GBO, I know I have a short fuse on some topics, such as this, but in sincerity I can tell you that I was not trying to insult you personally, but the ideas you presented before the site went down. I don't think that it's not POSSIBLE for a man to have sympathetic views to women's issues, just that they generally DON'T. Once again, your ideals are fine, maybe even perfect, but they do not correspond very well with reality. I have a great deal of respect for your idealism and many times you have caused me to think more consicely about my own ideals. This I find valuable, but there is a point at which reality overtakes my desire to converse hypothetically, I hope you understand the difference.
You asked me why I assume that greater representation would give minorities better circumstances, well that's because that's how it's HAPPENED. One can't really deny what's already in the past. It's already recorded in the annals of time, there is really no logical argument against it. It's not really an "us against them" situation, it's more that many of the men in power need "permission" for lack of a better word to do the right thing. We were talking about exceptions earlier, well not every white male is exceptional either! Exceptional means perhaps the top 5 or 10 percent, that still leaves the vast majority of people with a long way to go. Logically, most minorities, women, men of all races, fall into a more average category and will be more likely to just follow the status quo unless they feel safe that their own livelihoods will not be threatened if they take a stand out against the pack. Minorities have less, so they have less to lose by standing up for their own rights. Nobody cares about your money more than you do, right? So the same is true of rights. There can never be equality without representation, the entire history of the world proves that.
By the way, what have I ever suggested that was so radical? I haven't suggested implementing NEW laws, only enforcing the ones we have. Isn't that what you said as well? I don't really see myself as a radical. I pointed out that in the real world, in my own personal experience, it was very rare that the laws were being observed, and I suggested ways of monitoring employment practices to see that they were observed, that doesn't seem radical to me, just common sense. I don't advocate a free ride for anyone, only holding people's feet to the fire to do what our country has already decided it wants us to do. This should be over and done with by now, my frustration is mainly that it is NOT over, and we are still arguing the merits of respecting each other's rights.
You seem to be advocating very similar ideas as mine, only "not by force", but when has ANY change come about by any other means? Gandhi got labeled by the press as heading a movement of "passive resistance", but he would be the first to say he never advocated anything passive! He advocated agressive, non-violent non-compliance. He was a mastermind at utilizing the press to expose the evils of the British army at their worst and got it published around the world for all to see. Once people knew, really KNEW what was going on there, the shame was so great that they had no choice but to leave or risk worldwide humiliation. I am certainly suggesting something far less radical than that! Even Chimera points out that no one would voluntarily surrender a position of priveledge, that seems obvious. I understand the resistance of men in power to give it up, but give it up they will. I have a vested interest in seeing it happen in my lifetime- it's MY life, not yours, that will be affected. It's my daughter's life as well. Honestly, as one human being to another, have you no compassion?
I DO NOT advocate "white guilt" although Chimera has tacked that on me several times. Guilt is a wasted emotion, completely useless. It doesn't help me at all for anyone to feel bad, that's pure bullshit. I have only EVER stood up for admission of reality, acceptance that what has been done, has been done. If we disagree with it now, we are obligated to make a new decision based on this information. Throwing our hands up in the air and saying "oops" doesn't cut it. If I found out my friend stole your bike, but I didn't find out until years later, I wouldn't owe you a new bike, but as a human being, I would probably take an above average interest in seeing that you had a way to get around. I didn't do the wrong, nor am I responsible for it, but I do care that you're okay. That's all I am suggesting in this situation. Sadly, most people wouldn't care that you were okay unless it was their legal obligation to care. As a hiring employer, I would NEVER pass over a qualified white man in preference of a woman or black man, but I would look for qualified women and minorities, whenever possible. Why? Because they worked their asses off. They were so happy to be given a chance, they had something to prove to me. The three promotions I made were (in this order) a white man, a white woman and a black man. All were exceptional workers, all were promoted on merit. The differnce was I had to go to the batting cages to get approval to promote the second two. It was bullshit. All three of them were at the top of the ranks in sales at the times of their respective promotions, and this was within a company that was far above average at hiring practices. They STILL didn't want "those people" climbing to the top! Funny, it was a brown woman who fought for their rights. Get my point here? Fortunately I had a great ally in my immediate supervisor who had hired me, and his word was gold so he made sure I got what I wanted. If not for him, my experiences would have been quite different, but even HE would not have done this on his own. We had a love-hate realtionship. He trained me to sell, so he got to brag about my success "even though I was a girl". I had to threaten to quit all the time to get him to give in to my wishes, and he didn't want to lose his bragging rights, so he did it. After a while it became more of a game than an actual threat, but the first few times, I had to be honestly ready to give it all up to stand up for what I believed in. Most people will never do that. I always had my costume business to fall back on if I needed fast cash.
You make me miss New York. I think that place has got it right better than anyplace else in the country, but there is also a lot of racial convergence in Chicago, LA, and most of the major cities I've spent time in. The thing is, only about 40% of our population lives in major metropolitan areas, the rest are in smaller towns who are not doing nearly so well! I think perhaps your feeling that enough correction has taken place may be in part because of the situation in your hometown. Believe me, I can appreciate this. Being from Cincinnati, which is far smaller but still a city, I didn't really know how bad things were elsewhere until I had to live in Coshocton Ohio, Bowling Green Kentucky, and Parkersburg West Virginia. Minority there still means "nigger" and they don't mind telling you so. It's harder to be the bigger person in a place like that. "Why aren't you home baking brownies?" is an acceptable way to address a woman professional in some places. I doubt YOU'D be passive about that either.