"Racism" charges Prof. Gates

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_Stronzo, Jul 21, 2009.

  1. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    And in my view racism it is.

    This is all over the Boston local news and it's entirely newsworthy.

    Professor Henry Louis Gates from Harvard is the fellow who's done extensive work on helping African Americans with their ancestry and sub-Saharan roots. He's a well-known speaker in and about Cambridge and Boston.


    I've followed Professor Gates's work both with the larger media (PBS Special) and his work here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and on his lecture circuit

    THIS

    ...will give you an idea of how alive and well racism is in this country even in liberal ol' Massachusetts.

    Scratch just beneath that surface and voilĂ .

    Bravo Professor Gates. Hold your ground. It's come at no small price.
     
    #1 B_Stronzo, Jul 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2009
  2. dude252007

    dude252007 New Member

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    A concerned neighbor saw someone force their way into the apartment which the Professor admitted because the door was stuck. He then argues with the police over showing ID and does finally show a non government issued ID even though he does have a government issued ID which is the only ID the police are allowed to count as valid. You can't blame the black guy because that would be racist. You can't blame any one who is a minority for anything that person does. Strange because I live in San Francisco where whites are a minority but you are still allowed to blame white people for what they do. I guess the person to blame is the concerned neighbor and the police for trying to make sure no one was breaking into the apartment. Of course if it was a robbery then the guy would have blamed the cops because they are racist and not protecting a black man's house and he'll say that's what it means to be black in America. Again, a double standard because whites are not allowed to say what it means to be white in America which is having to deal with so called white guilt over slavery which no one alive today had slaves or were ever a slave.
     
    #2 dude252007, Jul 21, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  3. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    If he were "white" and told the Police that it was HIS house, I would venture to guess that would have been the end of it, no request for an ID would have been forthcoming.
     
  4. nudeyorker

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    I would like to get the actual facts, on the news last night they reported that he did not identify himself as the owner. I think there is more here than meets the eye on what is being reported. BTW after I was caught breaking in to my home after I broke the key in the front door...I was asked for ID after I explained what had happened.
     
  5. Principessa

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    :261: is a non government ID? His Harvard work ID which I know for a fact has a picture on it and should have been suficient.

    Agreed!
     
  6. nudeyorker

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  7. hypoc8

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    Horse Shit!! This racist crap gets so tiresome.
     
  8. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    I agree hypoc8. This 'racism crap' gets so tiresome it reminds me of homophobia in that way.

    I wish people would simply stop doing it.
     
  9. Flashy

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    While it is understandable that it is an upsetting situation, frankly some perspective needs to taken.

    I as a white man have had two similar experiences...one when i locked my keys in my car, and once when i was locked out of my college apartment building....each time, after trying to force my way in, when nothing else was working, eventually the police were called, both times by a concerned neighbor.

    that is what good or concerned neighbors do...if something looks suspicious, they call the cops.

    Both times, the situations were extremely inconvenient, and involved me calmly, rationally, discussing the situation with the police who arrived...*IMMEDIATELY* with no hesitation or complaint, showing every piece of ID i had, completely explaining the situation, then waiting for the situation to be resolved, no matter how long it take, being polite, and deferential to the police officer *AT ALL TIMES*. Saying Yes Sir, No sir, yes officer, of course officer...i understand officer...

    if we can call my father he can bring the spare key to the car, and then i can show you the registration when we get the car open...or, you can call up to my roomate in the apartment, and he can confirm who i am and that i am a resident, or you can call the university office of residential life, who can confirm it...

    the fact is, that while i certainly understand the racial slant many have faced such as "driving while black" or living in a nice home, ( i am reminded of the hysterical Dave Chappelle routine about the police knocking him over the head with a billy club... the :49 second mark)

    YouTube - Dave Chappelle's Funny Ass Shit

    "apparently this ni**er broke in and hung pictures of his family everywhere"


    the fact is, the policeman was doing his *JOB*. he did not beat Professor Gates or spout racial profanity.

    and he was not arrested for being black and in his home,...he was arrested for disorderly conduct *after* he behaved badly, outside of his home including yelling at the police.

    what do you expect? Yelling at the cops is *NOT* a good idea...this guy is supposed to be a genius intellectual, knows the situation and starts telling at the police? What did he think would happen?

    YOU DO NOT YELL AT COPS, NO MATTER WHAT COLOR YOU ARE! It always ends with you arrested. If you happen to be black, i would say that increases the chances dramatically.

    let us look at what happened

    1. A concerned Neighbor sees two african american man forcing open a dorr to a house...not knowing the circumstance, concerned neighbor calls police. If these were two white men, or hispanic men, or asian men, forcing open a door, the neighbor would likely have done the same. two men forcing open a door in an upscale neighborhood, is suspiscious, no matter what color you are,....undoubtedly, being black does not help matters.

    2. Policeman (or men) show up promptly, responding to the call, doing their job.

    3. this is what happened, according to Gates' lawyer and the police report, (from the MSNBC link, provided by Nude Yorker)

    -
    The professor was inside for several minutes when a police officer, Sgt. James Crowley, appeared at his steps and asked him to step outside, the lawyer said.
    According to his lawyer, Gates told the officer he lived there and showed him his Massachusetts driver's license and Harvard University identification card. The officer followed him into his house and said he had received a report of a possible break-in, the lawyer said. Gates grew frustrated that the officer was continuing to question him in his home and asked for the officer's name and badge number, Ogletree said.

    The police report offers a different account of the incident.
    Gates refused to step outside to speak with the officer, the police report said, and when Crowley told Gates that he was investigating a possible break-in, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said.
    "While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me," he said, according to the report.
    The report said Gates initially refused to show the officer identification, but eventually produced a Harvard identification card, prompting Crowley to radio for Harvard University Police.


    Gates followed the officer outside and continued to accuse him of racial bias, the report said. After Crowley warned the professor twice that he was becoming disorderly, the officer wrote he arrested Gates for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space."
    Ogletree said the professor was "very frustrated" but never touched or pointed at the officer.


    --

    4. the officer has a job to do, regardless of if Gates lived there. If a police officer asks you to step outside, so he can do his job properly, you comply.

    5. This is a man with doctorate who teaches at Harvard...he should understand and appreciate the situation, and respond as calmly, clearly, with as little frustration, provocation and anger as possible. The fact is, as an owner of property, he should be esepcially aware and appreciative of the fact, that the police showed up rapidly, and took concrete, deliberate, lengthy and proper steps to ascertain exactly, and solidly through several layers of confirmation, that the person who indeed appeared to be forcing his way into a property owners vacant domicile, was indeed that person.

    Instead, he grew "frustrated"...doubtless because he felt he was being persecuted racially...sadly, that shows that this brilliant man, really is not quite so brilliant. The officer was there protecting *HIS* home...all he needed to do was remain calm, go outside, work with the officer, work with the Harvard police, work with a neighbor if possible, and *FOLLOW* instructions. Say "yes officer", "no officer"...yes sir, i work in the department of such and such, yes sir the person next door can vouch for me...and comply as honestly, nicely and calmly as possible.

    6. the fact is, he was not arrested for being black, or breaking into the house, or being suspicious...he was arrested for disorderly conduct and he was being disorderly...not to mention he absolutely failed to do *EXACTLY* what civil rights & race experts always advise innocent people of all races to do when in contact with the police. *COOPERATE & COMPLY FULLY*



    does this mean it is nice or fair? No. Have unfair race based issues like this happened in the past to innocent african americans? Absolutely.

    But what exactly did a scholar, expect to happen when he chose not to resolve the situation as intelligently, deferentially, calmly, and as cooperatively as possible?

    Due to his intelligence, he should know it better than any one else. It is an unfortunate situation.
     
  10. Flashy

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    actually stronz, i believe that hypoc8 was taking issue with Industrialsize' stupid and absurd claim that If he were "white" and told the Police that it was HIS house, I would venture to guess that would have been the end of it, no request for an ID would have been forthcoming....

    which is rather far from the truth :smile:

    Even someone as deranged as Industrialsize should know, that upon receiving reports of two white people forcing their way into a vacant house, that police who simply said oh "Okay" and not asked for ID from the white guys would in fact be in gross dereliction of duty, and in violation of proper police procedure. There is no indication whatsoever of Industrialsize' idiotic, not to mention false contention.

    the unfortunate situation not withstanding with Mr. Gates, Industrialsize' absurd contention is pure Bullshit.
     
    #10 Flashy, Jul 21, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  11. D_Stanford Dedwillie III

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    This is a shame. Professor Gates will take a severe blow to his formerly respectable reputation. Hopefully he won't be banished into the Al Sharpton camp permanently.
     
  12. invisibleman

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  13. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    Quick update folks:

    Professor Gates and the Cambridge Police Department (which has dropped the disorderly conduct charges) have presented a joint statement calling the entire incident "regrettable".

    Professor Gates is arguably the best-known African American Intellectual in America.

    This serves as a powerful example I think.

    Having been born and raised in the greater Boston area there has historically been a disconnect between the Irish-American generational Bostonians (who make up much of both the Cambridge and Boston City Police force) and the generational African-American Bostonian.

    It dates back (in my memory of it) to the days of Louise Day Hicks and forced bussing. In those days you'd swear there was no appreciable difference between Boston and Selma.

    I know flash. If you reread my post it was laced with sarcasm. My bad.:tongue: I agree with Industrialsize's comment 100%.
     
    #13 B_Stronzo, Jul 21, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  14. nudeyorker

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    I remember it more like this!
    /www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoP8-905xlk
    In terms of the rest, I think the name calling here is unnecessary; you don't know what will happen until it happens. But as I stated earlier in this thread I was caught breaking into my own house; where I live white blonde people are not the majority, however I feel that the police were doing their job and feel confident that if I'm not home and someone else tries to break in and say that they live in my house the police would follow the same protocol.
     
  15. Flashy

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    stronz, while i don't doubt the absolute fact of historical enmity and bias between the police and black community memebers, the simple fact that police would not bother to check a white man's ID after he and another white man were spotted forcing their way into a vacant home is total nonsense.

    I mean seriously...

    2 white men forcing their way into home...police officer comes after phone call.

    Police Man: What are you doing here...we got a report of two men forcing their way into this house.
    Man 1: It's my house...
    Man 2: Yeah, it's his house...
    Policm Man: Okay see you later...

    somehow I do not think that is how Industrialsize's scenario plays out.
     
  16. invisibleman

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    I think that if the police are asking you to come out in order to investigate a break-in by a neighbor who called 9-1-1. Yeah, the Professor had a right to stay in his house. I think that it would've been better if he had came out of his house to clarify the situation. The police didn't know.

    But I understand all views. The police has a duty to protect and to serve. And Gates was trying to get into his home. And the neighbor thought it was burglary.

    There is a manner in which to communicate with the police in order not to exascerbate things. But I think all that happened was a misunderstanding.

    I don't think that anyone is special under the law. We all have rights.
     
  17. invisibleman

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    I know that that wasn't the real Oprah Winfrey and Tom Cruise video. I was only being foolish. Flashy gave a Dave Chappelle link...and I thought that I would volley one back.

    Seriously, I understand what you mean and I understood the situation between all parties' views: Henry Louis Gates, and the police. There is a certain way to communicate with the police. And Professor Gates was only trying to get into his house...and a neighbor thought that it was a burglary. Everything was a misunderstanding.
     
  18. b.c.

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    No, unfortunately, Industrialsize's remark is not far from the truth at all.
     
  19. nudeyorker

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    OK you caught me this is the real video
    YouTube - Tom Cruise Kills Oprah
    Meanwhile I thanked my neighbor for calling the police when I was trying to break in to my house. I'm not always there and appreciate that someone who I don't know well is looking after my house. I'm not trying to open another can of worms but I know how to deal with the police and some people don't and that is where the problems start.
     
  20. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    Gates showed two forms of ID after his initial statement flash.

    The scuttlebutt on the local news is that by the time the Cambridge PD arrived Gates and his friend were already inside the foyer of the house and when the police asked to come in Gates allowed them in.

    He showed them his Mass. Driver's License and his Harvard ID. When Gates asked for the officer's info (badge # and name) the officer refused to give it. That's what's out there for local consumption.

    I'll watch the 11:00 local news to see any updates.

    It appears from what Couric's nightly broadcast intimated that both Gates and the Cambridge Police want an end to the thing. We'll see. I know that neighborhood in Cambridge and it's 99% white. In my opinion (again I want to state in my opinion) the woman who called the Cambridge police to report what she deemed a breaking and entering made a rush to judgment. The man with Gates was his driver from Logan Airport ... and the suitcases were on the porch.

    The weather here in New England has been atrociously wet and humid and we've not seen a summer like this in eighty years. I suspect (as mine was this afternoon) Gates's door was swollen shut from humidity and weather.

    The only fault I find with Gates is that he appeared to become immediately confrontational in that he said "this is how it is for a black man living in America" to the police (which would not fall on sympathetic ears to a Cambridge white police officer). But then again there's truth in Gates's statement too.

    I can tell you from my own experience that being singled out as a minority for negative attention is a very unsettling thing. What that minority may be is irrelevant to how it feels to be singled out when one is minding his own business let alone (Gates) trying to get in his front door.

    I'm just saying....
     
    #20 B_Stronzo, Jul 21, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
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