Racism haunts Obama

BullPumpr

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HyperHulk - but that is the point - its not about a Presidential candidate being Black - it's about - militarism - the trump card in this country and the Republicans have developed a strong, fear-mongering strategy around it. Any intelligent person could not possibly fear a Black, an Asian, a woman, a Catholic, an Unitarian as President - they fear the "Great Invader," the unseen terrorist, the upcoming Super-Power (any guesses?) - and this fear will trump reason, a fight to save our planet, and a Society of Sensibility. Continued domination by Republican strategists on the White House will lead to the annihilation of society as the world knows it.

The eternal optimist,
BullPumpr
 

D_Chocho_Lippz

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I don't think that's what she means.
Despite the mindsets of some black people who would not judge Rice for not supporting Affirmative Action, there are several who would. This view comes from people who are worse off than those who may have grew up like Condolezza; those whose economic & social class is so low on the totem poll that they need all the help they can get. Some of these people have grown to become so discouraged with the way things are run, they feel as if they have nothing to look forward to and lose the drive to succeed. And yes, they do look at the people who are in office like Condoleeza who do have power and see hope. They want to see her as a woman who is just like them. However, when these people see someone of power who is supposed to be "for the people", who claims that they understand the pain & suffering of the poor then does (or says) something that goes completely against that belief, they're going to get angry.

To some black people, it looks hypocritical for a black woman to get to a position of power, then vote against the same policy that probably got her there to begin with. And I can understand why they feel that way. It's not enough to tell some people to stay positive and keep moving forward. If they feel as if they're stuck in a situation that they can't escape, it's going to take a lot more than the image of politician of the same skin tone to motivate them. They need to see actions that support poor people, and people that go against Affirmative Action is one that doesn't support them.
Thanks VB. From what I understand of Condi, she did get benefits from Affirmative Action; however, it was not like she was completely under qualified for a job - in fact, she was quite qualified and where she got her AA at, the place was not begrudgingly accepting her work and were quite pleased with the work she did. Again, I believe everyone should be offered a job, but the job should be offered on the merits of the individual, not the group they belong to. Maybe AA had a place back then... but does that mean that it has a place today?

I guess the whole thing with AA that I do not understand is why other minorities are not so prudent at keeping AA alive. Some minorities, such as asians, have never asked for anything and they do quite well. And it's not like anglos have treated them well all the time either. Remember WWII? Yeah, we made them all just get up and go to interm camps because they were "suspicious." I guess I don't understand why one group wants nothing to do with AA, and another feels that it is absolutely nessisary.
 

Principessa

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LOL. Exactly the attitude that holds us all back IMHO. It is the you vs us mentality - black vs white. You can't be black unless you believe in X, Y, and Z mentality. Black Person ABC got to where they are and now they are ditching us, sellout!
Us? I'm sorry, I am not a gold member; but you don't look like one of "us". Therefore nobody is holding you back or down. Speaking as a black woman with a number of degrees. I have always sought to give back to the black community and in some instances be a role model for inner city youth. I must have missed the press junket and the subsequent sound bites where Ms. Rice did the same thing. :mad:

There are those that questioned my motives, as I did not grow up, in the ghetto with a single mother. I was reared in the upper-middle class, white suburbs of Monmouth County, NJ with 2 parents. But I didn't grow up ignorant to past or current struggles of my people. It has always been important in my family, not to forget from whence we came.



Why can't you look at the positive here NJ? Why can't all blacks look up to the most powerful black person in America today and go, "hey, if she made it, so can I." Affirmative Action or not, did CR just get handed her PhD? Hell no! She personally worked hard to get that. She took the personal initiative to get it done. Why can't other minorities look to her and do the same?
Because the point you and many others miss is that if not for affirmative action the doors to those places would have been closed to her. It would not have mattered how intelligent she was. The doors were closed to black women for many decades until the AA came along.


Correct me if I am wrong, but do you believe that the only way a black person can succeed is via Affirmative Action? (That is what I am getting out of your above post).
Why should all blacks look up to her? I am not looking up to that woman ever. I don't care if she is appointed vice-president. :mad:
 

Principessa

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so are you saying black people are the only ones who vote on color?? does it seem impossible that a white person could vote for another white person just to see their own race remain in power??
I believe that is called the status quo, not impossible. :tongue:


i'll go on record any day saying there are probably hundreds of black people who never voted until obama, and probably can't even spell his name but just wanna see a black president. if you think we're the only race that's done this you're sadly mistaken.
You are probably correct.
 

HyperHulk

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I've been at work all day so wasn't able to respond to the comments on this thread. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed their thoughts.

I was reading something online that kind of speaks to the issues I've raised, although I'm not sure I agree with it per se. Basically the writer argues that the resistance to Obama originates from his mixed ethnicity--that his biracial nature is morally offensive to some.

Here's a bit of what was written:

The ultimate taboo, really. For older people, and people who live in areas that have long been predominantly white, the miscegenation issue is the last bastion of knee-jerk racial identity. And whites are not alone in this. Every well-defined racial and cultural group has this taboo actively at play, even today, regardless of political bent.

When an older female Clinton supporter refuses to believe Obama is not muslim, or a young West Virginian hankers for someone a bit more "full-blooded" than Obama, they are using code-words for the ultimate threatening "other", the other that sneaks into your home and screws your daughter and destroys your bloodline.


The very qualities that allow Obama to cross racial and cultural divides with his message of unity, that make him a "non-threatening black man", also make him anathema.

Source: The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

I guess I find this difficult to believe because it doesn't seem like Obama is viewed as anything other than Black, even though he grew up and was raised in predominately "White" environments. It doesn't seem that people are that aware or focused on his mixed ethnicity status, but I don't know what people talk about.

It's refreshing to know though that I'm not the only one trying to understand what's motivating some people to maintain their racism against Obama, who defies virtually all conventional stereotypes? Sociologically I find this fascinating.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Thanks VB. From what I understand of Condi, she did get benefits from Affirmative Action; however, it was not like she was completely under qualified for a job - in fact, she was quite qualified and where she got her AA at, the place was not begrudgingly accepting her work and were quite pleased with the work she did. Again, I believe everyone should be offered a job, but the job should be offered on the merits of the individual, not the group they belong to. Maybe AA had a place back then... but does that mean that it has a place today?

What if you had two canididates for a high profile job with the same skills and qualifications? One was a white male and the other was a minority or a woman? Back before Affirmative Action was in place many of these companies would stick to the white male, claiming that he would provide a better look for their image or whatever reason thet could come up with. That's one of the main reasons why it's in the laws today. And while I'm not going to debate whether or not that's right or wrong in every case, I always thought that a diverse crowd looked better than one where everyone looked and somehow acted the same way. Affirmative Action is to diversify the workplace, which directly benefits people of different races and women. It's not just for Black People, although certain media outlets are very good at protraying that.

I guess the whole thing with AA that I do not understand is why other minorities are not so prudent at keeping AA alive. Some minorities, such as asians, have never asked for anything and they do quite well. And it's not like anglos have treated them well all the time either. Remember WWII? Yeah, we made them all just get up and go to interm camps because they were "suspicious." I guess I don't understand why one group wants nothing to do with AA, and another feels that it is absolutely nessisary.

I don't think it's just a particular race, more than a particular social class. That also includes certain demographics of the Asian community. Like b.c. stated, some black people see Affirmative Action as a crutch too. This is really in place for poor people who really have to struggle. Being that I'm hanging by a thread to whatever's left of the lower, middle class financial bracket, I can see how frustrating it could be for any minority to be raised in "tha hood" and somehow manage to stay focused and achieve greatness despite all of the negative surroundings. Then get rejected for any high profile job or college application because the next person, who has the same exact qualifications as they do, but was also raised in a June Cleaver or Claire Huxtable-style enviroment and have other powerful people to help them persuade employers. That's happened to me before and it really sucks to see good people turned down sorely on background & image.

(I would say AA, but then it makes Condi look like an alcoholic. LOL!!) :biggrin1:
 

HotBulge

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  • We are getting off topic with the OP and digressing on affirmative action. Also,
  • I believe that Affirmative Action today needs to be tweaked so that it places more weight on socio-economics rather than race specifically. AA, as it was practiced, was not misguided: it's simply needs to be modified for today's reality. Many people of color will still benefit because there is a strong connection between one's minority status and socio-economics.
  • I am certainly no fan of Condoleeza Rice and her role within the Bush administration, but many are also mis-representing her position on affirmative action.
  • She does support efforts for diversity and believes (with some qualification) that using race as one among several factors to achieve diversity is justified. Her opinion was shaped from her days as the Provost of Stanford University before she arrived at the White House. See this CNN article:
Rice says race can be 'one factor' in considering admissions

Adviser says Bush consulted her on court briefs

Saturday, January 18, 2003 Posted: 6:42 AM EST (1142 GMT)

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/17/rice.action/story.rice.jpg Condoleezza Rice says her experience as a professor and administrator at Stanford University shaped her view of affirmative action.


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- one of the highest-ranking members of the Bush administration -- said Friday she believes race can sometimes be considered as "one factor among others" to achieve diversity within a school or university.
The White House released a rare statement from Rice the same day that a story in "The Washington Post" credited her with taking a key role in helping to shape the Bush administration's decision to challenge the affirmative action admissions policy at the University of Michigan.
In her statement, Rice, who is African-American, stressed she agreed with Bush's call for diversity and confirmed that the president had asked her views about the matter before filing the friend-of-the-court briefs. But her statement went further than the briefs filed by the Bush administration on one key point -- whether race could ever be considered a factor in considering admissions.
"I agree with the president's position, which emphasizes the need for diversity and recognizes the continued legacy of racial prejudice, and the need to fight it," Rice said.
"I believe that while race-neutral means are preferable, it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body," Rice said.
In the two briefs filed Thursday with the Supreme Court, the administration, did not specifically address the question of whether race could ever be used as a factor in considering admissions, emphasizing "race-neutral" options.
Asked at a briefing whether Bush believed race could be "any factor," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Friday that the president decided to file briefs that were "narrowly tailored."
"The president did not want to constitutionally proscribe one way or another except for the fact that it cannot and should not, in the president's judgment, be done through the use of quotas," Fleischer said.
Interviewed Friday on CNN's "Inside Politics" program, longtime Democratic Party official and onetime Clinton White House political adviser Ann Lewis said:
"I'm glad to see Condoleezza Rice says race should be one of the factors. It should, although that is not what the administration's brief says." Lewis also noted that Secretary of State Colin Powell has in the past publicly praised the benefits of affirmative action, saying it has helped thousands of minority youngsters get an education.
"Maybe they ought to continue the debate within the administration," Lewis said.
Rice said when the administration decided to file the briefs in the University of Michigan cases, the president asked for her view on how diversity can best be achieved on university campuses.
She said the view she offered was based on her experience in academia and as provost of a major university. Rice served as provost at Stanford University from 1993 to 1999. She previously served as a professor of political science there, and she has won two of the university's highest teaching honors.
 

bosatbk

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Just so we are clear... because I am reading things about Affirmative Action that is leading me to feel that some are misguided. Affirmative Action is not jsut for blacks... Any "minority" receives it. Black, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, Women, im not sure about gays. But overall it is used to diversify the world from just being white men. and quite frankly the biggest benefactors of Affirmative Action is white women. Overall it is still needed because unfortunately race is a huge factor regardless of education or socio economic status.
 

mrpond

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in europe it's class war in america it's race war....not too hard to work out why obama is getting flak
 

D_Thoraxis_Biggulp

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in europe it's class war in america it's race war....not too hard to work out why obama is getting flak

Although the real problem here is the class war, it's just that so many people are too fucking blind to realize it. If you're poor, it doesn't matter what race or gender you are, you're getting shit on. If you can't afford health insurance, even if you're a white man with no criminal record, you'd better not have to go to the hospital. No money and no insurance, they'll put a bandage on a laceration (figuratively speaking) and send you out the door.
 

HotBulge

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Although the real problem here is the class war, it's just that so many people are too fucking blind to realize it. If you're poor, it doesn't matter what race or gender you are, you're getting shit on. If you can't afford health insurance, even if you're a white man with no criminal record, you'd better not have to go to the hospital. No money and no insurance, they'll put a bandage on a laceration (figuratively speaking) and send you out the door.

In 1968, Robert F. Kennedy (President Kennedy's brother and Atty General under JFK) ran for the Democratic nomination against other Democratic leaders such as McCarthy and VP Hubert Humphries. That nomination was highly contested as today's race among Obama and Hillary and other Dems. RFK declared his motivation for running was to advance this country along new lines of justice and social equality. He met with White, Black, and Hispanic leaders to truly hear their concerns. RFK learned that no matter race you are - whether you are poor in the inner city or poor in the country - all Americans deserve social improvement! Obama has basically been recycling RFK's vision. America has been asleep for at least 40 years now...
 

HotBulge

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Although the real problem here is the class war, it's just that so many people are too fucking blind to realize it. If you're poor, it doesn't matter what race or gender you are, you're getting shit on. If you can't afford health insurance, even if you're a white man with no criminal record, you'd better not have to go to the hospital. No money and no insurance, they'll put a bandage on a laceration (figuratively speaking) and send you out the door.

As far as no health coverage is concerned, though, Hillary Clinton's position is the most aggressive on a total reform of health care, making it a requirement for all. If Hillary can really amplify this one issue as the central issue of the Democrats, then she has a strong argument to still request the party's nomination (and assuming that the Florida and Michigan delegates can be seated at the convention)... just an aside
 

HazelGod

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If anyone could help explain this to me, I'd love to understand it more because I can't quite comprehend it.

Going way back to the OP, I read an article today that offers some explanations in the context of regional history.

You might find it interesting...at least moreso that the spurious nonsense people seem to be pulling from their rectums around here.
 

D_Chocho_Lippz

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Us? I'm sorry, I am not a gold member; but you don't look like one of "us". Therefore nobody is holding you back or down. Speaking as a black woman with a number of degrees. I have always sought to give back to the black community and in some instances be a role model for inner city youth. I must have missed the press junket and the subsequent sound bites where Ms. Rice did the same thing. :mad:
There are those that questioned my motives, as I did not grow up, in the ghetto with a single mother. I was reared in the upper-middle class, white suburbs of Monmouth County, NJ with 2 parents. But I didn't grow up ignorant to past or current struggles of my people. It has always been important in my family, not to forget from whence we came.
Where did I imply that I was one of "us." This makes no sense whatsoever in reference to what I originally said. I was saying that you were calling Condi out on her not supporting Affirmative Action, and you were essentially calling her a sellout. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. I just think it is regressive to knock someone down for not fitting into a certain pre-made mold. In this case, you seem to be saying this - "If you are black, you have to believe in Affirmative Action. If you do not, then you are a sellout or a traitor." I personally think that she is entitled to her opinion. Have you asked her or read why she doesn't believe in AA anymore?

Because the point you and many others miss is that if not for affirmative action the doors to those places would have been closed to her. It would not have mattered how intelligent she was. The doors were closed to black women for many decades until the AA came along.
So again, what is your point here? Yes, AA helped her. Yes, she does not believe in AA anymore. Does that automatically make her a sellout or a hypocrite? No, it doesn't. Maybe she has a very valid reason for no longer believing in it!

Why should all blacks look up to her? I am not looking up to that woman ever. I don't care if she is appointed vice-president. :mad:
Didn't say that. I'm saying, quit being so damn negative. Condi is proof that if you work hard, you can get to high places. Do you also feel this way about Colin Powell and such?

What if you had two canididates for a high profile job with the same skills and qualifications? One was a white male and the other was a minority or a woman? Back before Affirmative Action was in place many of these companies would stick to the white male, claiming that he would provide a better look for their image or whatever reason thet could come up with. That's one of the main reasons why it's in the laws today. And while I'm not going to debate whether or not that's right or wrong in every case, I always thought that a diverse crowd looked better than one where everyone looked and somehow acted the same way. Affirmative Action is to diversify the workplace, which directly benefits people of different races and women. It's not just for Black People, although certain media outlets are very good at protraying that.
I understand that when AA started that many people would "stick white." Therefore, as I implied in my last post, maybe it had a place back then... but not today. And AA is on the law books? I'm not sure about that - maybe you are referring to EEO?

I agree though. A diverse crowd is better. It always is better. However, is diversity only defined by skin color? IMHO, diversity is based on the individual, not the group or class they belong to.

I don't think it's just a particular race, more than a particular social class. That also includes certain demographics of the Asian community. Like b.c. stated, some black people see Affirmative Action as a crutch too. This is really in place for poor people who really have to struggle. Being that I'm hanging by a thread to whatever's left of the lower, middle class financial bracket, I can see how frustrating it could be for any minority to be raised in "tha hood" and somehow manage to stay focused and achieve greatness despite all of the negative surroundings. Then get rejected for any high profile job or college application because the next person, who has the same exact qualifications as they do, but was also raised in a June Cleaver or Claire Huxtable-style enviroment and have other powerful people to help them persuade employers. That's happened to me before and it really sucks to see good people turned down sorely on background & image.

(I would say AA, but then it makes Condi look like an alcoholic. LOL!!) :biggrin1:
I'm sorry to hear that you had issues in the past. I don't mean to try to downplay that it happened and happens... I just believe that we should judge each individual on an individual level - not raise them up or drag them down for being in some sort of group (or not being in a group).
 

vince

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If they weren't afraid of the truth media outlet headlines today would read:

Obama Polls Poorly Among Poor White Racists

Right beside the one that could read "Black racist voters in Mississippi endorse Obama by 90%- North Carolina 78%".

Racism is not exclusive to white people. If voting based on the colour of somebody's skin is racism, then is isn't only whites that are racist.