Racism? Or Simply Preference? Who Is Right Here?

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deleted464787

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Hi all, been a LOOOOONG time since Ive posted here.... mostly just spent the years lurking and looking at pictures and videos. But tonight, something happened, and I just had to post about it. So please read this whole thing before drawing any conclusions (warning, this post may be quite long), and then give me your honest feedback. I promise I won't be offended either way.

So, as a quick background--a bit about me. Im mostly straight (mostly into women, but down to fool around with dudes if the mood is right), and I can only ever see myself getting into an actual relationship with women (with men, it would never go beyond physical pleasure). Label me whatever category that puts me into... straight, bi, whatever... thats not the point. The 2nd fact about me, Im white. Im not hung up about it, and I don't have a feeling of superiority about it... it just is what it is--thats how the universe made me... a white guy.

Why is all this important you ask? Well, it just so happens that sometimes Im in.. "the mood" and having a guy around to help me out sounds kinda fun... so naturally I turned to Grindr (LOL, dont judge me, we all have needs). On there, my profile simply says, and I quote:

"Bi white guy here, looking for fun. Mostly attracted to other white guys."

So tonight, I just happened to get on, and I was greeted with this lovely message from a Latino individual (see picture attached). For those that cant see the picture, this is how he greeted me, verbatim:

"You understand that racial preferences are racist? Making preemptive decisions about a person based on the color of their skin is racism. Check your white privilege dude."

I was shocked. I've never really been a fan of people who play into identity politics, but Ill be damned if people on the far left now think they are so "woke" enough to start dictating who I can, or have to be attracted to. I wanted to just cuss the guy out, or block him, but I thought "you know, lets see if I can talk to this guy rationally and see if I can construct an argument that would make him change his point of view and agree with me."

I won't post pictures of the entire conversation--its a long one--but Ill try to give you guys the gyst of how it went down, along with my thoughts, and then Id like to hear what you all have to say about it.

First, I tried explaining to him that although I'd consider myself unlikely to have sex with a black, or latino dude, Id happily still be friends with them. Does that still qualify as racist? He seemed very hung up on the fact that I was a white dude who only liked other white dudes. I then explained to him that as a bi guy, Im actually mostly attracted to Asian women over any other race, to which he responded thats racist because Im sexualizing Asian women (huh?).

He then made a statement that there must be a REASON why Im attracted to white dudes. To which I responded with this analogy: "I love steak. And I think onions are gross. (really, I cant stand them, lol). Whos to say whats right or whats wrong about that? Why am I not entitled to have my own preferences? Once again, this is simply how the universe made me, and I cant CHANGE it just because that offends you." He responded saying that my food analogy is stupid because "onions arent an ethnic identity that im excluding because its different from what Ive been told is beautiful."

Again.... huh? I don't remember being told that only white people are beautiful. And if I was told (and convinced!) that only white people are beautiful, then why the hell am I attracted to Asian women?

In the end, I explained to him that I dare say that if I was a white guy, who only happened to be attracted to say... black guys, he wouldnt be so offended by this. And do you know how he responded? Youre not going to believe this.... HE AGREED! He couldnt have proven my point any easier. How does a person not see the hypocrisy in all of this?

Afterwards, I told him I was going to be posting a rundown of our conversation on here, and getting feedback, and sharing it with him. I also intend to share the link to this thread with him so he can share his side of the story, and hopefully not be biased (lets see if he actually responds). If not, Im prepared to post screenshots of the entire conversation just to prove Im being genuine here, and not only telling one side.

So now, I ask you all the readers, to please share your feedback here.

I would argue that he was WAY out of line to begin by making such assumptions and coming at me that way. And I might even argue that him coming at me that way could even be proof that he harbors some "white hate" if there is such a thing--but maybe thats a stretch.

I would also argue that having a sexual attraction is not racist, just as having a sexual preference is not sexist, and just having a preference for ANY characteristic is not "x-ist". Not only that, but I for SURE am not obligated to justify why I find certain things attractive, and certain other things unattractive, nor is anyone obligated to explain to me why they might not be attracted to me--that is entirely their subjective opinion, and theyre entitled to it. And if the social justice-identity politics-toting left is starting to push to mandate how we think like that...then Ill just start jacking off on my own rather than being forced to have sex with someone I happen to not be attracted to just because it offends them.

Thoughts? Opinions? I'll be checking back periodically to see what you all have to say.

Thanks for reading.
 

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deleted464787

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*waits for the fire to start*

Lol, grab your popcorn.

No, but seriously, the purpose isnt to start a flame war. If me and the guy who started this could at least have a civil discussion (albeit one where we still dont agree) surely we can have one here too--oh wait... youre right. This is the internet. Good god, what fresh hell have I unleashed :(
 

rtg

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Lol, grab your popcorn.

No, but seriously, the purpose isnt to start a flame war. If me and the guy who started this could at least have a civil discussion (albeit one where we still dont agree) surely we can have one here too--oh wait... youre right. This is the internet. Good god, what fresh hell have I unleashed :(
I know.

There have been recent discussions about the same topic in other threads. There are varying opinions, but many think it is racism.
 
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deleted464787

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I know.

There have been recent discussions about the same topic in other threads. There are varying opinions, but many think it is racism.
Its a little disheartening to hear that many people would label you a racist because you find one thing attractive and another thing not. I know its kind of a touchy subject, and maybe even taboo to talk about. But it shouldn't be a big deal. To me, its virtually no different than when women say "I only date tall guys." And I know some men give women a lot of flack for saying that, but its also no different when a man says "I don't date fat women."

Cant everyone just have their own preferences without being judged for them? Life is too short to get hung up on people who don't want you... move on and enjoy yourself, ya know?

I'd also like to add that while I might not have sex with you, Id still happily be anyone's friend, regardless of race/color/whatever. You just cant have my penis :p
 

Sagittarius84

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Ill make it simple: ones supposed preference in race almost always has more to do with whatever stereotype or trope about said race, then attraction to said individuals. What would really be helpful and honest is specifics as to why you don't find said races attractive, but said honesty is almost always problematic enough for the speaker to mitigate themselves before they freely divulge.
So historically for example, a popular battle cry for many hetero white men was a non attraction to Black women...until you start mentioning names like Vanessa Wiliams, or Halle Berry...lots of gay white men will say no black men but would drink Wentworth Miller's(Prison Break, The Flash[Captain Cold]) bathwater if given the chance. Race is categorical but isnt always immediately evident so when you start pursing through the exceptions you start to get a picture of what is really being said, not liking certain hair textures, non Caucasian noses and lips, dark skin, (blank) popular culture, and the like is what is really being said, and I think in the interest of self policing people instead opt to just generalize it with race as the supposedly less shitty attitude.
And the whole appeal of Asian women to white men is a well storied phenomenon with lots of cultural implications...so much so Im confident this affinity for "Asian" women can be easily narrowed down to the cultural and regional favorites
 

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Hi all, been a LOOOOONG time since Ive posted here.... mostly just spent the years lurking and looking at pictures and videos. But tonight, something happened, and I just had to post about it. So please read this whole thing before drawing any conclusions (warning, this post may be quite long), and then give me your honest feedback. I promise I won't be offended either way.

So, as a quick background--a bit about me. Im mostly straight (mostly into women, but down to fool around with dudes if the mood is right), and I can only ever see myself getting into an actual relationship with women (with men, it would never go beyond physical pleasure). Label me whatever category that puts me into... straight, bi, whatever... thats not the point. The 2nd fact about me, Im white. Im not hung up about it, and I don't have a feeling of superiority about it... it just is what it is--thats how the universe made me... a white guy.

Why is all this important you ask? Well, it just so happens that sometimes Im in.. "the mood" and having a guy around to help me out sounds kinda fun... so naturally I turned to Grindr (LOL, dont judge me, we all have needs). On there, my profile simply says, and I quote:

"Bi white guy here, looking for fun. Mostly attracted to other white guys."

So tonight, I just happened to get on, and I was greeted with this lovely message from a Latino individual (see picture attached). For those that cant see the picture, this is how he greeted me, verbatim:

"You understand that racial preferences are racist? Making preemptive decisions about a person based on the color of their skin is racism. Check your white privilege dude."

I was shocked. I've never really been a fan of people who play into identity politics, but Ill be damned if people on the far left now think they are so "woke" enough to start dictating who I can, or have to be attracted to. I wanted to just cuss the guy out, or block him, but I thought "you know, lets see if I can talk to this guy rationally and see if I can construct an argument that would make him change his point of view and agree with me."

I won't post pictures of the entire conversation--its a long one--but Ill try to give you guys the gyst of how it went down, along with my thoughts, and then Id like to hear what you all have to say about it.

First, I tried explaining to him that although I'd consider myself unlikely to have sex with a black, or latino dude, Id happily still be friends with them. Does that still qualify as racist? He seemed very hung up on the fact that I was a white dude who only liked other white dudes. I then explained to him that as a bi guy, Im actually mostly attracted to Asian women over any other race, to which he responded thats racist because Im sexualizing Asian women (huh?).

He then made a statement that there must be a REASON why Im attracted to white dudes. To which I responded with this analogy: "I love steak. And I think onions are gross. (really, I cant stand them, lol). Whos to say whats right or whats wrong about that? Why am I not entitled to have my own preferences? Once again, this is simply how the universe made me, and I cant CHANGE it just because that offends you." He responded saying that my food analogy is stupid because "onions arent an ethnic identity that im excluding because its different from what Ive been told is beautiful."

Again.... huh? I don't remember being told that only white people are beautiful. And if I was told (and convinced!) that only white people are beautiful, then why the hell am I attracted to Asian women?

In the end, I explained to him that I dare say that if I was a white guy, who only happened to be attracted to say... black guys, he wouldnt be so offended by this. And do you know how he responded? Youre not going to believe this.... HE AGREED! He couldnt have proven my point any easier. How does a person not see the hypocrisy in all of this?

Afterwards, I told him I was going to be posting a rundown of our conversation on here, and getting feedback, and sharing it with him. I also intend to share the link to this thread with him so he can share his side of the story, and hopefully not be biased (lets see if he actually responds). If not, Im prepared to post screenshots of the entire conversation just to prove Im being genuine here, and not only telling one side.

So now, I ask you all the readers, to please share your feedback here.

I would argue that he was WAY out of line to begin by making such assumptions and coming at me that way. And I might even argue that him coming at me that way could even be proof that he harbors some "white hate" if there is such a thing--but maybe thats a stretch.

I would also argue that having a sexual attraction is not racist, just as having a sexual preference is not sexist, and just having a preference for ANY characteristic is not "x-ist". Not only that, but I for SURE am not obligated to justify why I find certain things attractive, and certain other things unattractive, nor is anyone obligated to explain to me why they might not be attracted to me--that is entirely their subjective opinion, and theyre entitled to it. And if the social justice-identity politics-toting left is starting to push to mandate how we think like that...then Ill just start jacking off on my own rather than being forced to have sex with someone I happen to not be attracted to just because it offends them.

Thoughts? Opinions? I'll be checking back periodically to see what you all have to say.

Thanks for reading.
I love onions and mushrooms! I liked your food analogy. It's Grindr. I see nothing wrong with stating your likes and dislikes, your preferences period. These days you have to be careful how you word thing because you are going to butthurt someone. Write or wrong the other guy is entitled to his opinion. I have read some of your posts and have followed you for quite sometime and found you are a quite a reasonable guy and you like what you like.
I coild go on but I'd like to see other opinions. Like @rtg said.
 
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deleted464787

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Ill make it simple: ones supposed preference in race almost always has more to do with whatever stereotype or trope about said race, then attraction to said individuals. What would really be helpful and honest is specifics as to why you don't find said races attractive, but said honesty is almost always problematic enough for the speaker to mitigate themselves before they freely divulge.

Im happy to answer that, without beating around the bush. I happen to find white dudes/asian women more attractive for the exact same reason I find steak tasty, and onions unappealing: the sense my body has (sight, in the applicable sense with people, and taste, in the applicable sense with food) sends electrical signals to my brain, which releases dopamine and tells my brain "I like this" or "I don't like this. Its science, and it doesnt get any simpler than that.

I know its not the answer you want, and certainly not the answer he wanted, as he wanted there to be some sort of hidden agenda to my preference. But thats really all there is to it. Thats simply the way my senses are wired to my brain.

Now its your turn to answer me: why is it offensive when a white dude is only attracted to other white dudes, but not offensive when the same white dude is only attracted to black dudes? Im not going to claim an agenda of white hate behind his argument, but if there really is none, it should be relatively easy to draw the line of logic to prove it, since I just drew the line of logic to prove theres no hidden agenda in my preferences.
 
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deleted464787

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I love onions and mushrooms! I liked your food analogy. It's Grindr. I see nothing wrong with stating your likes and dislikes, your preferences period. These days you have to be careful how you word thing because you are going to butthurt someone. Write or wrong the other guy is entitled to his opinion. I have read some of your posts and have followed you for quite sometime and found you are a quite a reasonable guy and you like what you like.
I coild go on but I'd like to see other opinions. Like @rtg said.

Hey! I love mushrooms too! Onions... not so much :mask:

And yes, I agree with that being upfront by stating preferences shouldnt be such a taboo thing to do. Especially in such a situation as Grindr is known for. Im not looking for a husband to spend the rest of my life with and live happily ever after (as in that situation, race is virtually a non-issue). I just want a great orgasm then to take a nap :p
 
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rtg

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Now its your turn to answer me: why is it offensive when I white dude is only attracted to other white dudes, but not offensive when the same white dude is only attracted to black dudes?
Some think that it is offensive. Some believe it is fetishising.

I don’t really have any opinions on this topic as I can see both sides of the argument... so am just relaying other things I’ve read.
 

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Now its your turn to answer me: why is it offensive when I white dude is only attracted to other white dudes, but not offensive when the same white dude is only attracted to black dudes? Im not going to claim an agenda of white hate behind your argument, but if there really is none, it should be relatively easy to draw the line of logic to prove it, since I just drew the line of logic to prove theres no hidden agenda in my preferences.
Okay I'll pick this apart...Homogeny is a real, palpable aspect of humankind, and given the homogenous nature of most of our homelands and subsequent immediate areas(neighborhood, streets, blocks, etc.), there is a stark normality to being attracted to those whom resemble you, so no your white dude affinity is not only not offensive, it's quite expected...The issue is race exists as a construct, a way to compartmentalize the diversity ethnic groups offer...So "Black" or "Asian" or "Latino becomes less about any physical aspect of appearance, but more about the region he/she is descended from. So if a racially Black Asian or Latino man comes along, whose genetic diversity results in a very Caucasian looking package, what do you say then?
Ill also deviate from the 2nd premise fetishism is very offensive so to only be attracted to a specific race other than one's own comes with the same problematic tenets...the same situation arises but in reverse; what happens when the subject of racial desire is racially ambiguous.


Until you've come across the entire spectrum a "race" displays you're euphemising what it is you really mean.
You can claim to like steak only with no onions but what happens in a world where onions look smell and feel like steak and are only different in where they came from? You'd then have to focus on the commonly accepted "oniony" characteristics than just a preference for what could be identical substances until you investigate.
 

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As far as the Asian lady thing, historical context unfortunately works against you. There has been a weird co-fetishism between Asian and European populations for centuries that almost always seems to result in a population of white guys who cant quite figure out what it is about specific asian women(because it's never a general thing) that does it for them that white women do not...Again with so much genetic diversity that could make the two interchangeable of not all out intertwined via interracial results, it makes for an interesting argument to just continue to say "I don't know why".
 
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deleted464787

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Okay I'll pick this apart...Homogeny is a real, palpable aspect of humankind, and given the homogenous nature of most of our homelands and subsequent immediate areas(neighborhood, streets, blocks, etc.), there is a stark normality to being attracted to those whom resemble you, so no your white dude affinity is not only not offensive, it's quite expected...The issue is race exists as a construct, a way to compartmentalize the diversity ethnic groups offer...So "Black" or "Asian" or "Latino becomes less about any physical aspect of appearance, but more about the region he/she is descended from. So if a racially Black Asian or Latino man comes along, whose genetic diversity results in a very Caucasian looking package, what do you say then?

Well, thats a fair enough point. Ill even admit I've had guys on there say "Hey, I know youre into white dudes... how do you feel about light-skinned latinos?"

I suppose it could be worth clarifying that when someone says "Im into white dudes" theyre most likely meaning "characteristics commonly shown in the white community." I mean, lets be honest, I really dont care what someones ethnic heritage is or where they came from... and to top it off, the darkest skinned white dude is probably much darker than the lightest skinned black dude.

So, now is where the people who get offended at all this say "Well why dont you just say that then, instead of 'white dudes'". But then we deal with the problem of allowing them to become the language police. And again, Im sorry that my choice of words is offensive to those people, but I say what I mean. And I don't want to live in a society where I have to tiptoe through every sentence and say 20 words to get the point across when 2 words would do (not to mention, when youre dealing with a character limit of like 150 characters in your bio, its hard to say anything of substance anyways) :p
 

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A racial preference can be racist. It could also not be racist. It depends.

I will say that a lot goes into attraction and there is a certain amount of social training that helps determine what people find attractive.

I lived abroad for many years and during that time my preferences changed from when I was living in the US. Not just racial preference but preferred body types and even behavior preferences changed to be closer to the ideals of the country where I lived.
 

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So, now is where the people who get offended at all this say "Well why dont you just say that then, instead of 'white dudes'". But then we deal with the problem of allowing them to become the language police. And again, Im sorry that my choice of words is offensive to those people, but I say what I mean. And I don't want to live in a society where I have to tiptoe through every sentence and say 20 words to get the point across when 2 words would do (not to mention, when youre dealing with a character limit of like 150 characters in your bio, its hard to say anything of substance anyways) :p
Here's the thing, if you're of European descent then blame your forefathers for language policing because the contructs of race are European derived...and before anybody can be offended by what you say perhaps if you opted to go for 4-7 words instead of the 20 you think are necessary your options would open up and a lot less negativity would be faced. So what exactly are "characteristics common to the white community" because im about to pull up my seat with my popcorn at this point
 

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I think a lot of people don’t understand what preference means first of all.

that’s my main issue with the preference thing


I might prefer all my partners to be curvy and have huge tits but I can also find women who are more slender in shape to be attractive.
 

shard38

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it’s a bit the same for me as with a lot of topics here; why do people make such a fuss about things that don’t touch upon their lifes? So you like white guys. Or blonde women. You might want to own a golden retriever and hate border collies. You may love steak and hate onions. You may travel by plane and hate trains. None of it affects me or my life. If you were to say: “I only buy my steak from a white butcher”, yes, that’s racist.
 

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The implicit suggestion of "I don't find black/asian/insert group guys" attractive is "they all look alike", which frankly is racist. I also consider it racist when you get white men who say "I'm only interested in black men", because that sounds like they're fetishising black men. Both are deeply problematic because they tend to be deeply embedded in stereotypes. It gets more problematic when you write those on a public profile.

I think the term "preference" used here, is a way of being able to dodge analysing how your own attractions have been influenced by the environment you grew up in.
 
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Milkdudd

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Let me break this down into what I believe happens, and my stance on tge issue. Also, I'm black, so I may or may not have any authority in the race department ;-;

I believe preferences in attraction purely come from the stereotypes put onto each race, from day-to-day life, to financial security, to cock size.

Now, I'm not saying if you have these preferences your racist, cause your not (most likely). What I am saying, however, is that based on stereotypes you've heard and observed (not necessarily ones you believe in), your inate view of a particular race is changed. For instance, I'll date/fuck any race, but I'm really into Latina women. I know for a fact this is because of 2 or more steryotypes I have of them:

A- They're passionate lovers. This is a stereotype I don't believe in, but I've heard it so many times, I associate passionate sex with latinas

B- They all have nice, round, voluptuous, shapely asses. This definitely isn't true across the board, but when it is true... Dayum.

I believe none of those stereotypes, and value no race over any other, but still prefer to sleep with a particular one.

Tl:dr: Having preference doesn't make you racist, it just means you've sponged up some stereotypical trends believed to be true.

EDIT: Let me give everyone here what I believe to be a good definition of racism, so you know where I'm coming from, because prejudice /=/ racism

Racism: The act of demeaning, ridiculing, or otherwise hindering the individuals of a particular race; i.e. Banning colored people from eating at my restaurant

Prejudice: An innate hatred, or negative preconception(s) of a certain race or ethnicity based on stereotypes perpetuated voa telecommunications or verbally; belief one's race is superior
 
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marriedasian

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here's the definition of racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

by this definition, "prefering" a white person to an asian person is not really racism, in my opinion. it's more along the lines of a personal choice. i think the reason behind that choice may or may not prove to be racism. there are so much variables here that it may be near-impossible to prove either way.

for example, when i was growing up, i had a strong attraction to white girls more so than asian girls. it's not to say i did not like asian girls because i most certainly did. it's just that if you put a white girl next to an asian girl of equal value, i would go for the white girl. it was my "preference" that was nurtured from my early childhood wherein my parents sent me off to an all-white school to keep me away from the bad-mixed-school kids (i know, stupid-logic on my parents part). as i learned about girls, the only choice i had was white so i grew to like white girls more than other girls. does that make me racist?... possibly, but i don't believe white girls are superior to other girls, it's just what i like. there were also many white girls/women in my life that had zero interest in asian men and it was a hard pill for me to swallow but i never looked at them as racist, i simply took it as they are just not interested in asian men, period. they didn't hate me, or disliked me, or had any ill-feelings towards me as a person or as a man, they just didn't have a thing for asian men... so i moved on, done.

i think when someone plays the race-card your way, it's not about you but about them. they're most likely projecting a bad experience from their life onto you and placing whatever you said out of context without any chance for explanation or recovery on your part. by saying "asian guy seeks white girl"... you will offend people regardless. don't even get me started on how many asian girls i've pissed off in my past because i wouldn't date them and was with a white girl...

i say don't be afraid to ask for what you want and like, and don't feel the need to make up for someone's accusations of you being racist when you are just exercising choice. racism is very real and it does exist in far too many forms. there's no escaping it entirely. simply be respectful of it and steer clear of the negative people who get triggered too fast and take it too far.
 
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