Originally posted by madame_zora+Jul 29 2005, 11:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madame_zora @ Jul 29 2005, 11:50 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-jonb@Jul 29 2005, 11:03 PM
Sorry, I've been on Linux since 2001.
[post=333131]Quoted post[/post]
And thanks to you I've been on it this year.
Yeah, you guys really have it going on. We'll just let all the white guys who own companies hire white guys to work for them and just expect it to self correct. GBO, I don't believe you said that. *hands cluephone to GBO* Hey, no one WANTS to give up a position of power voluntarily, even Chimera said that! If not forced kicking and screaming, it will never happen. I said clearly that employers should hold their employees accountable to do the work for which they were hired- if they don't, they can fill out the forms and fire their asses. How hard is it to snap a polaroid of someone sleeping on the job? How hard is it to keep attendance records? Not very, I managed. Just because it's not a perfect system doesn't mean no system at all would be preferable, but please, try maintaining that attitude with brown skin and tits. I doubt you'd feel the same if it was YOU. I had to work twice as hard as the white guy next to me to get promoted, if it was anywhere close, they'd pick him- that blows. I figured if I buried the next closest competitor I'd get the promotion, but I still might have to go through arbitration even with an enormous advantage on record. Not fair, not even close. Yeah, I managed to keep up the frantic pace necessary to progress, but I sure as shit burned out in ten years. I would have given anything to be one of the regular guys, just doing the job for which they were hired, maintaining the budget assigned instead of doubling and tripling it.
I was a single parent the whole time I was in sales, so it's not like my situation was less crucial than the next guys', but my accomplishments pretty well had to be extreme to be recognised. I actually had one manager who liked me a great deal when I started ask me (I was the ONLY one) to stop posting my sales on the board like everyone else because it was making the guys feel bad! Yeah, men's egos were actually considered part of MY job responsibilities! Fuck that, seriously.
I was made to feel ashamed of my accomplishments instead of congratulated for a job well done. The general feeling existed across the board in the mortgage business, cemetery business, home improvement sales, credit card processing and even things I was involved in less deeply. I must assume that since you yourself are not prejudiced, you have simply not seen or experienced these things yourself. I've had many white friends who couldn't believe I had men in hoods and robes in my front yard in Parkersburg WV in 1999 chanting "Nigger go home", but their lack of belief doesn't change the reality of what I experienced.
If someone as intelligent as yourself has arrived at such awful conclusions, there really is very little hope for racial and gender equality in the future. We already had what you suggest- no system, remember how well it worked? I seem to recall it sprouted a lot of riots for civil rights and the implementation of several (still widely ignored) laws. I'd be more in favor of setting up committees to oversee the hiring habits of companies to enforce the laws we have rather than scrapping the system and telling minorities to fuck off.
[post=333189]Quoted post[/post]
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Couple of points madam. First: I am not white, look at my avatar, I have brown skin.
Second: I did not say that free-enterprise evens itself out, that was another poster.
Thirdly: I did not advocate scrapping the system in exchange for no system at all. While I am against restricting freedom of thought (and discrimination falls into the sphere of thought or beliefs) I would be in favor of making hiring discrimination based on race and gender illegal.
My overall point about AA is that it doesn't get the job done, and is actually harmful because it does make a level playing field, it merely gives those that have had a disadvantage before an advantage now. If employers were "forced" to hire based solely on qualifications and minorities were more qualified, than it follows that more minorities would be hired. Simply making employers fill a quota only multiplies the problem. And also, would you feel right if you were given a job you hadn't earned simply because you are a woman of color or because you earned it? I know you would choose the latter based on your personality, and that you are only dissatisfied with the way things have been for you, that you couldn't advance when you were doing the job because you were a woman. Yes, I agree that is wrong. But is force really the answer? People will be prejudiced whether or not you force them to act otherwise. the real solution would be to attempt to change people's beliefs and take away their prejudices, show them how much a woman can do, make them realize that this isn't a man's world, and that women can do just as much. If they still choose not to promote you, then go into competition with them make them sorry you are not working for them, hit em where it hurts, it is not your right to get a promotion even if you feel you have earned it, thats the way the real world operates. Is the real world fucked up? Yes, but I know I'm not the first to point that out.
If we were to really attack the problem and better prepare minorities to compete with "the white man" in the marketplace then they would not need the handouts and quota-inspired prmotions. Who wants to be a lapdog? The answer is better education in the inner city, and also a little work from within minority communites so they can raise themselves up and stop living the way that they sometimes do. Welfare and affirmative action do nothing but placate people and keep them where there are. "Without struggle there is no progress" It takes hard work, and it shouldn't be easy. Forcing your enemy to act a certain way is not a victory. Showihng your enemy the errors of his ways and changing his attitudes goes a lot further.
I truly am sorry for what has happened to you in the past regarding your race, and I wish you never had to go through that. I wish people didn't think the way they do, but the only way to change their minds is not by force, but by actually showing them that they are wrong.
hilarious. once again demonstrating that you can safely ignore this moron as far as facts are concerned.
