Question for straight men about bisexual men

[B_curiousme01]

This place can be both great and terrible. I'm out. Peace.

 

[B_henry miller]

I'm glad some intelligent exchanges happened on the first two pages, because I knew this would happen. One cannot discuss such issues on this forum without, eventually, a self-righteous gay man coming into the discussion and throwing the word "homophobic" around.

So, I'm going to write this once and then I'm going to ignore all future (bullshit) comments similar to those below:

I AM NOT HOMOPHOBIC AND THINK GAY MEN ARE, FOR THE MOST PART, A WONDERFUL SEGMENT OF SOCIETY THAT CONTRIBUTE A GREAT DEAL OF CULTURE TO THE WORLD!!!!

Just as there are some African Americans who believe that all white people are racist just because they're white, just as there are some Jewish people who think that all the gentiles are anti-semitic just because they are gentiles, there are some gay people who think that all straight people are homophobic (and all bisexuals are lying). Bullshit!

you have the warped view of gay men, Mr. Miller.
is the oddest arrangement of homophobia and denial i have ever seen.
add some regimented gender/sexual roles.
kinda unsettling.

enjoy more.
worry less.
ya only got one life.

 

[B_henry miller]

Okay, it may be time for me to bow out of this thread, because what inevitably happens on this forum is already starting to happen.

It seems that, sadly, people do not read what goes on in the first two pages. So, let me recap, sir.

Please go to this post: http://www.lpsg.org/262889-question-for-straight-men-about.html#post3664637 In this post I refer to asking a store clerk where the Madonna albums are, and then I refer to a different store clerk in a different store catching me doing a routine from a Lady Gaga video. To my knowledge, these are NOT things most straight guys, or most guys wanting to "pass" as straight, would be doing.

In the above post, I refer to being SURPRISED that straight guys, lately, take me for being straight. I then say that as a result of them assuming I'm straight, they treat me differently than I have been treated in the past (before I was working out, back when I was more feminine).

I'm not trying to "pass" for anything. And I am not close friends with random clerks at stores. People that I am truly close to KNOW my orientation. But I'm not really obligated to tell anyone anything I don't feel comfortable telling them anyway. A minister once shared the following advice to me: "You are under no obligation to tell someone the truth if they are going to use that truth against you!"

For future reference, please read dicussions fully before you insert yourself into them. Thank you.

It would be refreshing if the comradeship you enjoy was not based on you needing to "pass" as straight. It's somewhat pathetic needing to de-emphasize your enjoyment of the arts and emphasize the enjoyment of sports to impress the dudes.

I'm straight. A real friend (for me) is not a bigot. I don't accept that in people close to me. If they bail after getting to know you as a friend, then my conclusion is they must be bigoted. Not all straight guys are bigots.

I dislike it when females hide their intelligence to be more attractive to males. I find the people worth knowing are true to their convictions. Just be yourself. There will be some rejection, but maybe the loss is theirs.

 

[jerryhall]

Are those str8 guys you are referring to, who accept you as one of their own, the guys that are in your photo titled "My buds and me"?

Just curious...

 

[MickeyLee]

I'm glad some intelligent exchanges happened on the first two pages, because I knew this would happen. One cannot discuss such issues on this forum without, eventually, a self-righteous gay man coming into the discussion and throwing the word "homophobic" around.

So, I'm going to write this once and then I'm going to ignore all future (bullshit) comments similar to those below:

I AM NOT HOMOPHOBIC AND THINK GAY MEN ARE, FOR THE MOST PART, A WONDERFUL SEGMENT OF SOCIETY THAT CONTRIBUTE A GREAT DEAL OF CULTURE TO THE WORLD!!!!

Just as there are some African Americans who believe that all white people are racist just because they're white, just as there are some Jewish people who think that all the gentiles are anti-semitic just because they are gentiles, there are some gay people who think that all straight people are homophobic (and all bisexuals are lying). Bullshit!

i am not a gay man. i am a queer, gender-variant, biological female

hmm maybe my sex isn't the only thing you don't see all that clearly, Mr. Miller.
i've been around since you were "straight"
i was around for "brotherhood of men" phase.
please don't think one thread/post gave me the idea that you have a strong vein of internalized homophobia.

but feel free to label my opinion as bullshit.
we'll see where you are 3 years from now.
:smile:

 

[B_henry miller]

that's kinda the "uurrmmm, okay" unease.
caught dancing, the dude probably felt a lil awkward catching someone in an unguarded moment. Mr. Miller said he was dancing because he thought nobody was watching. on realizing he'd been observed getting his Gaga on, is easy to think Mr. Miller's body language might have conveyed embarrassment or being uncomfortable. random dude made a light hearted comment to break the tension. had nothing to do with anyone thinking Mr. Miller was straight, or that no straight man would be caught dead dancing to Gaga.

I think you're really analyzing this all too much and taking it too seriously. I'll try to clarify, briefly.

1. I wasn't embarrassed to be caught doing a "gay" thing like dancing. I was embarrassed that more people saw me than I had anticipated.

2. I have good intuition and I feel the way the clerk spoke to me was the way a straight guy talks to another straight guy. When the clerk checked us out, I saw a shocked look on his face when he saw I was buying a Lady Gaga magazine -- and then handed it to the gay guy (in makeup) standing next to me. The clerk's reaction to and treatment of me changed when it started to become apparent to him that I was something other than straight.

3. I live in a rural, highly conservative area where gays are virtually invisible and most straight guys here most certainly would NOT be caught dead dancing. Further, dude, YOU WEREN'T THERE. Please take my word for what only I experienced, okay? Please don't try to tell me what happened in a situation you yourself did not experience, okay?

same with the Madonna, is not that only a gay man would buy Madonna, or that Mr. Miller seemed to straight to buy Madonna. face it, Madonna has gone to shit since she developed an english accent.. not only that, she took Guy Richie with her!

Okay. All I can go on is that the clerk said "I won't tell anyone." If he wouldn't tell anyone, then he's implying that a guy would want to hide that he is buying a Madonna album. I thought -- just from looking at me -- that he would know I am bisexual (and therefore "gay" to most straight guys) and I thought he would therefore know that buying a Madonna album is not something I would want to hide. When he said that to me, I felt for a second like saying, "Oh, there's nothing to hide. All my friends know I'm bisexual." But I was so caught off guard by the comment that I didn't have time to make a response, and he was quickly gone anyway.

the idea that all gay men are mincing fancy boys jumping from circuit party to shopping with the "girls" is completely outdated. there is a mythic quality to his perception of gay/bisexual men and straight men. where straight men are an aspiration ideal and gay men are a flawed default.

I know full well that this is completely outdated. What you don't understand is that I live in an area which is completely outdated. I had thought others understood that not all gay and bisexual guys fit this stereotype. But in the area I live in, apparently, people think that if you are masculine, then you are straight; if you are feminine, then you are gay. This has surprised me.

Actually, gay and bisexual guys may not want to hear this, but this is the truth: I think that, if truth be told, most straight guys DO think that all gay and bisexual guys are feminine. I think that if you are masculine then most people will think you're straight.

gay men/bisexual men are men. with every personality/gender/interest variable of any other human being on the planet. creating a caste system of sexuality is ridiculous. and offensive. you limit straight men, and you marginalize gay/bi-sexual men.

Yes, I know this. I don't need a public service announcement.

sexual tension - if there is no sexual tension, there is no sexual tension. if your straight friends find out you are not straight. most won't give a good god damn. you're currently mixing with a young group of men, you talk about an shift in sensitivities.. well, accepting of your sexuality would be one of the shifted sensibilities. is ya own hang up keeping you from being yourself around people. you won't be one bit less Mr. Miller once your terrible secret it out.

Oh, geez. I really wish you would take my word that I know the environment I live in better than you do, okay? I live among people who believe that the world is 6,000 years old, dinasaurs are a lie invented by scientists to discredit God, and AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality. THIS is the environment I'm in. I am not in New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, even Seattle. I am in the sticks! (I am not really in Big Sur, California. That's where the real Henry Miller, the famous writer, lived.) Thanks.

 

[B_henry miller]

Okay, well. If you are "gender-variant" then you should know that people change, right? People grow, right? Also, if you are a sane person, then you should understand that you cannot fully know a person based on what they put on a forum, right? And I'm not even going to touch the accusation that I have "internalized homophobia." I don't. The underlying issue that I touch on in this thread is actually that others are homophobic and would treat me differently if they knew I'm bisexual.

It is so gawd-damned hard to carry on any kind of discussion in an environment where one is continually accused of being a bigot where one has shown no indication as such. Here. I'm going to throw labels at you. You are a dog hater! How dare you come in here and say you hate dogs! You are anti-McDonalds. Don't you understand how great cheese burgers are! You have a strong case of internalized anti-planktonitis. Get over it!

I really don't have anything to justify or prove to you. I really don't. And how the fuck was I to know that you are a "gender variant" lesbian? Unlike what you do with me, apparently, I do not memorize information about you.

i am not a gay man. i am a queer, gender-variant, biological female

hmm maybe my sex isn't the only thing you don't see all that clearly, Mr. Miller.
i've been around since you were "straight"
i was around for "brotherhood of men" phase.
please don't think one thread/post gave me the idea that you have a strong vein of internalized homophobia.

but feel free to label my opinion as bullshit.
we'll see where you are 3 years from now.
:smile:

 

[B_henry miller]

Oh, and in case you would like a dose of reality, here it is....

This thread is not about how I feel. It is about trying to gauge how straight men feel and respond to other males. If you would wonder at all how straight men would respond to your claim to be "gender variant".... Well, I can't speak for all straight men. But I can pretty much offer that most straight men would laugh at your idea of being "gender variant." What does that even mean? Do you have a detachable penis?

And before you accuse me of bigotry for simply introducing reality (that most straight males would not agree that you are gender variant), I think you can call yourself whatever you like. If you have days where you think you're male, fine. Days where you think you're female, fine. But most straight guys would laugh at this.

i am not a gay man. i am a queer, gender-variant, biological female

hmm maybe my sex isn't the only thing you don't see all that clearly, Mr. Miller.
i've been around since you were "straight"
i was around for "brotherhood of men" phase.
please don't think one thread/post gave me the idea that you have a strong vein of internalized homophobia.

but feel free to label my opinion as bullshit.
we'll see where you are 3 years from now.
:smile:

 

[B_henry miller]

And to clarify one more thing....

Back when I was claiming I was straight on this forum, I was not engaged in sexual activity with males. My behavior was indeed straight at that point.

I stopped claiming a staight identity when I started giving and receiving oral sex from other men. I've never misrepresented myself.

There are guys on this forum who have sexual relations with other men and yet claim to be straight, and people are fine with that. THEY are the ones who have internalized homophobia. I don't. I'm honest. If you have sexual activity with other males then you are not straight. I do, occasionally, give and receive oral sex from other males. So I'm not straight. Um. By the way. That's what this whole fuckin thread is about. Pay attention.

i am not a gay man. i am a queer, gender-variant, biological female

hmm maybe my sex isn't the only thing you don't see all that clearly, Mr. Miller.
i've been around since you were "straight"
i was around for "brotherhood of men" phase.
please don't think one thread/post gave me the idea that you have a strong vein of internalized homophobia.

but feel free to label my opinion as bullshit.
we'll see where you are 3 years from now.
:smile:

 

[B_henry miller]

Are those str8 guys you are referring to, who accept you as one of their own, the guys that are in your photo titled "My buds and me"?

Just curious...

I uploaded that picture as a joke. I WISH those guys were my friends. lol :biggrin1:

 

[D_Sam Rockswell]

Wow, this thread got real weird really fast. To keep it short an sweet. I couldn't care less if someone i met (male or female) were in fact gay, straight or bi. I care more about the type of person they are. Whether they're friendly or not. If we have things in common...blah blah blah. Never really understood the whole idea of there being a gay, bi and straight type of personality.

That certain actions or expressions mean that a person likes this or that. But then again i've always been a strange straight man lol. I wouldn't worry soo much about the betrayal aspects as much as the danger of it.

If a straight guy gets peeved cause your bi oh well. I would just say to keep an eye out safety wise. Cause this site alone has taught me that some people will not ever and i mean ever be truthful with others about who/what they are.

 

[MickeyLee]

k. heaps to read before catching up with all of Mr. Miller's posts, so one quick question.
and this is the question scratching my side.

why do you care what straight men think?
seems like you are seeking their acceptance, more than you seek accepting yourself.

 

[B_debonair87]

some people just like to fuck anything. we're all sexual beings and some people just find both males and females attractive. i don't see the big deal. there are married couples who take guys home and the husband gets involved.

For a gay guy (or bisexual guy), dancing is sort of part of your lifestyle. For a straight guy, dancing is usually something a girlfriend drags you into doing against your will, and probably the last thing you'd want some other guy to see you doing. I'm generalizing here, I know. But the point I'm getting at here is that straight men are taking me as another straight male, I guess.

ummm we'll i'm black dancing is pretty big in my community

 

[B_henry miller]

I hate to break it to you. Don't shoot the messenger. Society has made great strides. Things are getting better for women, gay men, people of color, etc. But the fact remains that, even in 2011, this is still largely a straight white man's world. Therefore, whether we want to admit it or not, what straight white men thinks still does impact everyone and everyone by default HAS to care what they think -- because they are the ones with most of the power.

k. heaps to read before catching up with all of Mr. Miller's posts, so one quick question.
and this is the question scratching my side.

why do you care what straight men think?
seems like you are seeking their acceptance, more than you seek accepting yourself.

 

[B_henry miller]

And I'm a white bisexual guy who grew up in a black neighborhood and who already knew what you write here. Straight white guys usually don't dance. But straight black guys usually do dance. It's a cultural difference. Gay men (and I suppose bisexual men) bridge this cultural gap. Scrubs - White Boys Dancing - YouTube

ummm we'll i'm black dancing is pretty big in my community

 

[B_henry miller]

I suppose it's a very sensitive topic for some people. This is probably akin to asking a question about light skinned black people who can "pass" as white if they want. People go to pieces over that topic. Similarly, there are people in the gay community who go to pieces over this issue of "straight acting" guys. For me, there is no act. It's been a surprise for me that other straight guys lately think I'm straight -- and this is why I ask the question in this thread. Thanks.

Wow, this thread got real weird really fast. To keep it short an sweet. I couldn't care less if someone i met (male or female) were in fact gay, straight or bi. I care more about the type of person they are. Whether they're friendly or not. If we have things in common...blah blah blah. Never really understood the whole idea of there being a gay, bi and straight type of personality.

That certain actions or expressions mean that a person likes this or that. But then again i've always been a strange straight man lol. I wouldn't worry soo much about the betrayal aspects as much as the danger of it.

If a straight guy gets peeved cause your bi oh well. I would just say to keep an eye out safety wise. Cause this site alone has taught me that some people will not ever and i mean ever be truthful with others about who/what they are.

 

[Smaccoms]

Phew! Maybe what I'm trying to say is the following:

* Lately, it seems that straight males are taking me as "one of their own." Am I a fraud to let them think that? Am I obligated to admit to them that I am in fact bisexual? I mean, I know the answer is no. I can act however I want. But it seems like there is a brotherhood between straight males that they (straight males) offer me, and I sometimes wonder if it would still be offered if they knew that I am not in fact straight, and am I therefore "dishonest" to accept that sense of brotherhood?

feminine versus masculine, straight versus male. These are philosophical caoncepts used to help boost our understanding of gender and sexuality. We, as human beings do not "fit" into these "categories". That's not how it works. It gets to a point where you just need to forget those stereotypes, because they're pretty fuckin pointless; it's causing you more harm than good. Let's say your mom's British and your's dad's French. Are you British or French? Does it really actually matter? What difference does it make if you are British or French? It's only one part of your life that not man people ACTUALLY care about (apart from men and women who still have sexual identity issues).

In short, if a guy automatically "categorizes" you as a "straight", he's got fuckin issues. If it bothers you so do you. Not that it's a big deal to ahve issues (everyone does), it's just something you need to work on.

Sorry if I came off a bit crude. I get heated when it comes to sexuality talk (reason for joining this site).

 

[B_henry miller]

Thank you for the response. But this isn't really an answer to the question I'm raising. You're preaching to the choir. I already know everything you wrote here. I do not, however, know how straight males perceive bisexual males. And that's why I asked. That's the question I asked. I didn't ask if we "should" or "shouldn't" categorize people. I asked for help dealing with the reality that we DO categorize people.

feminine versus masculine, straight versus male. These are philosophical caoncepts used to help boost our understanding of gender and sexuality. We, as human beings do not "fit" into these "categories". That's not how it works. It gets to a point where you just need to forget those stereotypes, because they're pretty fuckin pointless; it's causing you more harm than good. Let's say your mom's British and your's dad's French. Are you British or French? Does it really actually matter? What difference does it make if you are British or French? It's only one part of your life that not man people ACTUALLY care about (apart from men and women who still have sexual identity issues).

In short, if a guy automatically "categorizes" you as a "straight", he's got fuckin issues. If it bothers you so do you. Not that it's a big deal to ahve issues (everyone does), it's just something you need to work on.

Sorry if I came off a bit crude. I get heated when it comes to sexuality talk (reason for joining this site).

 

[Intrigue]

Well I identify as human. I like women. I'm married to a woman. But I hate the label straight, or that I may be one or the other because of some level of experience or want. So I guess you want my type of opinion. I view gay/bi whatever the fuck as a label. Love who you want, fuck who you want. What the fuck concern is it of mine? My advise... Move the fuck away from the sticks. Be yourself and atop worrying about how straight guys think. Bigots will be bigots, people will be people.

 

[Brick7]

Phew! Maybe what I'm trying to say is the following:

* Lately, it seems that straight males are taking me as "one of their own." Am I a fraud to let them think that? Am I obligated to admit to them that I am in fact bisexual? I mean, I know the answer is no. I can act however I want. But it seems like there is a brotherhood between straight males that they (straight males) offer me, and I sometimes wonder if it would still be offered if they knew that I am not in fact straight, and am I therefore "dishonest" to accept that sense of brotherhood?

You would be a fraud if you intentionally tried to mislead them. You have done nothing "wrong" or tried to deceive anyone. They've made an incorrect assumption about your sexuality but since there's no harm or foul in the grand scheme of things, I'd say nothing. You have no moral obligation or imperative to set them straight, so to speak.
And why are you assuming they're straight? Who says they are? The guy selling you a record could be just as bi as you.