Questions for God...

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2322

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My question is harsher.

We demand that we act where unwarranted suffering takes place. A moral person fights tooth and nail against the suffering of innocents yet we imagine God to be omnipotent. With a whim, God could save the innocent from suffering yet God does nothing.

I've seen some reports from the deathcamps, I've seen reports on the Japanese "experiments" on allied soldiers in Manchuria.

Either God is omnipotent and indifferent or God is loving but impotent.

Neither is an acceptable excuse to worship the motherfucker for no truly loving person of conscience, let along a deity so floridly loving as the Judeo-Christain god could excuse inaction in the face of what is the most evil actions of man against man ever perpetrated. To suffer such torture and have the power to stop it, all the while alleging the greatest of love, without doing so is beneath contempt.

"Shit happens," is a pathetic excuse in traffic court, beyond (dare I say) inhuman in the court of all but the basest of morality.

I have seen no Jew or Christian answer this to my satisfaction and I am sure that I never shall.

Oh now i see what you meant by God holding us to a higher standard of morality than himself. Its a theodicy question you are getting at. Yes that is the hardest question of all. It might be the one I would ask God if I only had one question I could ask.

Job, in the Book of Job asks the same question as his fortune is gone, his family is dead and he is lying in the mud with his skin falling off. Job is demanding an explanation from God as to why such misery and suffering could exist in a world made by a loving and all powerful God (the basic question of theodicy). God finally shows up and gives a rather pyrotechnic answer that can be summed up simply by "Shit Happens".

By that answer, God is saying that the universe (and especially man) is capable of cooking up plenty of conditions for misery and suffering without God's help.
 

JustAsking

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My question is harsher.

We demand that we act where unwarranted suffering takes place. A moral person fights tooth and nail against the suffering of innocents yet we imagine God to be omnipotent. With a whim, God could save the innocent from suffering yet God does nothing.

I've seen some reports from the deathcamps, I've seen reports on the Japanese "experiments" on allied soldiers in Manchuria.

Either God is omnipotent and indifferent or God is loving but impotent.

Neither is an acceptable excuse to worship the motherfucker for no truly loving person of conscience, let along a deity so floridly loving as the Judeo-Christain god could excuse inaction in the face of what is the most evil actions of man against man ever perpetrated. To suffer such torture and have the power to stop it, all the while alleging the greatest of love, without doing so is beneath contempt.

"Shit happens," is a pathetic excuse in traffic court, beyond (dare I say) inhuman in the court of all but the basest of morality.

I have seen no Jew or Christian answer this to my satisfaction and I am sure that I never shall.
No, I don't think you will ever find a truly satisfying answer to that most profound of questions? But let me ask you what the world would be like if anytime a tree fell on you, it would magically vaporize before it hit you. Or if we were all lobotomized to the point where we were incapable of harming each other? How could we operate in the medium of the world where objects changed form and nature frequently and vigorously so as to avoid causing anyone any kind of harm or suffering? This is the world as Disney cartoon.

If you were a God of a world such as this, would you shut it down because of the potential for suffering? Would you turn it into a cartoon world where anvils fall on people's heads and don't really hurt them? Would you give the inhabitants unlimited resources so they wouldn't have to compete with each other for them?

What you might do instead is to run a 4000 year viral marketing campaign to influence the belief system in the world's inhabitants so as to change their behavior without coercion. In that way they would be your hands and feet in trying to mitigate injustice, misery, and suffering in the world.
 

36DD

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I believe when I meet Him face to face I won't have a need for questions because they will already be answered by just looking at Him...I just want to hear him say "Well done, my good and faithful servant".
 
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Trees and anvils have no free will and thus no intent. There is no moral implication in a mere accident.

Disney cartoon or Eden?

I cannot guess God's motives for allowing evil save that if God believes evil should be allowed to exist and be practiced then who are we to say it should not? God would certainly have created us with the capacity for gross injustices, knowing full well what we would do to each other. From whatever point of view I take, I can find no excuse to love a parent who would not save her son from a long, slow, torturous death should it be in her power to do so. Our laws demand as much, our sense of social duty expressed in law and morality (Christian morality at that!) demands as such too.

If God were a parent he would have seen his creation taken from him and he imprisoned for negligent homicide and gross indifference to human suffering ages ago.

If God were a parent and acted to save us from the evil we perpetrate against each other then would not God be acting as responsibly as even we, his imperfect creations, would? A parent may love a psychopathic child yet still prevent him from doing harm to others. Does not God, who willed us to be, need to do as much? For if we exist because of the will of God, does he not then owe us his protection? Otherwise we then suffer at the pleasure of God and that is a perverse thought. That is why the will of the evil always trumps the will of the innocent or the good. In the Judeo-Christian theology it's, "free will," to toss a child into a burning oven to burn to death despite the fact I daresay that child wills with all his or her might that it not be so. Evil triumphs! A man in Missouri captured an 18 year old boy, chained him to the ceiling and castrated him of penis and testicles while the boy bled to death for hours begging to be let go until life left him. Where is God then? Who among us who had the power to stop such a thing would not do so? That boy willed with all his might, likely even begged God to stop his wretched death, yet God did nothing but let him suffer until his life bled out of him in unimaginable pain.

Where there is no hope of rescue, where good men do not even know that evil is taking place, where is the moral lesson? How does it serve us or God? What purpose does such suffering serve? None! For there is no Disneyland about a child being tortured to death, a woman gang-raped or stoned to death, or young men being tortured and then vivisected without anesthesia in such a manner that they stay alive with their flesh splayed open and organs cut and proved for HOURS on end only to die crying out for death itself? Left merciless without any hope of rescue, any righteous ear to hear and fight for them save ONLY God?

Given that or Disneyland, I'd prefer Disneyland and were I wager you ask the victims of such atrocities I daresay they'd rather be in Disneyland too.

Remember that the inhabitants of Eden knew nothing other than Eden and were perfectly content. If God made us curious then that's his own fault and we suffer for that.

No, I don't think you will ever find a truly satisfying answer to that most profound of questions? But let me ask you what the world would be like if anytime a tree fell on you, it would magically vaporize before it hit you. Or if we were all lobotomized to the point where we were incapable of harming each other? How could we operate in the medium of the world where objects changed form and nature frequently and vigorously so as to avoid causing anyone any kind of harm or suffering? This is the world as Disney cartoon.

If you were a God of a world such as this, would you shut it down because of the potential for suffering? Would you turn it into a cartoon world where anvils fall on people's heads and don't really hurt them? Would you give the inhabitants unlimited resources so they wouldn't have to compete with each other for them?

What you might do instead is to run a 4000 year viral marketing campaign to influence the belief system in the world's inhabitants so as to change their behavior without coercion. In that way they would be your hands and feet in trying to mitigate injustice, misery, and suffering in the world.
 

Manbap

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would you like the "story" of God to be revealed?
would you like for Jesus bones to be found?
would you like.....


These are questions about God, not for God.
 
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Why haven't I gotten my period yet?

Because your ovaries are hanging in a sack between your legs and your vagina has transformed into a perineum and your clit has turned into a cock.
 

the_reverend

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the question of why there's evil and suffering in the world if God is all loving AND all powerful always comes down to how you view God's role in the universe. should God step in at every possibility of harm, injustice, intolerance, cruelty, etc. and prevent us from ever hurting one another in any small or great way? some would say yes, consider God unfair or uncaring and either grow angry with Him or stop believing in Him altogether, in which case all of the cruelty is just us being fucking animals to one another and there's no rhyme or reason and none of it truly matters.

that's one point of view. mine, after having gone through a few hardships, seeing my friends go through others and witnessing plenty of the fucked up shit in the world around us...is that we're here to grow and learn. such acts are not only tests and lessons for the perpetrator but for the victim as well. and, perhaps on some level even more importantly, the witness...whether it be in the same room, on the television or in a textbook decades or centuries away. do we not learn from the cruelties in our past? perhaps not as well or as permanently as we should, but i think we do. i think humanity on the whole rises to the occasion against adversity and cruelty, that injustice and oppression are as valid muses as love and freedom. we are inspired to create, to invent, to overcome by such evils and ills that occur at the hands of our brothers. "evil" is the shit from which our flowers of compassion, nobility and love spring. there can be no good without evil...both as a standard of comparison and as an inspiration to fight against.

what greatness does it serve for God to step in like an overprotective parent and prevent us from ever harming each other? as a species and as spiritual beings, we HAVE to fall in order to learn how to pick ourselves up and also how to defend ourselves from falling that way again. and sadly, that means that some of us are going to be the ones doing the shoving from time to time. most times in response to being shoved ourselves. because the victim today becomes the perpetrator tomorrow. but becoming the bully does not raise us above the bully. and eventually someone has to break the chain and say "there's a better way." until a new obstacle comes along. the day all obstacles are removed from our path and there is no more conflict or injustice to rally against is the day we stagnate and cease growing.

life is an act of constant creation. and creation is always a painful process. we do it to ourselves because we have to learn not to, as strange as that may sound. and to have God simply step in and settle it all for us and keep us from ever suffering defeats the purpose of why we're here to begin with.

that's how i look at it anyway. take it for what you will. :)
 

B_tallbig

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The concept of a god has no bearing on most of your questions...allow me to demonstrate:



Life has no inherent meaning or purpose other than perpetuation of itself. No creature was sent here on any mission, nor with any goal to achieve. We arrive tabula rasa, and our lives as individuals are as purposeful and meaningful as we choose to make them. It is posterity, not divinity, that will ultimately judge the relative value of these achievements.



Fair also has no intrinsic meaning. It is a value judgement made relative to some comparative basis...an entirely human concept.



Cruelty is another relative concept, as is brutality. These are subjective labels used by human beings, not categorical absolutes. Without predation of live animals, entire species of food plants and animals would be devastated by overpopulation of the prey animals that ate them for survival. Personally, this mechanism is perfectly sensible to me...I would label it neither cruel nor brutal. Those are terms I tend to use to describe human intent...the acts that we inflict upon one another, or upon the other animals of this world.



While it might seem counterintuitive, I also consider perfection to be without intrinsic meaning. What would be your idea of a perfect world? And do you believe it would align with the ideas of any other person in the world...much less all of them? In the opinion of many, the only imperfect thing about planet Earth is the presence of sentient life.

So you see that your questions aren't for any god...they're for yourself.


First of all , i dont believe in a gods much less a creator god . The questions i ask really have to do with the god concept because the god concept itself is a human creation.

According to the god believers we are here in this planet to archive a mision and to archive goals but the thing is that ,we are born without know it . God is supposely to be a perfect being and fairness is one of the atributes of god. When i mentioned that life is unfair is in the context of the huge differences between the persons . Some people have a better quality life than others and some people have worse life than anothers. I'm talking about circumstances that we dont have control.

If a perfect god created a brutal and cruel world that contradicts his attributes because that means that this god is brutal and cruel too.
The principal attribute of god according to theists is that god is a perfect being. One legit question is : why a " perfect " being created a imperfect world?

I see this thread as what questions you would make god if your face him.
In the context outside this thread of course this questions are for myself. I dont expect any deity to answer them because i dont believe in any.
 

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My question is harsher.

We demand that we act where unwarranted suffering takes place. A moral person fights tooth and nail against the suffering of innocents yet we imagine God to be omnipotent. With a whim, God could save the innocent from suffering yet God does nothing.

I've seen some reports from the deathcamps, I've seen reports on the Japanese "experiments" on allied soldiers in Manchuria.

Either God is omnipotent and indifferent or God is loving but impotent.

Neither is an acceptable excuse to worship the motherfucker for no truly loving person of conscience, let along a deity so floridly loving as the Judeo-Christain god could excuse inaction in the face of what is the most evil actions of man against man ever perpetrated. To suffer such torture and have the power to stop it, all the while alleging the greatest of love, without doing so is beneath contempt.

"Shit happens," is a pathetic excuse in traffic court, beyond (dare I say) inhuman in the court of all but the basest of morality.

I have seen no Jew or Christian answer this to my satisfaction and I am sure that I never shall.


Dont expect them to give you real answers to those questions.
 
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2322

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such acts are not only tests and lessons for the perpetrator but for the victim as well. and, perhaps on some level even more importantly, the witness...whether it be in the same room, on the television or in a textbook decades or centuries away. do we not learn from the cruelties in our past? perhaps not as well or as permanently as we should, but i think we do. i think humanity on the whole rises to the occasion against adversity and cruelty, that injustice and oppression are as valid muses as love and freedom. we are inspired to create, to invent, to overcome by such evils and ills that occur at the hands of our brothers. "evil" is the shit from which our flowers of compassion, nobility and love spring. there can be no good without evil...both as a standard of comparison and as an inspiration to fight against.

What possible lesson is there for an innocent who, by definition, is innocent? Not a damned thing. A person's life being snuffed out in the most horrible manner even before it has started has a lesson to learn? Pray tell us what that lesson is. I see no justice in such acts.

If the erasure of evil from the world means there would be no compassion, pity, or charity then by all means erase evil for I think any truly compassionate person alive would prefer never to feel those emotions for to feel them means another has to suffer. You're saying that without evil then Christianity has no value so let's be thankful for evil in the world so that our compassion can be tested. Let's rejoice in evil so that we can feel closer to God.

what greatness does it serve for God to step in like an overprotective parent and prevent us from ever harming each other?

Rescuing a person from torture or death at the hands of another is not being overprotective. What greatness does it serve God to allow suffering? What greatness in a deity is served when Bosnian death squads smash the heads of infants against brick walls? Who is God to allow the sacrifice of those children? Was Jesus not enough?

And love can well exist without evil. We do not need evil to tell us the value of love.

as a species and as spiritual beings, we HAVE to fall in order to learn how to pick ourselves up and also how to defend ourselves from falling that way again. and sadly, that means that some of us are going to be the ones doing the shoving from time to time. most times in response to being shoved ourselves. because the victim today becomes the perpetrator tomorrow. but becoming the bully does not raise us above the bully. and eventually someone has to break the chain and say "there's a better way." until a new obstacle comes along. the day all obstacles are removed from our path and there is no more conflict or injustice to rally against is the day we stagnate and cease growing.

So once again the evil triumphs over the innocent and weak. That's fine for a morality class, far different when such examples are made using human lives. God abandoned Jesus on the cross as he abandoned the victims in German gas chambers, in the highlands of Rwanda, and now in Sudan. I daresay everyday somewhere there is a person suffering unspeakable horrors at the hands of another who we may never know about.

If my growth comes at the expense of inhuman suffering then fine. I choose to stop growing here and now. I refuse to allow myself to feel better about myself because I'm not out there committing those horrors.

life is an act of constant creation. and creation is always a painful process. we do it to ourselves because we have to learn not to, as strange as that may sound. and to have God simply step in and settle it all for us and keep us from ever suffering defeats the purpose of why we're here to begin with.

But who is left to learn a lesson when the person who suffers is dead? Sorry, it just does not wash. Evil things happen to those who stand no lesson to learn, are not witnessed by anyone other than the perpetrator, and serve no higher purpose. By your argument if evil were to cease to happen we, as just men and women, would have to go out and make it happen so we can continue to learn. That's absurd. Peace and goodness do not necessitate violence and evil to exist save that they can be made in comparison. Do we need people to suffocate to remind us that we need oxygen? No. If no one in the world ever suffocated again we'd still know that oxygen was a good and necessary thing.