work, it received very little radio play, and I can't imagine that it was a big hit in straight dance clubs, either. In my opinion, the work suffers from an advanced case of Martyr Complex: the same mind-set that insists that at least one person must die as a sacrifice in every gay movie ever made (or so it seems).

Yawn.
 

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Oh yes her voice has matured! During Stein's illness she was doing Jazz Passengers and took jazz singing lessons. Those have helped her enormously as good jazz singing is about as difficult as singing gets. One of her better solo songs is Brite Side and it showcases her improving sense of what she can and cannot do. It's a bit ethereal but also makes good use of her vocal range (limited as it is).
 
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Here she is doing Good Boys live. She hits the notes. Please take note of the exceptional plastic surgery which simply makes her look like a younger version of herself. Not bad for 60!

I'm so glad they're a big deal again and wish that popularity would spread back to the ageist US. It seems the Euros care far less about age than we do.
 

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I don't like many au courant artists so I'm listing three of my favorties with what I'll loosely call gay appeal.

Bette Midler's version of Is That all There Is?

Jean-Baptiste Maunier featured in Pueri Concinite

Clara Moreno Ela Vai Pro Mar


**the third link to Youtube is dedicated to Naughty '-)

Bbucko said:
The only other artist who could and did attempt to push that kind of range (with the possible exception of rap) was Bette Midler.....

...and her exclusion from this list so far is, well...just fucking weird.

Consider La Midler no longer excluded.
 
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Bbucko

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Oh yes her voice has matured! During Stein's illness she was doing Jazz Passengers and took jazz singing lessons. Those have helped her enormously as good jazz singing is about as difficult as singing gets. One of her better solo songs is Brite Side and it showcases her improving sense of what she can and cannot do. It's a bit ethereal but also makes good use of her vocal range (limited as it is).

I spent the better part of 45 minutes previewing Lambert, Hendricks and Ross vids on YouTube for (gently) snarky comparison before thinking better of it. The fact is that Debbie does just fine: it's Elvis who blows goats in that performance, and whoever selected such a meandering, flat, flaccid song to showcase Debbie Harry should be taken behind the barn for a good what-for. But, honestly, the whole thing reeks of Vanity Project, though in the pursuit of whose vanity, I can't say for certain.

Brite Side was new to me, too. Again, she does well, but the flagging energy level and forgettable melody isn't gonna win any new fans. Perhaps that's the point: such later-career efforts are usually to capitalize on the existing fan base, much like any "revival tour" you see older acts pushing around.

Here she is doing Good Boys live. She hits the notes. Please take note of the exceptional plastic surgery which simply makes her look like a younger version of herself. Not bad for 60!

I'm so glad they're a big deal again and wish that popularity would spread back to the ageist US. It seems the Euros care far less about age than we do.

In another time and place, Marlene Dietrich extended her career by 25 years by evolving from Movie Star to Concert Idol, and with far fewer gifts than Deborah Harry. But that one-off has never really been repeated except for, maybe, Shirley Bassey, who is still an enormous talent age be damned.
 

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Smalltown Boy was groundbreaking. It was the first time I remember a band being specifically marketed as Political Queer for the pop masses. It was very much a British thing at the time; the album from which it came was called Age Of Consent, in protest that, at the time, the UK had two ages of sexual consent: for straight kids it was 16, for gay kids it was 18 (I think: it might have been 20 or even 21). Anyone having gay sex with someone younger than that was subject to arrest and prosecution, and this was in 1984.

The age of consent for homosexuals was 21 then. That's one inequity that I disliked when I lived in Britain under Thatcher's rule.
It was lowered to 18 in 1994.

BBC News | UK | Q and A: The age of consent
 
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Placebo
Sons Of An Illustrious Father
The Subways

Those are LGBT+ bands
 

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This song, sung by the Cookies, impressed Morrisey so much that he did a cover version of it in 1982


What should I do when alone in my flat?