his follow up text was "are you awake?" That's when I told him I'd get back the next day. He could have been testing me - he's made jokes in the past about me taking advantage of him & things like that, but I never took any of it seriously.
Question: how would you take this?
- Thread starter killerb
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One thing I'd never do is get involved with ANYONE who's married. I'm not that guy. I've had plenty offers, but I've never bitten.
I think the time for asking him has passed, but if he ever does something like this again, I'll find out what's on his mind.
Oh okay, good deal. I couldn't really tell by the phrasing of your question, whether you were second guessing how you responded.
Yeah,
"Whatever you want"
"Are you awake?"
You don't wanna jump to conclusions, but because you said this was out of the ordinary, sounds like he's fishing for something, to see how you respond, possibly just harmless risqué texting
@wnjcwjkk Wow. I don't think I could disagree more with this advice. It sounds like it hits your hot buttons, more than the OP's.
Let me ask you, would you prefer the husband flirted with a total stranger? And would you be upset with the stranger for receiving the text?
About the only thing I agree with... he should talk to him and confirm this is what the guy wants. (Only if, the OP is interested.)
Why does it matter if the person you are thinking about having sex with is experimenting or not? Unless I'm looking for a relationship, then sex is just sex. The fact that he is married isn't my issue. I have no obligation to his spouse. It isn't my responsibility to tell him what he can and can't do.
First, just wow. You make a lot of presumptions here. First, that the marriage doesn't allow for this type of behavior. Second, that sexting would 'ruin' a marriage. And third, not my problem. If he is straying from his marriage, it is his and his spouse's issues. Saying no, won't change that.
I think the opposite. If he is looking to experiment, then who better than a friend? If they are honest about it, then they can admit it didn't work, or, it was great, whichever. I would prefer having sex with someone I considered friend. And during a tenuous time, what kind of friend am I to not support someone exploring his gender identity?
When did flirting become cheating? That sounds like a super possessive definition of marriage. See, I have no idea what is considered cheating in his marriage. And, I really question where you assign it here.
Let me ask you, would you prefer the husband flirted with a total stranger? And would you be upset with the stranger for receiving the text?
First, the OP isn't responsible to make sure that the guy stays in his marriage. And, maybe staying in the marriage is exactly what he is regretting right now.
About the only thing I agree with... he should talk to him and confirm this is what the guy wants. (Only if, the OP is interested.)
Totally fair.
It depends on OP's definitions and his friend's particular circumstances, their relationship, and also his wife's knowledge of it and what she's okay with. She may be into it, for all I know. That would just be my nonjudgmental answer if a friend asked me what I would do, and I imagine any of my friends' advice to me.
Like, it would be a different situation based on genders and sexuality, I know, but if I was reciprocating sexting or more with a married female friend, I think I would feel guilt about it in retrospect, once the excitement cooled down. I wouldn't just think "That's their problem, not mine." But the truth is, it's only as much of a problem as the participants make it, depending on each one's personal definitions of marriage, friendship, sexuality, etc. There's no right or wrong with experimenting in those things, just individual perception
Not hitting my hot buttons at all, or anything worth saying "Wow. Just wow." About lol. Sounds like your hot buttons are the ones being pressed. But it's all good, just different ideas.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Well... because CHARACTER matters.
And you DO have an obligation to his spouse. You have an obligation to EVERY person in your community to conduct yourself in a manner that would not harm anyone else... and unless you KNOW his spouse would be cool with it... its a safe assumption that Your choosing to indulge with a married person would be hurtful to that person's spouse.
This is exactly like claiming that ACCEPTING goods you know to have been stolen is not YOUR problem, because you didn't commit the robbery.
And assuming that spouses are likely not cool with cheating is pretty much common sense.
y'know, like assuming that the person you are having sex with for the first time probably doesn't want your forearm up their ass.
MAYBE they are into it... but its best to assume they aren't until you've actually asked.
Okay- this I don't get... the OP does not imply any sexual tension between himself and this other DUDE. The OP lists himself as 99% straight. And yet he's reading all kind of sexual innuendo into this late night text that might have just been about grabbing a beer together. Looks to me like its the OP who is exploring his sexual identity.
Um - the minute the notion of marriage came along- flirting became cheating.
Its called a societal Norm... and I can promise you that 90% of women out there would consider their husband flirting with someone else to be NOT OKAY. Just as most men would not like to find out their wives were flirting with other men behind their back.
You act as if this stuff is UNHEARD OF... like, 'where do you get off assuming that murder is wrong!?"
That's a pretty wild assumption for someone who chastises the assumption that wives don't like cheating.
The op isn't responsible for anyone's conduct but his OWN... just as the Fence isn;t responsible for the burglary... but he IS responsible for knowingly abetting the crime after the fact.
the only assumption the text cited warrants is that the other guy was BORED late at night, and looking for someone to do something with.
That the OP read it as potentially sexual in nature is a reflection of the OP's sexual interest, not necessarily his friend's.
Why would a straight man assume a text asking if you are up for something, coming from a straight and married friend, is ANYTHING other than an invitation to have a drink... shoot some pool... or just have a conversation?
@Phil Ayesho
I appreciate that you and I don't see eye to eye on morals or ethics.
Character does matter, true.
I do not, however, have an obligation to enforce their marriage.
If I am okay with the sex, and accepting that he is otherwise attached to another person, then sex is just that.. sex. It doesn't create any additional obligations, unless you want to assign them.
And, as I said, my saying no would not enforce their marriage. All it would do is move the husband onto another person.
Also, comparing accessory after the fact in a criminal action is not analogous to flirting or having sex with a married person. It may have been in 1700's when women were property and a woman's virginity was sold in a dowry. The same time that having sex with an unmarried person was criminal and adultery was considering theft of property.
Adultery isn't a crime. It may be grounds for a divorce, but not a crime.
I don't assume that married people are cool with cheating. My comments and argument is ... it is inappropriate for me to assume that someone's actions are automatically cheating. It isn't for me to define someone else's marriage or what they permit or don't permit. That marital contract is between them and I expect them to honor it. (and we can have a long discussion about this if you want.
)
I have been cheated on and it isn't okay. I've have been in a relationship where the boundaries weren't clear. And, I am currently in a relationship which didn't meet the societal norms.
I respect and trust my friends enough to accept that they aren't doing something they'll regret.
I appreciate that you and I don't see eye to eye on morals or ethics.
Character does matter, true.
I do not, however, have an obligation to enforce their marriage.
If I am okay with the sex, and accepting that he is otherwise attached to another person, then sex is just that.. sex. It doesn't create any additional obligations, unless you want to assign them.
And, as I said, my saying no would not enforce their marriage. All it would do is move the husband onto another person.
Also, comparing accessory after the fact in a criminal action is not analogous to flirting or having sex with a married person. It may have been in 1700's when women were property and a woman's virginity was sold in a dowry. The same time that having sex with an unmarried person was criminal and adultery was considering theft of property.
Adultery isn't a crime. It may be grounds for a divorce, but not a crime.
I don't assume that married people are cool with cheating. My comments and argument is ... it is inappropriate for me to assume that someone's actions are automatically cheating. It isn't for me to define someone else's marriage or what they permit or don't permit. That marital contract is between them and I expect them to honor it. (and we can have a long discussion about this if you want.
)I have been cheated on and it isn't okay. I've have been in a relationship where the boundaries weren't clear. And, I am currently in a relationship which didn't meet the societal norms.
I respect and trust my friends enough to accept that they aren't doing something they'll regret.
Some context - the timing was strange. Based on where we live & the distance btw us, by the time we would have been able to meet up, most places would have been either already closed or closing soon.
There's absolutely zero sexual interest in him on my part. I'd never go there.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Again... what the heck makes you think it was sexual in the slightest?
There was nothing even remotely suggestive in the phrasing.
Just ordinary, " I'm up for whatever" that I have heard form friends all my life without one of them ever being interested in sex.
He might only have wanted to talk on the phone.
Might only have wanted to have you over for beer - perhaps to talk about some issue he was grappling with at work, or in his relationship...
Your response suggests YOU were the one 'going there'- at least in your own mind.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
@Phil Ayesho
I appreciate that you and I don't see eye to eye on morals or ethics.
Character does matter, true.
I do not, however, have an obligation to enforce their marriage.
If I am okay with the sex, and accepting that he is otherwise attached to another person, then sex is just that.. sex. It doesn't create any additional obligations, unless you want to assign them.
And, as I said, my saying no would not enforce their marriage. All it would do is move the husband onto another person.
Also, comparing accessory after the fact in a criminal action is not analogous to flirting or having sex with a married person. It may have been in 1700's when women were property and a woman's virginity was sold in a dowry. The same time that having sex with an unmarried person was criminal and adultery was considering theft of property.
Adultery isn't a crime. It may be grounds for a divorce, but not a crime.
I don't assume that married people are cool with cheating. My comments and argument is ... it is inappropriate for me to assume that someone's actions are automatically cheating. It isn't for me to define someone else's marriage or what they permit or don't permit. That marital contract is between them and I expect them to honor it. (and we can have a long discussion about this if you want.
I have been cheated on and it isn't okay. I've have been in a relationship where the boundaries weren't clear. And, I am currently in a relationship which didn't meet the societal norms.
I respect and trust my friends enough to accept that they aren't doing something they'll regret.
That is inherently a solipsistic perspective.
You can not have sex with a married person in any way that does NOT involve their spouse. They are affected and potentially injured by YOUR choices.
That it has been decriminalized does not mean that society considers it acceptable conduct. And you can not claim that you are unaware that society takes that view.
At the very least, honorable conduct would require you to ASK if the dalliance was okay with their spouse. And if they were keeping it secret, then you would be knowingly part of a conspiracy that you knew to be hurtful to another human being.
And you can absolutely roll like that if you choose... nothing to stop you but the man in the mirror.
But don't even pretend to think that the rest of your community will be willing to accept that you had no culpability in the emotional and financial damage that may follow.
I mean, if you are okay with being a villain in the eyes of other... that's your call... but don't imagine you aren't one when you choose to knowingly compromise another person's spouse.
It doesn't matter what WE think of ourselves. In the Social sphere, we are never anything other than what those who know us say about us behind our backs.
*chuckle* You are again reading black and white into it. You are welcome to view me as self-centered, which you have. But you are not reading correctly.
You are blatantly wrong on my ethical view. It isn't that I need to be proved something exists. It is that I presume my friends are acting in accordance with their own personal convictions and commitments.
I trust them.
And, the commitment I need to be concerned with is, not society's views on marriage, but my friend's.
Lastly, dalliance is having physical relations. Flirting, and texting, and watching porn, and a host of other activities, are up to individual couples as to what is or is not acceptable. Society only recently tolerated me being gay, or you being bisexual.
I believe my response was "I was thrown for a loop & didn't know what he meant". It wasn't "OMG he wants to have sex"
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