Racism or Sexual preference

Lex

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Dr. Dliznick--I think it's time for me to give up this endless race debate.
I am comfortable enough with my ownself that who someone chooses to date matters very little to me, regardless of their motives/intientions/baggage.

Research has shown that two people of different "races" can have tons more in common genetically than two African Americans or two European Americans. Saying that Sammy Sosa is of less African decent that I am because he speaks a Spanish language and I do not is a rediculous exercise. Are there things like genes and traits (recessive and dominant) and evolution that cime into play? absolutely. Thin hair and fair skin suit one well for extreme cold, while curly, wooly hair makes is easy for heat to escape the body if you live in tropical climates.

I don't intend to take much more from it that we are all human with many more similarities than differences. And that most of the most appraent differences (skin color, eye color, hair texturs) are also the most superficial. Some Black people want fair hair and blue eyes. Some White people want thick lips and tan skin. They are all equally sick in that regard and buying into other constructs which further divide us doesn't help anyone.
 

D_Humper E Bogart

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Originally posted by jonb@May 19 2005, 09:55 PM
Apparently some people didn't catch my picture of Nevada-tan. That means let the thread die.
[post=312846]Quoted post[/post]​
Great art style though. The artist is obsessed a bit with knives though (looking at his/her) other works.
 

jonb

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Actually, Nevada-tan was a real girl. She stabbed another girl in their school. As Japanese law says the authorities can't release the names of minors, the press called her "Nevada-tan" because of a University of Nevada shirt she was wearing in one photo.
 

CeeTeeCeeTee

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Originally posted by Lex@May 19 2005, 08:40 PM
Dr. Dliznick--I think it's time for me to give up this endless race debate.
I am comfortable enough with my ownself that who someone chooses to date matters very little to me, regardless of their motives/intientions/baggage.

Research has shown that two people of different "races" can have tons more in common genetically than two African Americans or two European Americans. Saying that Sammy Sosa is of less African decent that I am because he speaks a Spanish language and I do not is a rediculous exercise. Are there things like genes and traits (recessive and dominant) and evolution that cime into play? absolutely. Thin hair and fair skin suit one well for extreme cold, while curly, wooly hair makes is easy for heat to escape the body if you live in tropical climates.

I don't intend to take much more from it that we are all human with many more similarities than differences. And that most of the most appraent differences (skin color, eye color, hair texturs) are also the most superficial. Some Black people want fair hair and blue eyes. Some White people want thick lips and tan skin. They are all equally sick in that regard and buying into other constructs which further divide us doesn't help anyone.
[post=312829]Quoted post[/post]​

You make some good points. People like Dr. D have wrapped their self image around this notion of racial separateness and unfortunately no matter how many facts you lay in front of them, they will resist changing their mind.

The truth that race as we know it in America is nothing more than a social construct is a new and difficult concept for many Americans to understand or accept. We live in a society that conditions us from birth to see the two groups as separate and unrelated. Lets keep in mind that America has only recently ended its system of overt oppression of blacks in 1965.

Its gonna take time for the truth to gain momentum. In the mean time its up to people like you and me who are not afraid of the truth to begin preparing society by engaging in discussions like this one when we can and educating people.

Many people both white and black are going to reject what we have to say because we are asking folks to radically change the way they see the world. But we have one thing on our side, truth always wins out in the end!
 

Pappy

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Originally posted by jonb@May 19 2005, 04:55 PM
Apparently some people didn't catch my picture of Nevada-tan. That means let the thread die.
[post=312846]Quoted post[/post]​


JonB, I agree this thread should die, BUT there are some here that won't let that happen until everyone agrees with their point of view. We all know that's not going to happen so..........................
 

Dr. Dilznick

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Originally posted by CeeTeeCeeTee

You make some good points. People like Dr. D have wrapped their self image around this notion of racial separateness and unfortunately no matter how many facts you lay in front of them, they will resist changing their mind.

The truth that race as we know it in America is nothing more than a social construct is a new and difficult concept for many Americans to understand or accept. We live in a society that conditions us from birth to see the two groups as separate


RACIAL GROUPINGS MATCH GENETIC PROFILES, STANFORD STUDY FINDS


STANFORD - Checking a box next to a racial/ethnic category gives several pieces of information about people - the continent where their ancestors were born, the possible color of their skin and perhaps something about their risk of different diseases. But a new study by researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine finds that the checked box also says something about a person's genetic background.

This work comes on the heels of several contradictory studies about the genetic basis of race. Some found that race is a social construct with no genetic basis while others suggested that clear genetic differences exist between people of different races.

What makes the current study, published in the February issue of the American Journal of Human Genetics, more conclusive is its size. The study is by far the largest, consisting of 3,636 people who all identified themselves as either white, African-American, East Asian or Hispanic. Of these, only five individuals had DNA that matched an ethnic group different than the box they checked at the beginning of the study. That's an error rate of 0.14 percent.

According to Neil Risch, PhD, a UCSF professor who led the study while he was professor of genetics at Stanford, the findings are particularly surprising given that people in both African-American and Hispanic ethnic groups often have a mixed background. "We might expect these individuals to cross several different genetic clusters," Risch said. This is especially true for Hispanics who are often a mix of Native American, white and African-American ancestry. But that's not what the study found. Instead, each self-identified racial/ethnic group clumped into the same genetic cluster.

The people in this research were all part of a study on the genetics of hypertension, recruited at 15 locations within the United States and in Taiwan. This broad distribution is important because it means that the results are representative of racial/ethnic groups throughout the United States rather than a small region that might not reflect the population nationwide.

For each person in the study, the researchers examined 326 DNA regions that tend to vary between people. These regions are not necessarily within genes, but are simply genetic signposts on chromosomes that come in a variety of different forms at the same location.

Without knowing how the participants had identified themselves, Risch and his team ran the results through a computer program that grouped individuals according to patterns of the 326 signposts. This analysis could have resulted in any number of different clusters, but only four clear groups turned up. And in each case the individuals within those clusters all fell within the same self-identified racial group.

"This shows that people's self-identified race/ethnicity is a nearly perfect indicator of their genetic background," Risch said.


When the team further analyzed each of the four clusters, they found two distinct sub-groups within the East Asian genetic cluster. These two groups correlated with people who identified themselves as Chinese and Japanese. None of the other genetic groups could be broken down into smaller sub-sections. This suggests that there isn't enough genetic difference to distinguish between people who have ancestry from northern Europe versus southern Europe, for example. Risch admitted that few people in this study were of recent mixed ancestry, who might not fall into such neat genetic categories.

This work could influence how medical research is carried out. Often researchers ask study participants to identify their race and ethnicity at the beginning of a clinical trial. The researchers can then follow people of different racial/ethnic groups to see which group is more likely to get a particular disease or respond well to a new treatment. This information can help future doctors know which patients may need additional disease screening or should receive one treatment over another.

But recently some researchers have moved to examining genetic differences between participants rather than relying on race and ethnicity. Their reasoning is that genetic differences may be a more precise tool for tracking groups of patients. Risch points out that this genetic analysis is costly. If people fall into the same groups using self-identified race as using genetics, then that could bring down the expanding cost of medical research.

Other Stanford researchers who participated in this work include Hua Tang, a graduate student now at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, and Tom Quertermous, MD, the William G. Irwin Professor in Cardiovascular Medicine.


http://mednews.stanford.edu/releases/2005/...racial-data.htm
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/...al_grouping.php
 

Dr. Dilznick

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CeeTeeCeeTee

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None of these studies prove a thing. First of all not all hispanics are of "mixed race". That being the case how could 3000 hispanics be found to be "a separate race".

Even some who self identify would be wrong if they listed themself as "hispanic" under the system used in this test.

I have a big problem with a race test based on self identifying subjects since many blacks in particular don't have a clear understanding of who is in their racial background. how can I be considered pure african if I have several whites in my background. For social reasons I may identify myself as black but I may in fact be of mixed origins. As I have said before, African Americans are mixed in the first place.

And as I have said in many post before to you Dr D and the klansmen. This is not the first time someone has attempted to put a biological stamp on our racial system. These test are always proven wrong given enough time. ;)
 

Dr. Dilznick

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Originally posted by CeeTeeCeeTee+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CeeTeeCeeTee)</div><div class='quotemain'>I have a big problem with a race test based on self identifying subjects since many blacks in particular don&#39;t have a clear understanding of who is in their racial background. how can I be considered pure african if I have several whites in my background. For social reasons I may identify myself as black but I may in fact be of mixed origins. As I have said before, African Americans are mixed in the first place.
[/b]


"the findings are particularly surprising given that people in both African-American and Hispanic ethnic groups often have a mixed background. "We might expect these individuals to cross several different genetic clusters," Risch said. This is especially true for Hispanics who are often a mix of Native American, white and African-American ancestry. But that&#39;s not what the study found. Instead, each self-identified racial/ethnic group clumped into the same genetic cluster."



<!--QuoteBegin-CeeTeeCeeTee

None of these studies prove a thing. These test are always proven wrong given enough time. [/quote]
I guess I&#39;ll have to take your word for it, then. ;)
 
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carolinacurious: Ok,

Dr. Dilznick, you seem to ignore the " as we know it in America" part of the sentence: "The truth that race as we know it in America is nothing more than a social construct is a new and difficult concept for many Americans to understand or accept."

and CTCT, everytime I&#39;m convinced that you are taking (what I consider to be a reasonable position) that there&#39;s a lot more behind race in America than simple genetics you say something like, "None of these studies prove a thing.".

So, CTCT do you really believe that there is NOTHING biological about race at all?

and Dr. Dilznick, if I accept your viewpoint, what would you like to do with the information?
 

CeeTeeCeeTee

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@ Carloina:

The only significant biological variation between the so called races is phenotype. That is a genetic marker that makes up much less than 1% of who we are.

Not nearly enough to determine whether or not you will be a great musician or a great athlete as Dr d wants to believe.

The study that he sites is in the minority. Most test in this area have supported my view

That does not mean that every once in a while a report like this will not come to the surface, When it does another test comes along that shoots it down.

Why do people like Dr. D pray for a study that will prove that his race is Different? It’s a form of racial nationalism. I think it’s a way of dealing with anger and resentment over the history of race in this society. "You’re a bigot so I reserve the right to be a bigot too". It’s a pretty sad way to validate your existence. :(

I have never felt the need to combat the concept that I am different therefor inferior to whites with an alternate theory that says blacks are different therefor superior (the athlete, musician, penis thing) to whites and I thank god for that&#33; :)
 

D_Humper E Bogart

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Okay, genetic markers, what are they?

They&#39;re literally bits of repitive DNA that is copied and copied and copied and copied...why? Because they just do. There&#39;s not much of an evolutionary puropse and mutant rapidly within a species, but they make an interesting marker, because you can uise them to identify people. As such they&#39;re not "genes", nor do they have a function besides the one given us.

And I will concede, that yes, you can use markers to seperate people, otherwise CSI would be out of business&#33;

As for drug differences, well, I suppose "whites are inferior" I mean, they don&#39;t have anyone with the anti-AIDs or anti-maleria gene&#33;
 

jay_too

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Originally posted by ChimeraTX@May 18 2005, 02:14 AM
I am sure you don&#39;t want to get in an argument with me about European races, as that&#39;s definitely my area of specialty. ;)
[post=312249]Quoted post[/post]​
I doubt that. At the risk of being condescending, you do not have the mathematical and scientific background for a meaningful discussion. Discussion implies a level of understanding.

Once again, just go away. Why? Out of consideration to other members on this board. I find your white supremacist posts offensive. A young asshole like you should find soul mates in the KKK who would understand the goobledygook you profess.

jay
 

Dr. Dilznick

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Originally posted by carolinacurious+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(carolinacurious)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Dr. Dilznick, you seem to ignore the " as we know it in America" part of the sentence: "The truth that race as we know it in America is nothing more than a social construct is a new and difficult concept for many Americans to understand or accept."
[/b]

Not at all. But I didn&#39;t ignore the "nothing more than" part either. ;)




<!--QuoteBegin-ORCABOMBER

Okay, genetic markers, what are they?

They&#39;re literally bits of repitive DNA that is copied and copied and copied and copied...why? Because they just do. There&#39;s not much of an evolutionary puropse and mutant rapidly within a species, but they make an interesting marker, because you can uise them to identify people. As such they&#39;re not "genes", nor do they have a function besides the one given us.
[/quote]
Only if you&#39;re talking about anonymous genetic markers. Not that it matters for this discussion, but genetic markers can be functional genes. ;)

And gene families can be identified from specific genetic markers.
 

Freddie53

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Originally posted by jay_too+May 20 2005, 12:38 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jay_too &#064; May 20 2005, 12:38 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ChimeraTX@May 18 2005, 02:14 AM
I am sure you don&#39;t want to get in an argument with me about European races, as that&#39;s definitely my area of specialty.  ;)
[post=312249]Quoted post[/post]​
I doubt that. At the risk of being condescending, you do not have the mathematical and scientific background for a meaningful discussion. Discussion implies a level of understanding.

Once again, just go away. Why? Out of consideration to other members on this board. I find your white supremacist posts offensive. A young asshole like you should find soul mates in the KKK who would understand the goobledygook you profess.

jay
[post=313137]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]
Jay, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If we wish Jon TX to go away then we must bid farewell to the Dr. D. He certainly expresses the same black supremacist and racist attitude and Chimera TX.

Jay, why don&#39;t you try to prove Chimra wrong instead. You might find that the inclination toward white supracist dogma might change. Chimera is only 15. Instead of chasing him away, try to help him understand all of this. That is a much better solution. I think that Jon TX has shown that he is capable of admitting he is wrong when he sees that he is. Let&#39;s work on coming to solutions that get rid of everyone&#39;s supremacist attitudes and instead find solutions where we as humans come to love and respect each other.

I know that you may think that is a dream world. I will go to my grave fighting for freedom, respect and justice and maybe even love for everyone and I mean everyone.
 

Dr. Dilznick

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Originally posted by Freddie53
Jay, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If we wish Jon TX to go away then we must bid farewell to the Dr. D. He certainly expresses the same black supremacist and racist attitude and Chimera TX.
[post=313166]Quoted post[/post]​
I&#39;m not a supremacist.
 

Lex

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A study of 3000 in a world of billions tells us WHAT exactly?
Some drugs work for some people, some don&#39;t.
All that says is that eveyrone of us is different.

I can, right now, google and find 10 studies that say X causes Y and 10 more that say X does NOT cause Y.

Why bother?

I need to be clearer:

Regardless of whether race exists or not, I could give two shits about interracial relationships. People are people. People with racial hang-ups are insecure and sick.
I have Afircan American, European and Native American in my ancestry. African American is a more global term that decribes how I LOOK more than what I am made of.

I will NOT be confined by the narrowmindedness of others, regardless of what "facts" they use to back up their reasoning (and I use the word lightly).

 

CeeTeeCeeTee

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Originally posted by Dr. Dilznick+May 20 2005, 07:36 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr. Dilznick &#064; May 20 2005, 07:36 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Freddie53
Jay, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If we wish Jon TX to go away then we must bid farewell to the Dr. D. He certainly expresses the same black supremacist and racist attitude and Chimera TX.
[post=313166]Quoted post[/post]​
I&#39;m not a supremacist.
[post=313170]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]

Frankly, I could care less what you call yourself. You bring a toxic atmosphere to this thread because your ideas are so dominated by resentment, anger and bigotry.