Race and America

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by prepstudinsc@Jul 30 2005, 03:15 PM
GBO, don't worry about Zora, her vagina has teeth...that's what has been doing the talking here.

[post=333348]Quoted post[/post]​

still, at least we can differentiate her face from her ass.

 

[prepstudinsc]

unlike yours, you mean?

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by prepstudinsc@Jul 30 2005, 04:32 PM
I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I

[post=333379]Quoted post[/post]​

sure whatever, chunky

 

[prepstudinsc]

If you're going to quote me, at least quote what I said.

 

[Dr Rock]

it's not that entertaining yet

 

[madame_zora]

Well, this is very unlike you, GBO. You clearly said this, now you say you didn't. What's going on?

Originally posted by GottaBigOne@Jul 30 2005, 06:11 AM
If they still choose not to promote you, then go into competition with them make them sorry you are not working for them, hit em where it hurts, it is not your right to get a promotion even if you feel you have earned it, thats the way the real world operates.

[post=333283]Quoted post[/post]​

I was saying that it IS IN FACT MY LEGAL RIGHT TO GET A PROMOTION I'VE EARNED. No, it's not okay that I should be forced to change jobs and whole careers over and over to leverage the weight of my successes as collateral- it is something that you will never have to do, being a penis bearing mammal! Funny thing was, each new company was happy to hire me away from their competitors until they discovered I wouldn't take shit from THEM either. I guess they thought I'd be so grateful just to have a job that I'd tow the line- I didn't. I continued to speak up, I continued to help teach newer people my sales techniques, I continued to lead the ranks in sales, I continued to bring in donuts for the whole office even though I was low guy on the totem pole. I continued to get the most letters of commendation from my clients. I was never in a bad mood, never rude, but worked hard and stuck to my guns. When the time came for a promotion, I let it be know that I expected it, in a nice way. I'd lay out my track record privately to my boss and note my obvious communication abilities. The problem was, I was often far more qualified than my boss, which would scare the hell out of him.

We DO have laws that govern hiring and promotion practices that are still widely ignored. Believe me, very few people would want a hand out, the few that would are scum, but it seems you are largely unaware of how things really work and why so much effort to keep minorities down must be counteracted somehow. Honestly, I found it shocking myself, but having experienced it firsthand I feel obliged to let people know- "hey, this is what's really going on out there". Most people don't work for over 40 companies in seven different fields, so they probably are fairly familiar with how things work on their job, but not a lot more. Also, as I said before, if you're not prejudiced yourself, you wouldn't even notice it, why would you? It's not like anyone would have ever caught me crying in the hallway! I just gracefully packed up and left, job after job, time after time.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by prepstudinsc@Jul 30 2005, 03:15 PM
GBO, don't worry about Zora, her vagina has teeth...that's what has been doing the talking here.

[post=333348]Quoted post[/post]​

Thanks, prep. GBO and I do this all the time, I am sure with his brilliant mind he is capable of drawing his own conclusions. I would never waste that many words on you.

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Kim and I had a discussion a while back about a similar race-oriented thread and how she was a bit distressed with my silence on the matter. Aside from the bit of burnout I felt for having to teach white folks through personal experience what it's like being half-and-half, I can't get really enthused to talk or to share if it's going to result in these knock-down, drag-out kinds or ordeals.

Who's learning anything here? Who's willing to learn? Better yet, who's willing to get out of the trench of their own thinking to start really trying to get into the other person's experiences? I'm not seeing here. Or if I've overlooked it, it's probably with good reason since the last page or so has been nothing but back-and-forth with enough backhanded insulting for poor taste.

Translation: Even if people were indifferent to begin with, people really aren't going to give two shits about your experiences or your ideas if your goal is to insult the person you're trying to debate with. Even better if people say that they won't comment anymore on the issue and keep on going...

(Smells strangely familiar.)

Anyway, Jana probably has a chip on her shoulder for good reason. Then again, if the scientific types of the world gather together on the issue, they just want the empirical facts. Then again, Chimera's given us enough reason to doubt scientists, too. There is such a thing as biased fact-finding, and we needn't go back to the Bell Curve to get the idea.

So, Kim, maybe you've got the answer to my question. Took some time to see it, but it's just hard to really get into a good race discussion because (A) it's a contest of ego, to determine who's the most well-read or well-experienced, (B) it's up to a select few -- the minorities, here -- to face the pressure of telling life like it really is, and © there's not a whole lot of genuine interest.

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

P.S. "Chunky," whatever. Don't be mad 'cause there be more Prep to love.

 

[madame_zora]

Dee, on this issue I think you're right, no one really cares. I can't help but want to try to tell people what I've expereinced, but I have to admit that there really isn't much interest in either men wanting to see a woman's view or white people wanting to see a minorites perspective. What would be their motivation? All people are selfish and while I am highly motivated to see a more level playing field, I'm sure it is bacuse I have been discriminated against. Were it not so, I may not care as much either.

That being said, I'm not gay and I vociferously support gay rights. I'm not Muslim and I support their right to practise their religion, etc. I don't know what the answer is, I really don't.

 

[naughty]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jul 30 2005, 09:34 PM
Dee, on this issue I think you're right, no one really cares. I can't help but want to try to tell people what I've expereinced, but I have to admit that there really isn't much interest in either men wanting to see a woman's view or white people wanting to see a minorites perspective. What would be their motivation?  All people are selfish and while I am highly motivated to see a more level playing field, I'm sure it is bacuse I have been discriminated against. Were it not so, I may not care as much either.

That being said, I'm not gay and I vociferously support gay rights. I'm not Muslim and I support their right to practise their religion, etc. I don't know what the answer is, I really don't.

[post=333456]Quoted post[/post]​

Jana,

That could be because you are evolved. Heh, I have to hand it to you, sister. You tried to fight the good fight .It wore me out the last time around.


Dee,

Thank you as well. What can one say? I guess we all have to just keep on moving and carry a big baseball bat! LOL!


Kim

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by DeeBlackthorne@Jul 30 2005, 09:00 PM
Even if people were indifferent to begin with, people really aren't going to give two shits about your experiences or your ideas if your goal is to insult the person you're trying to debate with.

[post=333447]Quoted post[/post]​

I ain't debating here. I just saw prepstudinsc talking shit about madame_zora and felt it was in the interest of the general readership and informed discussion to point out that he was making said comments from the position of being fat and ugly. I mean, don't be blaming the messenger here folks!

 

[Lex]

Originally posted by Dr. Dilznick+Jul 29 2005, 07:30 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr. Dilznick &#064; Jul 29 2005, 07:30 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Lex
can&#39;t you see that the acknowledgement of people of less skin color being superior to people of (more) color has lead to the world wide colonization of almost every continent?

Race may have been a justification, but it wasn&#39;t a cause. The resources Africa had were the main reason Europeans raped it. In other words, there&#39;s nothing about being "racially aware" that causes someone to oppress minorities, or conquer, or colonize or anything else.

[post=332888]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


I was speaking to more than just the colonization of Africa.

 

[Shamrock]

Originally posted by madame_zora+Jul 30 2005, 09:50 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madame_zora &#064; Jul 30 2005, 09:50 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-jonb@Jul 29 2005, 11:03 PM
Sorry, I&#39;ve been on Linux since 2001.

[post=333131]Quoted post[/post]​

And thanks to you I&#39;ve been on it this year.

Yeah, you guys really have it going on. We&#39;ll just let all the white guys who own companies hire white guys to work for them and just expect it to self correct. GBO, I don&#39;t believe you said that. *hands cluephone to GBO* Hey, no one WANTS to give up a position of power voluntarily, even Chimera said that&#33; If not forced kicking and screaming, it will never happen. I said clearly that employers should hold their employees accountable to do the work for which they were hired- if they don&#39;t, they can fill out the forms and fire their asses. How hard is it to snap a polaroid of someone sleeping on the job? How hard is it to keep attendance records? Not very, I managed. Just because it&#39;s not a perfect system doesn&#39;t mean no system at all would be preferable, but please, try maintaining that attitude with brown skin and tits. I doubt you&#39;d feel the same if it was YOU. I had to work twice as hard as the white guy next to me to get promoted, if it was anywhere close, they&#39;d pick him- that blows. I figured if I buried the next closest competitor I&#39;d get the promotion, but I still might have to go through arbitration even with an enormous advantage on record. Not fair, not even close. Yeah, I managed to keep up the frantic pace necessary to progress, but I sure as shit burned out in ten years. I would have given anything to be one of the regular guys, just doing the job for which they were hired, maintaining the budget assigned instead of doubling and tripling it.

I was a single parent the whole time I was in sales, so it&#39;s not like my situation was less crucial than the next guys&#39;, but my accomplishments pretty well had to be extreme to be recognised. I actually had one manager who liked me a great deal when I started ask me (I was the ONLY one) to stop posting my sales on the board like everyone else because it was making the guys feel bad&#33; Yeah, men&#39;s egos were actually considered part of MY job responsibilities&#33; Fuck that, seriously.
I was made to feel ashamed of my accomplishments instead of congratulated for a job well done. The general feeling existed across the board in the mortgage business, cemetery business, home improvement sales, credit card processing and even things I was involved in less deeply. I must assume that since you yourself are not prejudiced, you have simply not seen or experienced these things yourself. I&#39;ve had many white friends who couldn&#39;t believe I had men in hoods and robes in my front yard in Parkersburg WV in 1999 chanting "Nigger go home", but their lack of belief doesn&#39;t change the reality of what I experienced.

If someone as intelligent as yourself has arrived at such awful conclusions, there really is very little hope for racial and gender equality in the future. We already had what you suggest- no system, remember how well it worked? I seem to recall it sprouted a lot of riots for civil rights and the implementation of several (still widely ignored) laws. I&#39;d be more in favor of setting up committees to oversee the hiring habits of companies to enforce the laws we have rather than scrapping the system and telling minorities to fuck off.

[post=333189]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


Programs like affirmative action are just blatantly anti-white. I believe that no matter who
you are, your rewards should be achieved on your ability, not your disability. Do you think
places like brazil or Jamaica run affirmative action programs to help minority whites?
No they don&#39;t, and the same thing happens there as all over the world - the majority are
going to get a better deal simply because they are in power and things are geared toward
them. Thats why instinctively the majority of any country becomes concerned about massive
immigration intakes - it may threaten the power structure, and historically, and today, the
people in power are most concerned with overseeing the welfare of their own people.
So if the migrants overtake the original majority in population numbers, get into positions of
power, they won&#39;t be passing laws to benefit the original people now will they?

Why do you think homosapiens became the dominant species of all the humanoid races?
Because our ancestors were more aggressive and killed the more peaceful live and let live
types. Is discrimmination fair? No, but life isn&#39;t fair, and maybe one day whites will be the
minority and we&#39;ll have to go through all the crap the minorities of today have to endure.

As far as comments like "redneck" go, isn&#39;t that a touch hypocritical? Seeing as only white
people get red necks due to sun burn. Isnt that a racist term? I&#39;d like to see how people react
if I called a racist black man a nigger. Nobody seemed to jump in horror at some terms used
here that are racist to white people? Seemed like it was accepted without an eyebrow raise.
And people always seem to go into great detail about white supremacist groups.
Other races do have their own racial superiority groups you know.
The Black Panthers (yes I know, not around anymore) used to go out and rape white women
as a way of protesting, but nobody mentions it.
Fact is racism runs just as strongly both ways, but lets all pretend its just white people who
are racist.
People call the NAACP a respected civil rights group, but is it not racially based?
And on the other hand if a similar group were set up to help poor whites, it would be called
racist, no?


If a group called the NAAUP (National Association for the Advancement of Underprivlidged
People) were formed, which helped all groups, and didn&#39;t draw a colour line,
then a lot these groups, which cause more friction than they resolve, wouldn&#39;t be needed.

Im white and I came from a very poor family, and for the government pass laws saying this
person is going to be promoted because of his/her skin colour just makes people resent that
group. I never went to first year high school, but now I&#39;m a personal trainer and I earn an
okay wage cause I worked all the shit jobs til I could afford to get educated and paid for my
Fitness Education course.

In finality, all this work to prevent discrimination actually causes more, because people
naturally get pissed off when they see special favours being given out. Human nature is what
it is and its not gonna change cause some politician says "Oh this is the way we do things now." People may not say anything, but their actions, subtle or overt, will betray their true
instincts and feelings.

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by Shamrock@Aug 7 2005, 10:33 AM
As far as comments like "redneck" go, isn&#39;t that a touch hypocritical? Seeing as only white people get red necks due to sun burn. Isnt that a racist term?

[post=333644]Quoted post[/post]​

hahaha. no, that&#39;s nothing to do with the origins of the term. it actually originated in scotland in the 17th century, when the Covenanters would wear red scarves to proclaim their allegiance, so the term "redneck" became synonymous with "presbyterian dissenter" in england at the time. many early settlers in what would become the southern USA were from scottish or northern irish presbyterian families, hence ex-english settlers continued to refer to them as "rednecks."

fuck I know some useless shit

 

[naughty]

Originally posted by Dr Rock+Aug 7 2005, 10:01 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr Rock &#064; Aug 7 2005, 10:01 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Shamrock@Aug 7 2005, 10:33 AM
As far as comments like "redneck" go, isn&#39;t that a touch hypocritical? Seeing as only white people get red necks due to sun burn. Isnt that a racist term?

[post=333644]Quoted post[/post]​

hahaha. no, that&#39;s nothing to do with the origins of the term. it actually originated in scotland in the 17th century, when the Covenanters would wear red scarves to proclaim their allegiance, so the term "redneck" became synonymous with "presbyterian dissenter" in england at the time. many early settlers in what would become the southern USA were from scottish or northern irish presbyterian families, hence ex-english settlers continued to refer to them as "rednecks."

fuck I know some useless shit

[post=333696]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

LOL&#33;

You are talking about the ancestors of a number of us now&#33; That makes so much sense&#33; Thank you very much .Some of my folks came from the South are generationally Presbyterian and of Ulster Scott or Scotch -Irish ancestry .So when they get feisty I guess they just cant help it. Now Iwill tell my brother his Ford 150 is in the genes&#33; LOL&#33;

Naughty

 

[GottaBigOne]

Shamrock, that was my basic point, that affirmative action is defended as combating racial disrcimination but it actully encourages racial discrimination because people are getting hired because of their skin color and nothing else (no matter what that skin color is) If one wants to say that racial discrimination is wrong then one must be consistent and say that affirmative actiuon is wrong. Some people seem to believe that two wrongs make a right, and that wronging the group that has received and still receives in some cases certain preferences will somehow even everything out.
The greatest form of hypocrisy that I see is how certain people who say they are against sexism, or racism, also seem to think that unless your a minority woman you can&#39;t understand either. Doesn&#39;t that seem sexist and racist to anyone else??

 

[jonb]

@Chimera:
It&#39;s funny. I don&#39;t remember South Africa for whites being discriminated against. In fact, their constitution (post-apartheid) specifically says racial discrimination is illegal. But leave it to you to interpret that as discrimination against whites.

As for Brazil, the CIA says whites are a majority.

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by jonb@Aug 8 2005, 12:47 AM
It&#39;s funny. I don&#39;t remember South Africa for whites being discriminated against. In fact, their constitution (post-apartheid) specifically says racial discrimination is illegal.

[post=333724]Quoted post[/post]​

oh, it is. but to my shock and amazement, he actually does have a valid point in that the south african authorities have done virtually nothing to enforce that law in the case of anti-white racism - and it IS a big (and growing) problem there.

 

[jonb]

I thought that was Zimbabwe.

The media would be all over it if it was South Africa. Unlike (say) slavery in (U.S.-friendly) Sudan or genocide in (equally U.S.-friendly) Indonesia.