Racism

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_Hickboy, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. B_Hickboy

    B_Hickboy New Member

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    I have doubts about whether this web site is an appropriate place to have a serious discussion about race matters. The biggest problem we have in discussing the Principessa ban is the lack of a common vocabulary. Cultural ignorance runs a close second. It really is different here in the US.

    To me, based on my own experiences, racism equates to prejudices + the political/economic power to act upon those prejudices. The system that gives me privilege and economic clout as a white man is inherently racist. I've seen little change since I began to become aware of economic, political, and social imbalances over 40 years ago. Black people, in the USA, in 2010, are not capable of being racist. There is no person or group of people of color who can block me from having easier access to money, government services, education, or anything else. I have privileges that are granted to me automatically as a result of my status as a white person, privileges that are still difficult for a black, especially a black woman, to obtain.

    What Principessa purportedly said was not racist. It might have been an indication of bigotry. Calling a white person a 'cracker' is a mild racial epithet, but mere use of bigoted language does not make a person a bigot. Bigotry is not racism is not prejudice. They're three different things. It's sloppy and imprecise to attempt to use all three terms to mean the same thing. They are not interchangeable.

    What's your definition of racism?
     
  2. Drifterwood

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    Mine starts simply with prejudice, either in thought, action or word.

    As I have just said in her thread, calling someone a cracker is saying that they are the racist stereotype. There is no logic to turn that around to imply that she is racist. The offense is rather being taken in being called a racist, rather than enduring racism.

    I started a thread some time back, suggesting that we could move away from the shackles of race. It didn't get much response. I'll never get "your" one drop practice.
     
  3. Mem

    Mem
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    The problem is not that it's mild, it's that it is a racial epithet.

    If you are implying that blacks can't be racist: fast forward to the 3:30 mark
    YouTube - Chris Rock says who the most racist people are
     
  4. B_Hickboy

    B_Hickboy New Member

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    Anything can be reduced to an either/or proposition if you take it out of context.

    I am reluctant to include what a comedian says during his act in a serious discussion about anything. He's pandering to his audience.
     
  5. naughty

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    Actually the "one drop rule" was a post Reconstruction tactic to bring newly freed slaves and free people of color into line. THere were not always 2 groups Black and White. At one point in the lower south there were many free people of mixed heritage who held vast amounts of property and education. This one drop rule virtually obliterated that class of individuals and placed all people with any degree of African blood under the yoke of what we now call the "Jim Crow" laws. A set of laws that governed the system of segregation. They were precipitated by the post reconstruction case of Plessy vs Fergusson. Plessy being a man of mixed heritage. This was enacted during the forming of what we call the "Jim Crow" laws. . THough this concept did not apply to any other racial designation it was used to subjegate those of any degree of African descent.

    I think this may be why for those of older generations the concept of bi racial grates. Whereas today laws governing relations between blacks and whites have been repealed during even the time of President Obama's birth he would have legally been classified as black with no alternative.
     
  6. Drifterwood

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    Thanks Mem, Chris Rock is the guy I have been trying to remember.

    Is there a nasty word for a Homophobe? If you call a homophobe that term, does it make you a heterophobe?

    I don't think so. The person can object because you have unfarily slandered them, but not that you are a heterophobe.

    I don't see why I shouldn't use the term cracker and I don't see why a black person couln't call another black person a cracker.
     
  7. Xcuze

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    I think this is a good example of a racist statement, frankly!

    How can you exclude "black people" from being racist? Your talking like the word is very specific to certain groups. So you have to have light skin to qualify as a racist? You're on very thin ice with that line of thought!

    A racist is somebody, anybody, who discriminates due to race or colour. Thats my definition.
     
  8. Mem

    Mem
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    If you think that black people can't be racist you do not know the meaning of the word or you have a warped interpretation of what it is.

    rac·ism

       [rey-siz-uh)

    –noun
    1.
    a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement,usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

    2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

    3.hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.



     
  9. naughty

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    HE is not denying that Black people can exhibit bigoted or prejudiced behavior. They very much can. It is the choice of term. Racism, Sexism, Ageism can really only apply to the party who has the ability to enact power that can change the lives and circumstances of others. Got it? IF you didnt , re read his opening statement.
     
  10. Mem

    Mem
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    How can anyone say that black people have no power? That is in itself a racist statement. Are people not aware of who our President is?
     
  11. Xcuze

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    No I aint got it! :rolleyes:

    I read what he meant. He's asking what the definition of racism is. You can't bend and twist words to suit what your own definition is. Or apply it to specific skin colours. Who qualifies as a "black person"? See, thin ice.

    Words are defined. Dictionaries exist.

    Got it?
     
  12. naughty

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    OH, I got it. We are probably not going to have any common ground here today.
     
  13. blkbro510

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    edit: so it's not cool from any one to call anyone else from your race or not, outside their name.



    There's nothing mild about it. I hate hearing the term "jungle bunny" and "uncle tom" it may not be the "n" but trust me folks the rage inside builds. So its cool from any one to call anyone else, from your race or not, outside their name.

    If you want to attack someone attack their character, fuck even their clothes-go watch Mean Girls for a tutorial.
     
  14. B_Hickboy

    B_Hickboy New Member

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    Being white means you don't have to think about it.
     
  15. Drifterwood

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    Yes. Thanks. I find it bizarre that this was happening in the US so little time ago.

    I appreciate that people are proud of their heritage, but maybe until people just say that they are American, as opposed to anything else, there will be an endemic racial division. Maybe we should just say fine, race is important, as important as nationality, gender, faith etc etc. I personally don't think so. You're a Female-Christian-African-American. I am a Male-Atheist-sheepshaggin-European. We're made for each other :biggrin1:

    Then I would rather look for things that bring us together rather than push us apart.
     
  16. Xcuze

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    Well my definition complies the dictionaries so I don't know what your problem is.

    If you wanna make up your own definition, knock y'self out!

    And spare me the patronising tone. Its very annoying to an adult. Very.
     
  17. Mem

    Mem
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  18. Mem

    Mem
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    White guilt refers to the concept of individual or collective guilt often said to be felt by some White people for the racist treatment of people of color by Whites both historically and presently.[1] The term is generally used in a pejorative way (and in a partisan fashion within American political circles).
    White guilt has been described as one of several psychosocial costs of racism for White individuals along with the ability to have empathic reactions towards racism, and fear of non-Whites
     
  19. naughty

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    Xcuse,

    we can go back and forth all day. I too have gotten definitions of the word and the first and second definitions here comply with what I say. I will concur with you that it has multiple meanings. We are not saying this doesnt exist. We are dealing with symantics here.As for my patronizing you or anyone else that is not my intention. I just felt that because of the very volatile and closed nature of responses here there really may not be any opportunity to see what Hickboy is trying to say. Here is what I found...

    rac·ism

       /ˈreɪhttp://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngsɪzhttp://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəm/ http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif Show Spelled[rey-siz-uhhttp://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif Show IPA
    –noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement,usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.




    Use racism in a Sentence


    See images of racism


    Search racism on the Web
     
    #19 naughty, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  20. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Comedians, in certain ways, are some of the best people to speak on the subject of race. For starters, they can touch on the volatile subject in a way where people are more accepting to criticism. They also can point out the absurdity fueling many racist sentiments by turning it into a joke. With the exception of poetry, stand up comedy is probably one of the purest and most honest forms of expression left in our society today. Which is not to say that either one of the art forms can't be manipulated to push an agenda, but if someone wanted to go on stage and talk about how weird they are they can... and it's accepted. There's no spelling and/or grammatical checks. No extra points if you use more decorative synonyms instead of the simplistic form of a word. You're free to use whatever language you want to convey your feelings, as long as it doesn't become too much of a personal attack and more of a delicate nudge into ideologies that people may be uncomfortable with. Plus, laughter breaks down the invisible walls that exist between people faster than any other emotion out there. What better way to feel as if you're not alone than to find someone, from a completely different walk of life, laughing at the same exact thing you are? Finally... someone that gets what you're feeling at that precise moment.

    Many of the open forums that try to promote an "honest discussion" about race get caught up in trying to force people to adhere to an ethical standard of decency. The concept of decency will differ from person to person anyhow, so you're already working at a disadvantage. It also alienates those who may not be able to articulate their views as eloquently as the next person. When people are too worried about looking intelligent, it prevents some people from being truly honest about their feelings. The motives behind such things are great, but the execution tends to be lacking.
     
    #20 B_VinylBoy, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
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