Question I need answered

Discussion in 'Politics' started by shybutwhy, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. shybutwhy

    shybutwhy Member

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    Hypothetically speaking, if a person or people decided to destroy the world and everything in it. I mean our beliefs and political ideologies most importantly as a people. If someone or something rid the world of the Cartesian grid that keeps us boxed in, the clock or concept that time is linear to our existence as humans, the belief that the world needs to be governed or it would be total choas/ people are inherently evil, and most importantly our seemingly innate desires to attain things which may only be attained with currency etc. If someone forced us to go back to the drawing board but did so in order to preserve and ensure our future as a species and would do so to make the world a better place for our descendants, would you be willing to accept a new way of living? Or would you rather this life we live? By that I mean one where you're born and immediately registered into some database you nor your family have any control over, forced to learn their facts and believe their lies, bein told you can be anything you want but having to pick from a selection, having to work for paper... If all this ended, would you be fine with it? Or can you even imagine a different way? I'm sorry I'm a bit conflicted lately and I would just like the opinion of others on a question that's been on my mind for quite some time. Thank you for your replies.
     
  2. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I could happily live a different way but only if it did'nt involve moving backwards and rather just changed the way we function.

    I am well aware of the contemptuous attitude some will have to the word zeitgeist to those who have heard of it but they have a very appealing idea.

    It is an idea that could work in theory and involves the removal of money from society.
    It also involves spending much less time labouring.

    It focuses heavily on looking after the planet and doing what is both in our interest but considerate of the earths resources.

    Money is one of the things holding us back because we might have a great idea to create a geothermal power plant but nobody is because a) it costs lots of money and b) means that countries lose assets because we won't have a need to value plutonium or uranium for example, this means spending money and losing sales.
    It is a very sensible sounding idea to use geothermal energy.

    It is a great idea (even if fanciful) and i recommend you google zeitgeist or the Venus Project or if you like watching visuals instead of reading then go to youtube and search for zeitgeist and it will pull out some stuff of interest.

    It would also cut down crime because no money = no need for greed. Instead of buying things you want you would order them as and when you needed and this would break down class barriers because nobody could enjoy a bigger or better that others can only dream of as we would all be able to afford them, they would be free.

    Money means greed and selfishness. If someone needs to eat but has no money they should'nt be left to starve, we should all be able to eat when we need to without being charged.

    We should'nt be living in a world where we have to pay to eat or drink, or pay to shelter, or pay to be clothed. We should be aware of the quantities we need each year to provide amply for free using comps and tech to carry out the bulk of the work allowing us to spend more time enjoying life of fun instead of drudgery.
     
  3. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    Unfortunately, we don't live in a society were this would work. I'd wager that even without money, there would still be greed and the need to control resources. Always a power struggle. As for socialism, I feel that it is great, but could only work in a perfect society where noone has the ambition to hoard wealth for themself. Of course, in our capitalist society, it's perfectly fine to work hard for what you get and keep for yourself. But, at what point must we realize that we've accumulated more than enough for ourself and begin to live more in excess than simply living for comfort. I mean, c'mon, who the hell needs 10 houses, 20 boats, 20 cars, etc. when there are people on the streets (many due to circumstances beyond their control) who can't even get a job let alone afford anything to eat.
     
  4. houtx48

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    greed is ingrained in the human, neither good nor vile, it just is there.
     
  5. Jason

    Gold Member

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    Of course there is a different way. Science is giving us a hint - many dimensions, time not an absolute, even such newfangled stuff as noetic science. And look at the miracles performed daily in our hospitals - even including people brought ack from the dead. We are doing things routinely that our ancestors wouldn't have believed. A lot of the Age of Aquarius, New Age stuff points towards a popular longing to do things differently. Make love not war - peace man - the 1960s stuff. And there are real improvements in the way people act. Most people today don't want wars - again our ancestors were in a different mindset. The churches often seem to have lost their way or got tied up with metaphors they hardly seem to understand. Yet cut through the rubbish and they speak of humanity getting it right - of an age of rapture and a second coming. And although the church has been predicting this age for the last two thousand years it may really be that it is near.

    A book that it is really useful is Dan Brown's "The Lost Symbol". Ignore all the media hype and stupidity - it is only incidentally about the masons and as a thriller is probably nothing special. But it does have something very important to say about humanity beginning to get it right. The point is that ultimately the lost symbol is found and humanity starts to find its way. A key word is "ensoulment". Humanity needs to start realising that we all have a soul and acting accordingly. This sure cuts through politics and finance and organised religion - and it changes the decisions that individuals make. It doesn't take away governments or money, but it makes both subservient to soul.
     
  6. shybutwhy

    shybutwhy Member

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    This year I have come to know absolute truth. I can say I'm "enlightened" or what you call continuously conscious, which means I dream every time I sleep and can control myself in them as well as remember everything in them. Those that have knowledge on this concept please speak on this also. Anyways one truth I have come to know Is that nothing can change. In order for this to be different it needs to be destroyed and then rebuilt. This is all a cycle of life. The three forces of nature or "holy trinity" if you will, are creation, protection and destruction. Therefore the destruction of this world is necessary in order to for the creation of the next to be possible, because protecting it is no longer enough. Because in this age the balance of the world is off. Like a fat man on one side of the teeter-totter with a newborn on the other. If anyone is interested in further discussing this topic please do so.
     
  7. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    This is in no way a joke but i tried this recently. I could not control my dream but i had one and it was very lucid.
    I have been getting funny vibes lately from all over the place like something is about to happen, like loose threads are pulling together.

    I have also heard about an ideology that suggests our minds are so polluted with self serving knowledge that we lack truth and awareness about the universe and ourselves. That our ancestors actually knew more in wisdom than we do and ultimately our intelligence is irrelevant. It does'nt really matter how many braincells are working to remind us what time we need to do this and that or how such and such works because none of that will help us evolve as a species which we could be capable of if we only spent more time learning how to think (and that is not hard, just need little distraction).

    Anyway, i'm rambling :redface:
     
  8. shybutwhy

    shybutwhy Member

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    Yes I know what you speak of. The concept that we have actually de-evolved. The human we know now is a lesser being. I have my own theory that this is due to segregation of the races, and I believe once we all begin to mix back in we will further evolve. This isn't a truth just a theory of mine. For awhile now I've been pondering whether the destruction of our civilization (2012 etc) would be a bad thing, or the most necessary event in our lives...
     
  9. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    Keep ramblin', mitchymo.... :cool:
     
  10. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    :redface::confused::redface:
     
  11. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    Ok...As for this:
    I feel you may be onto something. Isn't there a difference between wisdom and knowledge? It also doesn't help when we (as individuals) view how we are different from each other more than how we are the same. We lose sight of the things that bind us together. Possibly too distracted at times.
     
  12. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I don't know if they are different but i like to think that intelligence is knowledge we are taught whereas wisdom is knowledge we learn for ourselves.
     
  13. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    Knowledge:
    ┬ľnoun
    1.acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.
    2.familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job.
    3.acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature.
    4.the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear and certain mental apprehension.
    5.awareness, as of a fact or circumstance: He had knowledge of her good fortune.
    6.something that is or may be known; information: He sought knowledge of her activities.
    7.the body of truths or facts accumulated in the course of time.
     
  14. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    Wisdom:
    –noun
    1.the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.
    2.scholarly knowledge or learning: the wisdom of the schools.
    3.wise sayings or teachings; precepts.
    4.a wise act or saying.


    Origin:
    bef. 900; ME, OE wīsdōm; c. ON vīsdōmr, G Weistum. See wise 1 , -dom

    Related forms:
    wis⋅dom⋅less, adjective

    Synonyms:
    1. sense, understanding. 2. sapience, erudition, enlightenment
     
  15. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    Now to compare the two and see how it relates to previous post.:smile:
     
  16. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    when i was going through a rough patch in my early 20's i used to go for long walks (about 3 hours at a time) during the early hours of the morning (1am-4am) when it was really quite and preferably a night when it was showering (i just like walking in rain).

    It was for the specific purpose of thinking and it feels so refreshing afterwards as if you really have bettered your understanding if not solved a problem.

    On an entirely irrelevant point, you have Mitchymo's No.1 spot in LPSG hottest avatars! (think i've prob said before actually lol
     
  17. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    On many of those walks, you may not solve a problem, but you have a chance to better understand it if you simply let your mind wander. With a better understanding, that's when you find the answer you are looking for (which is usually right under your nose,might I add). Sometimes, we think too much about the problem and get too stressed and despair, so a nice long walk (or even a little quiet time in a secluded spot) is what is best. Thanks for the compliment:smile:
     
  18. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    A kid that just graduated from college can have more knowledge than an old man that worked as a brothel host for 20 years.

    But I assure you, the old man has much more wisdom.

    Wisdom comes only with age.
    It is coming. I suspect it has something to do with the internet. Before the internet, we could communicate, but only socially acceptable ideas. After the internet, real thoughts are constantly known, because of anonymity. This is opening up the third eye, for those willing to open it. We are becoming aware of each other's thoughts. Is it possible, soon we can become aware of them naturally? More and more often, I think something, only to hear somebody around me say it. (I have very good hearing, most people who do not have no clue I can hear them talking)

    Also, it has been projected that by 2013, a supercomputer will have the computing power of a human brain

    by 2025, you can have that in a lap top

    and by 2039, a laptop will have the computing power... of the entire human race.

    Regarding could I live in a more primitive state? Yes, of course. Would I love it? I could learn to love it.

    Venus project... is silly pie in the sky utopianism. It is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin. 2/3s of Zeitgeist is good. The Venus project 1/3rd is not. It is also ironic, in one part of Zeitgeist, the movie bemoans how people's jobs are taken by machines...

    ...yet the Venus project talks about how everything will be done by machines.



    the world, as we know it, will not last much longer. Of this, I am sure. In every aspect, it is unsustainable. Our economic system is a big pile of debt that cant be paid, or ecosystem could not support every person living like an American, global warming a hoax or not, the actual non-CO2 pollution would be too toxic. The pharmaceutical cocktails and the antibiotic monster bacteria and viruses being created are simply going to cull humanity greatly.

    Also, we are slipping into a mini ice age. This may sound ridiculous, but the mountains told me this a few years ago, and it has been getting colder and colder.

    The original religion was pantheism. And if I could consider myself anything, it would be a pantheist. Religion then evolved into animism and shamanism, to polytheism, to monotheism. We went from believing everything has a life energy, to believing in some kind of mythical supernatural human that rules us, and that we are unique, and everything is here for us, provided by him. A human dominator culture, where theoretically, something as horrid as blasting Mt. Ranier into rubble, if it meant saving human lives, or even meant making human life better, is conceivable.

    Consider the Sun, consider the stars. Science tells us they are merely big, lifeless balls of nuclear energies. Let me pose this to you, a star has a trillion times more energy, and exists a million times longer than any human. If the stars were actually intelligent, sentient beings, how the hell would we know? I mean, have you ever tried to communicate with the bacteria under your fingernail? Do the bacteria under your fingernail think you are anything but a part of their environment?


    :biggrin1:


    I've done this often. Now, I do it in the mountains for days. You have no idea how your spirit can get refreshed by being alone in the mountains. The natives of the Pacific Northwest believed that the mountains refreshed your spirit, and I agree.
     
    #18 B_New End, Jan 4, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
  19. Phil Ayesho

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    Labor less? No money?

    Sound's like a magical place where reality does not operate.

    Sorry... we can not get a better world thru less labor.
    and, Sorry again, we can not have a civilized world without some medium of exchange for the labor we perform.

    You want to live in a world where you make pants, and can not get a needed operation because the surgeon happens to have all the pants he needs for now?

    These kind of utopian fantasies all have two things in common... the folks who come up with them utterly ignore human nature, and the folks who support them never think anything all the way thru.


    We did not end up with money by accident. It Evolved as the most efficient means of getting work done, and distributing goods and services.

    You want a better life? It ALWAYS involves MORE labor.

    ( try running a farm... if you think the agrarian life is better... its damn hard work )

    Lots of thing have been tried... communism results in effort falling to the lowest survivable level. Without incentive, human beings don't perform. period.
    Without hunger, you would not get off your ass and make a sandwich.

    What we have, right now, is the BEST life has been for humanity, ever.
    And we can make it better, still.

    But what we have is the result of cultural evolution.
    The solution that works best is the solution that thrives.

    Don't tell me you are going to thunk up a better solution than that which was the result of ten thousand years of trial and error real world testing.
     
  20. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Bring back the 12 hour work day!!

    the average farmer today does the work of 100's of farmers in 1900.
    who was the first in space?

    Who invented the helicopter?

    Who competed with the U.S. militarily with 1/10th the GDP and 1/10th the military budget?

    Who has the best healthcare in the world, and an over abundance of doctors?

    Which nation had it's entire industrial core destroyed... twice... and which one became the banker and financier of the world after WW II?

    The collapse of Russia had as much to do with it's destruction in two world wars and a major civil war as it did it's economic system. Furthermore, the American system is already socialism, and capitalism is not driven by the need to succeed, it is driven by the need to survive.

    I mean, according to you, the reason slaves worked so hard was because of capitalism. All the factory workers in the 8190's were working 12 hour days at a dime an hour because they wanted to get ahead. Whatever, dude... captialism, communism, socialism, it doesn't matter... all that matters are those who are in power, and what they do with it.

    And yes, we are all working hard, for a bunch of bullshit. I mean, so many people spend so much time making a bunch of paper with print on it to circulate worthless paper amongst themselves.
    America =/= humanity. Ethiopia has seen better days as the Mali empire. Argentina has never recovered from being raped by the IMF in the 80's, and Guatemala has never recovered from being raped by the United fruit Company in the 50's. Seriously, just because *your* life is great, doesn't mean it is because of some "system", it's because people have been robbing the world and exploiting it, so they can have your vote.
     
    #20 B_New End, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
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