Racism? Or Simply Preference? Who Is Right Here?

[Llbaker]

Ok so then you literally just admitted that you're using bias to make a snap decision.

The fact that you can't even admit that to yourself does not bode well for your assurances that you NEVER make decisions like that in any other area of your life

Racism is about motive behind all kinds of thought, feelings, physical reaction, words, preferences, etc.

BTW: I'm not trying to enforce anything other than refraining from aggressive violence. Values can be corrected by reason over time however if there is a will.

 

[windibundu]

Racism is about motive behind all kinds of thought, feelings, physical reaction, words, preferences, etc.

BTW: I'm not trying to enforce anything other than refraining from aggressive violence. Values can be corrected by reason over time however if there is a will.

Yes, I agree that for many people, racism is about MOTIVE - but I would argue that regardless of motive, racial bias is something that is problematic and worth recognizing when it crosses our radar because it has the potential to do great harm. (ie, "check your white privilege").

 

[Llbaker]

Yes, I agree that for many people, racism is about MOTIVE - but I would argue that regardless of motive, racial bias is something that is problematic and worth recognizing when it crosses our radar because it has the potential to do great harm. (ie, "check your white privilege").

Of course I didn't mean to imply laws restricting certain actions based on bias and discrimination shouldn't exist. I meant that I am not in favor of policing thought and motives. Mainly, I'd like to see some pushback regarding egregious shaming.

 

[hypolimnas]

Of course I didn't mean to imply laws restricting certain actions based on bias and discrimination shouldn't exist. I meant that I am not in favor of policing thought and motives. Mainly, I'd like to see some pushback regarding egregious shaming.

Definitions of racism are relevant if the thread isn't just a platform for other agendas. Subjective and personal definitions trivialise the problem. They also enable any discussion of the topic to be hijacked to include everything and everyone I don't like in the world - as we see in the interchange above. Real racism exists it shouldn't be trivialised by this nonsense.

Racist has followed that path. Today, racist means not only burning a cross on someone’s lawn or even telling someone to go home, but also what feels unpleasant to someone of a race—as in what I as a person of that race don’t like. It has gone from being mean to someone to, also, what feels mean to me.

From The Atlantic -Racist Is a Tough Little Word
The definition has grown and shifted over time.
JOHN MCWHORTERJULY 24, 2019

 

[deleted464787]

Ok so then you literally just admitted that you're using bias to make a snap decision.
The fact that you can't even admit that to yourself does not bode well for your assurances that you NEVER make decisions like that in any other area of your life

No, Im not.

In Grindr, someone sends me a picture of themself, and then I make a decision based on what I see, regardless of the race of the person. Ive fooled around with guys on there before who werent white.

Why would I admit to doing something that I dont do?

 

[spaj8987]

@TS_BlackBird And what are those things? Where do they come from? How are they influenced? Are we human beings born full grown? Do we come into existence 100% complete? With the ideas and notions we currently have?

 

[spaj8987]

@Llbaker Just because you say a thing it doesn't make it true. And just because entire towns of black people aren't currently being murdered and slavery no longer exists as it did it doesn't mean less black people being murdered just because they are black is acceptable. It may be accepted to you personally. But it is not acceptable morally or logically.

Also that question was a question. And it would seem you also support trans-panic. I do not.

 

[spaj8987]

Yes, I agree that for many people, racism is about MOTIVE - but I would argue that regardless of motive, racial bias is something that is problematic and worth recognizing when it crosses our radar because it has the potential to do great harm. (ie, "check your white privilege").

Like i've said before. I don't think just the act of having preferences even when it comes to race is a problem. They do come from somewhere. Which means a person with racial preferences does have a much higher chance of becoming a racist and become the worst kind of racist but generally speaking information should change that.

People not realizing how they are harming someone is one thing. Them having been told by a large number of people in a large number of different ways while they fight against it tooth and nail, while lying their ass off is another.

(I put it in my profile because on Grindr, I’m looking for a quick hookup. Putting that on there will help filter out what I find attractive most often, and find a match more quickly. Could I be missing out on a few people I would otherwise find attractive? Of course! But without it, I would have to weed through sooooo many more profiles, and it would take longer to find a match.)

Seems to me a certain someone's answers and replies change depending on who is in the thread and what they are saying. As if they are a malignant narcissists who created this thread specifically to attack people of color and convince others to do the same.

As if, instead of their preferences being natural in the way of ignorance. That they weeded out and filtered out people of color on purpose knowing the history of race all over the world. And decided that people of color needed to be taught a lesson that even when a white guy is screaming to the top of his lungs that he's a racist. He can still convince others he is not because of white privilege.

It's a weird flex.

 

[Llbaker]

@Llbaker Just because you say a thing it doesn't make it true. And just because entire towns of black people aren't currently being murdered and slavery no longer exists as it did it doesn't mean less black people being murdered just because they are black is acceptable. It may be accepted to you personally. But it is not acceptable morally or logically.

Also that question was a question. And it would seem you also support trans-panic. I do not.

I do not support transpanic as an excuse for murder or assault, period. That should be corrected if courts are still allowing that defense.

I never said ever that any certain lower number of Black people being murdered for racial reasons is acceptable. However, race motivated murder has been minimized by instituting normal law enforcement, imperfect as it is, which admittedly was often absent in the past.

Though perfection in these areas has not been achieved, THAT does not excuse doing nothing regarding small penis shaming that affects BILLIONS of people every day, causing severe psychological damage up to and including suicide. What I'm suggesting is merely improved awareness and developing social pressure against it. In most cases, no reform of the legal system would be appropriate in this regard except maybe officially adding it to "hostile workplace" and "school bullying" definitions.

The idea that ALL advocacy for common decency in regard to the small penis handicap should await the correction of all of society's other problems is ridiculous!

 

[spaj8987]

@Llbaker Yeah...there are less pedophiles in existence does that then mean pedophilia should not be a priority? Rape doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to. Does that mean it shouldn't be a priority? The murdering of the lgbtq people in general doesn't happen as much as it used to. Does that mean it shouldn't be a priority?

See. You're saying these things and others don't happen as much as they used to. Why? What is the logical conclusion to saying something doesn't happen as much in this context if NOT to say there shouldn't be as much focus on it?

In one instance you say you're against trans-panic as a legal defense. In another you say it doesn't happen as much. So why say it doesn't happen as much? What are you implying when you say it doesn't happen as much? If, that is, you aren't trying to say less focus should be put on it?

Here's another problem.

Penis size shaming has also happened less. By your logic.....what? With movements having come up against body shaming in general those who body shame men over the size of their dicks has lessened.

So where are you then?

You: Black people aren't murdered as much as they used to be.

Facts: Penis size shaming isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.

Now don't get me wrong. We haven't actually talked degrees. You have yet to bring that up in any way shape or form. So we could be talking 1% less black people being murdered because they are black. 1% less lgbtq members being murdered because they are a part of the lgbtq community. 1% less women being murdered because they've rejected someone's advances. And 1% less people shaming men because of their size.

We're still within the realm you've created of...there's less of blank so...blank.

So where exactly where you going with the there's less of blank so........................................................

Again. I brought up people being murdered, people being raped, molestation, and a bunch of other things as being the reason why more people don't talk about penis size shaming. Instead of it being an issue of malicious intent. You on the other hand defined it as being different. I explained that death, murder and the rest both logically and morally are more important than penis size shaming. You disagreed.

Meaning you now have to explain why penis size shaming is somehow MORE important and should garner more attention from people THAN murder, rape, molestation and so on.

I didn't put you in the box you current reside. I just pointed it out.

 

[Llbaker]

@Llbaker

Meaning you now have to explain why penis size shaming is somehow MORE important and should garner more attention from people THAN murder, rape, molestation and so on.

I didn't put you in the box you current reside. I just pointed it out.

Never, ever said less attention should be given to murder rape, molestation and so on. Elimination of those crimes should continue to improve and there are advocay groups and movements for just that.

Only said that virtually no attention is given to small penis shaming which is very destructive. I'm saying that should be corrected.

No. There is no need to explain why small penis shaming is MORE important any more than I must explain that parking meter enforcement is necessary even though murder is still a problem.

 

[Llbaker]

@Llbaker Penis size shaming has also happened less. By your logic.....what? With movements having come up against body shaming in general those who body shame men over the size of their dicks has lessened.

This is your main problem: for some reason you cannot accept that small penis shaming is generally NOT included in movements against body shaming, though it should be.

The same people who oppose general body shaming often LOVE and enthusiastically participate in small penis shaming. There is almost NO PUSHBACK to small penis shaming. In fact, it is getting far worse than ever.

Increased awareness of small penis shaming, indulged in by almost the entire global society, takes nothing away from the existing movements to correct the problems you mention.

Your argument is just plain ridiculous.

 

[Llbaker]

@Llbaker Yeah...there are less pedophiles in existence does that then mean pedophilia should not be a priority? Rape doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to. Does that mean it shouldn't be a priority? The murdering of the lgbtq people in general doesn't happen as much as it used to. Does that mean it shouldn't be a priority?h as they used to be.

How more ridiculous can your argument get! Did I ever say those crimes shouldn't be a priority? No.

I'm advocating for some pushback against small penis shaming! Simply adding a priority that, except in rare cases, doesn't even effect the workload of the legal system which addresses the problems you mention

 

[James0909]

This thread is so insufferably wanky

if I don’t want to fuck a person who is black/white/Asian/Arab/trans/effeminate/ etc etc, I won’t.

Are gay men “misogynists” because they reject women? It’s so ridiculous at this point.

 

[Llbaker]

Are gay men “misogynists” because they reject women? It’s so ridiculous at this point.

Some are, actually. Not a universal principle, though!

 

[Llbaker]

No, Im not.

In Grindr, someone sends me a picture of themself, and then I make a decision based on what I see, regardless of the race of the person. Ive fooled around with guys on there before who werent white.

The essence of lookism.

 

[spaj8987]

@Llbaker If someone where to say. Pedophilia is a much higher priority because bad things are still happening to children.

And you replied back with.

You: Yeah but they aren't happening as much.

What do you think others would think about your comment? Hell, what do YOU think about your comment? Again. Where exactly where you going with that?

If someone were to say. Rape should get more focus and attention because people are still being raped.

And you replied back with.

You: Yeah but there are already advocay groups and movements for just that.

What do you think others would think about your comment? Again, what do YOU think about your comment? Where exactly would you be going with that comment as well?

Yes. I agree. You've said that virtually no attention has been given to penis size shaming. Hence why extremes in that instance is valid. There is virtually no attention being given to penis size shaming because...and drum roll please...people are still being murdered because of the color of their skin, because they're women, because they're gay, because they are lesbian, because they are bisexual, because they are trans, because they are muslims, because they are this, because they are that and so on.

There is virtually no attention being given to penis size shaming because...and drum roll please...people are still being raped, children molested, slavery is still a thing, sex trafficking is still a thing, racial profiling, jim crow laws, trans panic and so on.

Many of the groups who do all of that stuff. Still. Fucking. Exist.

So yes. Of course that should take priority of making someone feel bad about the size of their penis. Penis size shaming doesn't murder people, doesn't rape people, doesn't molest people, doesn't enslave them, doesn't torture them within the rule of law and constitution.

It doesn't matter that it doesn't happen as much as it used to. What matters and should matter. Both logically and morally is that it still happens. Period.

And no. Take this very moment for instance. If, this interaction had gone differently. Had you not tried to lessen the negative effects of racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and so on while attempting to prop penis size shaming above them.

We could have still been talking about racism. YOU did that. So while it is possible to have all those conversations at the same time.....

(However, race motivated murder has been minimized by instituting normal law enforcement, imperfect as it is, which admittedly was often absent in the past.)

(Though perfection in these areas has not been achieved, THAT does not excuse doing nothing regarding small penis shaming that affects BILLIONS of people every day, causing severe psychological damage up to and including suicide.)

..you are currently trying to argue that penis size shaming is somehow MORE important, that we should focus MORE attention on penis size shaming than.....*takes in a breath for comedic effect*...racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and so on.

No. In the grand scheme of things. Those issues ARE more important. Have been, are and always will be. Not just because people of color, women, the lgbtq community and so on do still get murdered (which logically and morally should already be enough) but because all those traditionally targeted groups ALSO get made fun of EXACTLY like men with small or smaller do.

In fact those traditionally targeted groups of people get made fun of MORE than men with small or smaller. You could metaphorically throw a stone at the internet and be 100% sure you'll hit at least 30 racist "jokes", sexist "jokes", homophobic "jokes", transphobic "jokes" and so on.

Push that toward brown people/muslims and since 9/11 that shite gets ten fold.

You aren't arguing for SOME push back. Why not? SOME push back already exists. In the form of women telling men that size doesn't matter. Women telling men that their significant others have small or smaller. The left has also at times literally chastised it's own for small penis "jokes" directed at the worst president in modern times. In the black community, i've personally seen people stop small penis "jokes" dead in their tracks. I've read more than a few comments from gay and bisexual men who say size only matters in the extreme.

So no. You aren't arguing for SOME push back. You're arguing for all of it. To the direct detriment of all other issues.

Again.

Why else would you bring up that...well not as many people have been murdered by the kkk, nazis, white supremacists and white nationalists? If not to diminish the lives lost and make it seem as if lives are lost when people make fun of others for having small or smaller?

Serious question too. Why else would you say that?

 

[Llbaker]

@LlbakerYou aren't arguing for SOME push back. Why not? SOME push back already exists. In the form of women telling men that size doesn't matter. Women telling men that their significant others have small or smaller.

Women saying size doesn't matter is not pushback. First of all it is a silly lie, but more importantly DENIAL / MINIMIZATION of the very real small dick handicap. It is like if I said racism is now all in your head. Show me the pushback to small dick jokes.

There is very very little pushback as compared to other issues.

You are pretty much hopeless on this issue.

 

[Llbaker]

Trying to make small penis shaming socially unacceptable does not take away from other issues which you mention.

Neither would it mean small penis shaming is more important than murder. Your arguments are absurd.

 

[deleted464787]

This thread is so insufferably wanky

if I don’t want to fuck a person who is black/white/Asian/Arab/trans/effeminate/ etc etc, I won’t.

Are gay men “misogynists” because they reject women? It’s so ridiculous at this point.

This.

SO MUCH THIS.

Toxic liberals are trying to convince everyone that if you are a man and you wont have sex with a man, youre homophobic. That if you wont have sex with a trans person, youre transphobic. And if you wont have sex with a black guy, youre racist.

Its a fucked up mindset.