Racism or Sexual preference

[tightfit]

I think it's sad.

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Ok I really didn't want to get into this thread but being a person of color - I felt the need to...But I have had a discussion w/Naughty and decided to post...Personally - I really don't see color - I have been burnt by just by whites and others of color equally - people are people...But I would really want to know what non-minority's parents had to teach them about racism as a child...Minority parents usually have that talk w/their children at a young age from what I have known...It is sad because I think children are not racist - it is learned from what they are taught by there parents or observed...

I once briefly dated this young lady who happened to be white and she was quite honest w/me that her father was really racist and quite regularly used the N word on a normal basis...I mean we had to sneak around because she made it clear that she would never openly date a black man until her father died - which was sad and why I quickly ended that...But personally I have dated almost every nationality and mixture but when it comes to preference - a minority is something that catches my eye first - but I don't discriminate...And when I think about it - the reason is probably because I think they probably can identify w/me...

And personally I have and I am sure probably all the minorities on here have experienced some form of racism...But I don't dislike the race - just the particular person...And my group of friends which I hang out w/alot are so multicultural - on any given night we are black, white, asian, latino (american and european) - they always call us a benetton ad...But like I said before - I like everyone...Personally I don't get how a person can dislike someone because of there color...But now to get off the serious subject - I like all you folks...

 

[alpinepaul]

http://www.sexualracismsux.com/

as far as my english is good enough to understand all the stuff (i would be much better in that debate in my mother tongue), i am with the guys from the site mentioned.

 

[Britannic]

Not sure how to appropriately respond to this thread. Some of the posts angered me, some enlightened me and some disgusted me.

If one singlehandly dismisses an entire group of people soley based on their color or ethnicity without never having dated, or at least tried to date anyone from said group, then I think that is racism. If, however, you've dated some people from of a particular ethicity and found that they weren't for you, then I'd have to say that's a preference. You can't sit there and tell me you don't like someone or something if you've never experienced it first hand.

Someone made a comment in this thread that all the minority members can identify with being the recipient of racist behavor or commentary. Well, I can tell you that a white male, I too have experienced racism. It's not a minority-only experience and anyone who thinks so is sadly mistaken.

One thing that upsets me more than anything when the issue of racism is introduced into any topic of conversation is how it's generally always how "whites" are racists. I'm not a racist person. I have friends of every race and color. I choose my friends on the quality of their character and nothing else. And that is also how I choose whom I date and love. I just find it personally upsetting and hurtful that when the black guy sees an ad for a white guy that excludes him that his first though is, "How racist of that white guy." but he'll casually ignore the ad by another black man that says "Brothers only."

If you want to stop racism, stop it on all sides of the "race" issue. Because, truly, we're all ONE race. The human race.

 

[jay_too]

Originally posted by Britannic@Feb 21 2005, 09:48 PM
If you want to stop racism, stop it on all sides of the "race" issue. Because, truly, we're all ONE race. The human race.

[post=285063]Quoted post[/post]​

Well said.

jay

 

[SomeGuyOverThere]

I totally dissagree with people saying it is racist.

Racism implies predjudice, and I think that as long as you are not predjudiced towards another race, i.e. think of them as inferior, then it is just preference.

I mean, what you are saying is like saying "well, to make sure you arent a racist nazi scum, you have to sleep with a man and woman of every race, size and lifestyle".

I mean, for god's sake, people would be going crazy if I said it was sexist not to want homosexual sex! Oh, but we are all human beings, so we should want sex with everyone!

That is just silly!

I am uterly convinced on this, it is preference that determines your sexuality, and preference that determines who you sleep with, if you prefer to sleep with people of your race, then that is your preference it is not racism.

It only becomes racism when you refuse to sleep with somebody of another race because you view them as inferior.


Sorry for the rant. But it's silly to call this racism.

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Brittanic - well said and you brought up some good points...And I tend to agree - I have met some blacks who I may say are prejudice when it comes to other races but maybe one who might be racist...And I did mention something about most minorities experiencing racism in some form (But I also said in words from my experience)...I didn't mean to offend you at all...

Prejudice and racism are two different things...Like I do have a black male friend of mine who I am pretty close with - does not like to hang around white people...I think he had a few racial things happen to him in his past...It really upsets me because we really don't hang out as much because like I said I hang out w/a very diverse group and a lot of them are white...And it is sad because my black friend is probably one the most sensitive and loving person...And he is very honest and will tell me - I don't feel comfortable hanging out w/your friends even though they seem very cool...He even missed my birthday party because of that...

Brittanic - curious though - what type of racism did you experience as a white man...Hell blacks are prejudice towards blacks...I attended an majority black university and that took on another counter culture in it self...I mean we separated ourselves (ex. ghetto blacks, wealthy blacks, foriegn blacks, blacks who were perceived as not acting cultural black)...I knew this one black guy from New Hampshire who only had known one other black in his home town and did not identify very well w/blacks and that is why he choose to attend a black university...

But people who know me - know I am definitely not racist or prejudice and I welcome any constructive or curious question about minorities...I mean I have had non blacks want to touch my hair or face...And I have had blacks tell me that I don't act black enough...

But let me tell you the most recently thing that happened to me racially...I happened to go out of town a couple of months ago to LA w/some friends and of my friends who is middle eastern had his roommate who most of had never met...He was a white guy and the guy would make little racial comments about my friend (black jokes) and then he would look at me and say - I don't mean to offend you but we joke like this...After about of hour of this - I asked my middle eastern friend - are you fucking kidding me - you let him talk to you like that...I mean I can take a black joke and think it is funny but when do for hours and start throwing a couple of the N words in there - I will lose my cool...I actually said something to the kid and made some comment like he calls his roommate a little monkey - jokingly because there use to be a sterotype about black having tails...Come on - I was pissed and I yelled at him - do you want to pull my pants down and see what kind of tail I am sporting...

Needless to say - I gave this guy a lot of shit and we all had to stay in the hotel together for 3 days and this was the first hour of me meeting...He did apologize the whole weekend and kept asking me why I didn't like him - I was did you not hear what you were saying...His female friend that was with did come to me and tell me that - he is a jerk she was personally offend but he is really a good guy once you get to know him - I was interested...The other 4 guys w/us were white and they were shocked but didn't know him and individually talked to me about it and said they have never been around a guy like that and didn't know how to react...Plus - like I said I am a very nice and friendly person and this is the first time my friends have seen me upset...Racist people suck...

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Ok I got to chime in on this again...I think it is somewhat prejudice to say I want date someone because of there race but I don't think it is racist at all...Racism is more meant to intentially hurt someone of a different race...Racial Hate Crimes are racist and not saying I only have preference to date someone of my own race...Interesting discussion though...And I hope I am not coming off as some pro-black arse either - not my intention but speaking from life experiences...

 

[naughty]

Pene,

I think it is safe to say that you are an equal opportunity lover from your comments. It is ultimately each person's choice to decide who fits them best and who they will spend time with.

Pappy,

I assume you are talking about gay black males? I could see you saying that to some extent, however I think it is more about the personality than the race.Being in a field that has a high number of gay and lesbian individuals, I think it really is a case by case basis. I have gay men black and white that I work with that you would never suspect and others who have no problem expressing themselves quite flamboyantly. I can not speak for gay males, but I know that in the black community gay males have a hard way to go. So I suspect there may be some degree of defiant over compensation at work there.Also there are many different ways in which people express their sexuality. You may have come upon a great number of more flamboyant gay black males. Whatever the case, your choice is your own.

Dee,

I take my hat off to you. You are one fine example of manhood! Oooh la la! I can not say anything you have said better than you have said it.

I myself basically talk with and date those who I can relate to on a number of levels. Though as I get older I have become a bit more outgoing in my talking to men, those with whom I have had lasting conversation or friendship have usually had a similar mindset and interests. I have, however. had some major surprises along the way. Beauty, integrity, intelligence, and that certain je ne sais quoi have no color.


Naughty

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Naughty - excellent points as usual...

 

[Pappy]

Originally posted by naughty@Feb 21 2005, 09:48 PM
Pene,

I think it is safe to say  that you are an equal opportunity lover from your comments. It is ultimately each person's choice to decide who fits them best and who they will spend time with.

Pappy,

I assume you are talking about gay black males? I could see you saying that to some extent, however I think it is more about the personality than the race.Being in a field that has a high number of gay and lesbian individuals, I think it really is a case by case basis. I have gay men black and white that I work with that you would never suspect and others who have no problem expressing themselves quite flamboyantly. I can not speak for gay males, but I know that in the black community gay males have a hard way to go. So I suspect there may be some degree of defiant over compensation at work there.Also there are many different ways in which people express their sexuality. You may have come upon a great number of more flamboyant gay black males. Whatever the case, your choice is your own.

Dee,

I take my hat off to you. You are one fine example of manhood! Oooh la la! I can not say anything you have said better than you have said it.

I myself basically talk with and date those who I can relate to on a number of levels. Though as I get older I have become a bit more outgoing in my talking to men, those with whom I have had lasting conversation or friendship have usually had a similar mindset and interests. I have, however. had some major surprises along the way. Beauty, integrity, intelligence, and that certain je ne sais quoi have no color.


Naughty

[post=285157]Quoted post[/post]​

Your right naughty it is my choice which is my preference, not racist. Things like Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, Miss Black America and The United Negro College Fund, now those are racist!! I'll probably catch hell over that statement but it is the truth.

 

[naughty]

Pappy,

Do I detect a wee bit of anger here? The magazines, organizations ,and events you sited came into being as a result of the people which they represent not being traditionally represented in other more mainstream activities.They have been in existence even back into the time of segregation and continue to serve portions of the population. They are just examples of publications,activities and organizations that serves special interest groups . How are they really different from those that support the opinions of say conservtives, liberals, latinos, gun enthusiasts, etc ? they merely cater to the opinions and concerns of their constituents. As for you choices for a sexual partner. I am sure that most black men would not have any problem with you not desiring them as a partner. The feeling might actually be mutual.

Naughty

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Originally posted by Pappy@Feb 22 2005, 12:27 AM
Your right naughty it is my choice which is my preference, not racist. Things like Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, Miss Black America and The United Negro College Fund, now those are racist!! I'll probably catch hell over that statement but it is the truth.

[post=285195]Quoted post[/post]​

Okay - comments like this make me not like to respond to posts when comes to race or politics - everyone has an opinion and I am not going say who I think is right or wrong...But from perspective - Pappy you are a little older than myself so help me out here...When publications that have been around for a while like Vogue, the New Yorker and I am sure you can name others - they didn't have any brothers and sisters in them...That's prejudice - I think racist is a little strong...And on the subject of the United Negro College fund - it helps a lot of minorities who might be overlooked that are just as smart but some issue (financial) prevents them from attending a university of their choice...And there are 100's of special interest scholarship and programs that minorities might not qualify for...And Black Entertainment Television - mirror image w/a little color thrown in of MTV (and when they started in the early 80's - I did not see the images of black artist as today)...And I hope you know both BET and MTV are owned by Viacom (so who is hosting the racism if you feel like they are racist)...And Miss Black America - come on Pappy - I am sure you can recall when there were only white woman in the paegent...I do want you to think that I am anger or anything - this is very educational to see what people of different races think...I hope we all learn something though...Sorry I get passionate about certain subjects...

 

[Pappy]

Originally posted by naughty@Feb 21 2005, 11:47 PM
Pappy,

Do I detect a wee bit of anger here? The magazines, organizations ,and events you sited came into being as a result of the people which they represent not being traditionally represented in other more mainstream activities.They have been in existence even back into the time of segregation and continue to serve portions of the population. They are just examples of publications,activities and organizations that serves special interest groups . How are they really different from those that support the opinions of say conservtives, liberals, latinos, gun enthusiasts, etc ? they merely cater to the opinions and concerns of their constituents. As for you choices for a sexual partner. I am sure that most black men would not have any problem with you not desiring them as a partner. The feeling might actually be mutual.

Naughty

[post=285205]Quoted post[/post]​

Not a bit naughty just stating facts. I do believe that some one needs to look up the definition of racist. These magazines, organizations and events , as you call them, completely exclude people that are not of African-American descent. That is not only racist it's also discriminatory. And unless you were around during the times of segregation you have no idea of what things were like then. How do they differ you ask?? Well the others don't exclude on the basis of race.

As for your statement "I am sure that most black men would not have any problem with you not desiring them as a partner. The feeling might actually be mutual." How would you know what a gay black man would want sexually??

 

[naughty]

Pappy,
I have always enjoyed your comments. Segregation and discrimination did not end in 1954. It is alive and well in America today.I guess I can understand your feeling about them being totally about Blacks but did you look at my other examples which pretty much do similar things. You are very right I can not speak for Black men but I can speak as someone who probably wiould not go for someone who had an obvious disdain for me.

naughty

Originally posted by Pappy+Feb 22 2005, 05:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pappy &#064; Feb 22 2005, 05:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-naughty@Feb 21 2005, 11:47 PM
Pappy,

Do I detect a wee bit of anger here? The magazines, organizations ,and events you sited came into being as a result of the people which they represent not being traditionally represented in other more mainstream  activities.They have been in existence even back into the time of segregation and continue to serve portions of the population. They are just examples of publications,activities and organizations that serves special interest groups . How are they really different from  those  that support the opinions of  say conservtives, liberals, latinos, gun enthusiasts, etc ? they merely  cater to the opinions and concerns of their constituents. As for you choices for a sexual partner. I am sure that most black men would not have any problem with you not desiring them as a partner. The feeling might actually be mutual.

Naughty

[post=285205]Quoted post[/post]​

Not a bit naughty just stating facts. I do believe that some one needs to look up the definition of racist. These magazines, organizations and events , as you call them, completely exclude people that are not of African-American descent. That is not only racist it&#39;s also discriminatory. And unless you were around during the times of segregation you have no idea of what things were like then. How do they differ you ask?? Well the others don&#39;t exclude on the basis of race.

As for your statement "I am sure that most black men would not have any problem with you not desiring them as a partner. The feeling might actually be mutual." How would you know what a gay black man would want sexually??

[post=285214]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

 

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Pene_Negro_Grande+Feb 22 2005, 12:05 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pene_Negro_Grande &#064; Feb 22 2005, 12:05 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Pappy@Feb 22 2005, 12:27 AM
Your right naughty it is my choice which is my preference, not racist.  Things like Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, Miss Black America and The United Negro College Fund, now those are racist&#33;&#33;  I&#39;ll probably catch hell over that statement but it is the truth.

[post=285195]Quoted post[/post]​

When publications that have been around for a while like Vogue, the New Yorker and I am sure you can name others - they didn&#39;t have any brothers and sisters in them...That&#39;s prejudice - I think racist is a little strong... They have had people of color in them but does Jet have any white people in them??And on the subject of the United Negro College fund - it helps a lot of minorities who might be overlooked that are just as smart but some issue (financial) prevents them from attending a university of their choice...And there are an equal number of white students that have the same difficulties(financial) that never get the chance to prove their intelligence on a collegate level And there are 100&#39;s of special interest scholarship and programs that minorities might not qualify for... As well as a lot that white students don&#39;t qualify for And Black Entertainment Television - mirror image w/a little color thrown in of MTV (and when they started in the early 80&#39;s - I did not see the images of black artist as today)...And I hope you know both BET and MTV are owned by Viacom (so who is hosting the racism if you feel like they are racist)...And Miss Black America - come on Pappy - I am sure you can recall when there were only white woman in the paegent...But it&#39;s not off limits anymore is it??I do want you to think that I am anger or anything - this is very educational to see what people of different races think...I hope we all learn something though...Sorry I get passionate about certain subjects...

[post=285213]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

And no Pene_Negro_Grande I don&#39;t feel that you are anrgy. I&#39;m just stating things the way I see them. I don&#39;t think anyone should get extra points on a college entrance just because of the color of their skin. All students have that same educational opportunities, they go to the same schools, with the same teachers. It wasn&#39;t always this way but it changed many, many years ago. Now whether or not they take advantage of those opportunities or not is their choice.

I know that I have come off sounding like I am racist but really I&#39;m not nor am I prejudiced. I just don&#39;t feel it&#39;s right for anyone to be excluded based on the color of their skin. I have been on an intimate level with a few men of color and the experiences were not pleasant to say the least, so if I choose not to consider a man of color for my sex partner it is based on my experiences and it is my preference to not consider them when looking for a partner.

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Originally posted by Pappy@Feb 22 2005, 01:09 AM
Not a bit naughty just stating facts. I do believe that some one needs to look up the definition of racist. These magazines, organizations and events , as you call them, completely exclude people that are not of African-American descent. That is not only racist it&#39;s also discriminatory. And unless you were around during the times of segregation you have no idea of what things were like then. How do they differ you ask?? Well the others don&#39;t exclude on the basis of race.

As for your statement "I am sure that most black men would not have any problem with you not desiring them as a partner. The feeling might actually be mutual." How would you know what a gay black man would want sexually??

[post=285214]Quoted post[/post]​

I think that comment was somewhat thrown at me - but when was the last time you picked up a Jet Magazine or tuned into BET...Jet magazine does have white advertisement in them and many articles about Politics (white politicians) and last time I checked Eminem, Jon B, Kenny G are white and I have seen there videos and interviews on BET...And there are a whole host of other non-black artist (Latinos - JLO, Fat Joe, Christina video which I have seen on BET) and that asian kid rapper...Turn it on and watch - you will be surprised...And I aint going to lie - that is not a lot and the magazines are geared towards African Americans but when MTV came out in the early 80&#39;s - I saw just as little black artist as you are saying are white artist on BET...See like I said I like to look at the bigger picture - Viacom owns BET and MTV and they are out to make money so they try to appeal to everyone...I have worked in an industry that known for that...And who knows - maybe a white girl enter the Miss Black America Paegent (and did you know a black person does not own the Miss Black America Paegent - guess who does - someone smart who wants to make money)...I guarantee there is nothing in the contract that say a non-minority can enter...No one probably have not had the courage to apply like the first minority woman who applied for the Miss America Paegent and was finally accepted...

And on a Personal Note - my friends dad is the president of the United Negro College Fund (what up Mr. Gray)...I didn&#39;t even qualify for that when I went to college...But check out their trustees and most of the members of NAACP - they actually have more non-minorities high level executives running things...I personally was a little shocked when I went a couple of galas sponsered by these organizations...And I know a couple of non-minority models that have been shown in Vibe Magazine - another publication geared towards minorities...

And a lot of the stuff I read in this thread I may think is racist...But I hate to even use that word because like I said I am in a place right now in my life that my race does seem to be an issue and it has in the past...So a lot of the time I use the word prejudice and not discriminatory or racist...I don&#39;t want to come off like I am mad at non-minorities...And my family was around during segregation and educated me on the conditions from a black perspective and I got it from a white perspective (I have a white grandmother)...So I feel well rounded...I hope I didn&#39;t come off sounding angry...

 

[Pappy]

Pappy,
I have always enjoyed your comments. Segregation and discrimination did not end in 1954. It is alive and well in America today.I guess I can understand your feeling about them being totally about Blacks but did you look at my other examples which pretty much do similar things. You are very right I can not speak for Black men but I can speak as someone who probably wiould not go for someone who had an obvious disdain for me.

naughty

Naughty,
It&#39;s not disdain, it&#39;s a preference based on passed experiences. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Pappy,
I have always enjoyed your comments. Segregation and discrimination did not end in 1954. It is alive and well in America today.I guess I can understand your feeling about them being totally about Blacks but did you look at my other examples which pretty much do similar things. You are very right I can not speak for Black men but I can speak as someone who probably wiould not go for someone who had an obvious disdain for me.

naughty

Naughty,
It&#39;s not disdain, it&#39;s a preference based on passed experiences. Nothing more, nothing less.

[post=285235]Quoted post[/post]​

And that is that is what I thought this was coming from and I mentioned that to Naughty from your first comments...And Pappy I went to a "Historically Black University" and I had a lot of white and non-blacks friends who went there on minority scholarships because they were the minority on campus but were getting a free ride because they were smart and wanted to be educated and didn&#39;t care what color the professor was or that the majority of their peers when of a different color...We also had whites who pledged (traditional black fraternities and sororities)...And all students of all colors were under the same student union...And the other university about a mile away (a majority white university) had a black student union and I going to call it a white student union in this day and age which was 2 or 3 yrs ago...Like I said I try to look at the bigger picture...

And Pappy - question - have you had any situation w/non-blacks that were not the best situation...Like I said before I have got burnt by just as many minorities as non-minorities and I still folks an equal chance...But like I said before I don&#39;t have a problem w/folks preferences - we all have them...This thread is really starting to get a little serious - huh...

 

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Pene_Negro_Grande@Feb 22 2005, 01:09 AM
And Pappy - question - have you had any situation w/non-blacks that were not the best situation...Like I said before I have got burnt by just as many minorities as non-minorities and I still folks an equal chance...But like I said before I don&#39;t have a problem w/folks preferences - we all have them...This thread is really starting to get a little serious - huh...

[post=285238]Quoted post[/post]​

Pene_Negro_Grande, It&#39;s like I told Naughty in a PM. I posted what I felt and by doing so I had no intention of stepping on anyones toes. If I did I do apologize because that was not my intent. Yes I have been in situations with non-whites that were uncomfortable. It&#39;s like I told Naughty, I didn&#39;t say that I would not date a man of color, or Asian for that matter, I said it&#39;s a preference based on prior experiences. I look for honesty and fidelity in a relationship and so far I haven&#39;t been able to find that with men of color.