Rape, a turn on?

petite

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I was so obviously joking about being a board certified psychologist... I can't comprehend how you didn't see that..

I give up. I thought you meant you were talking about your second post. I suppose you were really serious about that one now? So me and the other two people who took it seriously were correct in our comprehension?

I see now, that last thing that you wrote about being the armchair version. I don't know how I missed it.
 
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StraightCock4Her

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I give up. I thought you meant you were talking about your second post. I suppose you were really serious about that one now? So me and the other two people who took it seriously were correct in our comprehension?

I find this entire conversation so irritating that I'm considering putting you on ignore.

Well, jokes and sarcasm don't always come through text very well, this is obvious from this conversation alone.

I was serious in the first post, but I was wrong to think that those two indicators were enough to jump to the conclusion of sexual assault in her past. Even if they are both strong indicators.

Oh, I remember now, I heard that being homosexual or bisexual is a possible indicator of an assault from the radio show "love line," the doctor (MD I think) on that radio show was a very smart guy and I remember loving that show when I was around 22.
 

nohidingstyle

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@petite:

Women never fantasize about wanting to be raped by a man that they don't want to have sex with, so logically a "rape fantasy" cannot be a rape at all because the woman wants to have sex with the man. Consent removes the "rape" from the act, and desire and trust can make it fun. Consent, desire, and trust make the role playing of the fantasy completely different from the reality of non-consent and fear. This is the reason why feminists prefer that "rape fantasies" be called "ravishment fantasies" in order to distinguish the two for men who get confused over the difference. The feminists are obviously correct, since so many men in this thread have shown a difficult time distinguishing the difference between fantasy and reality.

best thing i've seen you post. you seem to have some interesting principles guiding your thoughts. what do you think of this hypothetical situation:

my girlfriend tells me she has a rape/ravishment fantasy. i tell her something reasonable like maybe i'll be rougher but i could never hurt her. then later at some point later, i force sex on her in a context framed by the fantasy (but not at that time mentioned) and clearly as a "rape" type scenario. then after it is done i leave. if it is ever mentioned in conversation later i deny that i ever did it.

what do you think of that hypothetical situation? for me it's just a theoritcal thing... trying to satisfy the ravishment fantasy as closely to the boundary between fantasy and reality as possible.
 

petite

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Well, jokes and sarcasm don't always come through text very well, this is obvious from this conversation alone.

For some reason I read the first part but I completely missed the part where you said you were the "armchair version" so that's completely my mistake. My own irritation was mostly caused by my failure to be more observant!

I was serious in the first post, but I was wrong to think that those two indicators were enough to jump to the conclusion of sexual assault in her past. Even if they are both strong indicators.

This fantasy that is commonly called a "rape fantasy" is amazingly common, but when women describe their fantasies, they don't describe crying and being terrified and wounded and emotionally scarred, they fantasize that someone they desire uses force to do what they want them to do to them while they experience excitement and pleasure, so the fantasy that's described bears very little resemblance to actual rape. Hence the preference for an entirely different name for the fantasy, the "ravishment fantasy."

That's the reason why I don't believe it indicates a history of sexual abuse, because of the lack of resemblance of the common fantasy with actual sexual assault.

Oh, I remember now, I heard that being homosexual or bisexual is a possible indicator of an assault from the radio show "love line," the doctor (MD I think) on that radio show was a very smart guy and I remember loving that show when I was around 22.

Dr. Drew! I remember him. I loved that show, too. Unrelated, but I've had a personal experience with that show that was one of the surrealist moments of my life, but then I would be digressing...

@petite:
best thing i've seen you post. you seem to have some interesting principles guiding your thoughts. what do you think of this hypothetical situation:

my girlfriend tells me she has a rape/ravishment fantasy. i tell her something reasonable like maybe i'll be rougher but i could never hurt her. then later at some point later, i force sex on her in a context framed by the fantasy (but not at that time mentioned) and clearly as a "rape" type scenario. then after it is done i leave. if it is ever mentioned in conversation later i deny that i ever did it.

what do you think of that hypothetical situation? for me it's just a theoritcal thing... trying to satisfy the ravishment fantasy as closely to the boundary between fantasy and reality as possible.

Thank you. It sounds like you want to "surprise" her with a ravishment fantasy. That's not a good idea. Something like that needs to be carefully discussed. I think the two of you need to outline more specifically what will or won't happen. It may take a bit of the spontaneity out of the scenario, but you need to know more about what parts of her fantasy specifically arouse her and what she doesn't want to happen. You need to know what she really likes in her fantasy so that's what happens. And you need a safe word.

If you want a very realistic scenario, with an abduction and everything, then that also needs to be carefully discussed even more than your typical ravishment fantasy, which isn't usually very elaborate, you need to get what the two of you have agreed to in writing, and both of you need to sign it. You may also want to get a voice recording of the two of you discussing it for both of you to keep. That will protect you if your scenario is too real for her and she wants to press charges against you.

I would never recommend jumping straight into a full scale elaborate scenario like that. It would be irresponsible of both of you. You really need to start with a tame scenario and work up to it as she learns to trust you and you discover what she wants from you.
 
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nohidingstyle

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thanks petite. good advice. i've never seriously considered doing this, it's just floating around. this was a good grounding response. also the idea of a signed consent form, while in some way disheartening, is also probably something that would have to happen before i'd do anything like this. i wouldn't want to go to jail for making a "small" mistake of overstepping a boundary or a miscommunication.

also, petite: i see a lot of your posts on here and i really really admire you!
 
D

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As a psychologist, not clinical but a psychologist nonetheless, I do know the source of this fantasy. It's about letting go and being ravished, which is why ravishment fantasy is a good description, without any guilt whatsoever.

We in the West have been good as supressing female sexuality, and we still to, the term slut for example. But you can't be a slut in the ravishment fantasy, because it's all out of your control. Does this make sense?

This can be role-played if you like, and my wife and I have done it with a few different scenarios. You need to know about role-play and safe words, but it can lead to good fun and intense pleasure (for me as much as for her). We always plan the scenario before it happens (she might be a burglar breaking into the house, and ends up submitting in order to avoid the police being called). Then you can dress up, get props, and agree boundaries and the safe-word. Once it starts it's surprisingly easy to slip into character, and then it's all that you want it to be.
 
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petite

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thanks petite. good advice. i've never seriously considered doing this, it's just floating around. this was a good grounding response. also the idea of a signed consent form, while in some way disheartening, is also probably something that would have to happen before i'd do anything like this. i wouldn't want to go to jail for making a "small" mistake of overstepping a boundary or a miscommunication.

also, petite: i see a lot of your posts on here and i really really admire you!

Thank you, I appreciate that!

There should be no issues with overstepping boundaries as long as you have a safe word that the two of you agree upon and you stop when she uses it. This isn't something you should do unless there's mutual trust between you and your partner.

You should always start small, and fairly tame. The scenario you described sounds like an advanced level of role playing and if it resembles actual rape too much, and that's what she really really wants, then I would insist to her that you protect yourself. Most women don't want that, which is why you need to talk to her about exactly what it is that she wants in detail.


As a psychologist, not clinical but a psychologist nonetheless, I do know the source of this fantasy. It's about letting go and being ravished, which is why ravishment fantasy is a good description, without any guilt whatsoever.

We in the West have been good as supressing female sexuality, and we still to, the term slut for example. But you can't be a slut in the ravishment fantasy, because it's all out of your control. Does this make sense?

This can be role-played if you like, and my wife and I have done it with a few different scenarios. You need to know about role-play and safe words, but it can lead to good fun and intense pleasure (for me as much as for her). We always plan the scenario before it happens (she might be a burglar breaking into the house, and ends up submitting in order to avoid the police being called). Then you can dress up, get props, and agree boundaries and the safe-word. Once it starts it's surprisingly easy to slip into character, and then it's all that you want it to be.

You've hit the nail on the head for me, personally. I think that's the source of my ravishment fantasy, and the reason why it's so popular and so common. If you give it up for the hot guy, then that makes you a whore, too easy, it's a pleasure that makes you think less of yourself. If the hot guy that you burn for, burns back for you with the same intensity, does what you what him to do to you, takes it from you, and you didn't just give it all for him, then you got to enjoy that hot guy's cock because he made you enjoy it, and it's free from all that cultural baggage that is heaped on women's sexuality.

Does that resemble real rape? Not in the least.
 
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Keleios

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Ah! This is a subject I've been interested in since reading some rather charming Victorian "bodice rippers" in my teens.

It's a difficult thing, I think, for some people to admit to wanting this and for others to understand fully as there are obviously certain connotations and assumptions where the word "Rape" is concerned. Ravishment is a much better term for the fantasy but these days, not many people use it.

In erotic fiction dealing with this subject, the underlying themes are of power, subjugation and domination. I think though, that the unmentioned and really important one is trust.
Increasingly, in today's society, trust is becoming a lacking thing. Not only in relationships but more generally as well. Marriage contracts, pre-nups etc... and especially (already brought up in this topic) that if you are a man and were to indulge in a Ravishment/Rape fantasy, there's a possibility of someone calling it the real thing and serious repercussions resulting. To me, that's an extremely horrible thing for someone to have to consider but the reality of it exists so honest discussion beforehand, caution in planning and a mutually agreed safe word must always be advised.

Considering what's been said about the reasons as to why a woman would fantasize about this and possibly make that fantasy a reality, cbrmale made a really good point when he said:

"We in the West have been good as supressing female sexuality, and we still to, the term slut for example. But you can't be a slut in the ravishment fantasy, because it's all out of your control."

Sex is something to be enjoyed, by everyone both male and female. Unfortunately there are still many people who'd consider a woman who is open about her desire to have sex and who achieves that desire, to be a slut. And not simply, as is the case, a woman who enjoys physical interaction.

From a personal point of view, I've entertained Ravishment fantasies for many years. They've never been about getting genuinely hurt, physically abused or even about being belittled as a woman. There's a submissive aspect certainly, and honestly... Yes, being used as an object for sex but in a way that provides pleasure for both the people involved and not something that's single-sided.
I'd never agree to do something like that with someone whom I didn't trust implicitly, it's like making a secret gift of your body to another person and there's no damn way that should be done if there's a chance of genuine harm either physical, mental or emotional occurring.
And back to trust for my last point; people are so full of worry when it comes to getting hurt emotionally, especially within relationships. After all, it's the mental and emotional pain which is the longest lasting when something goes wrong. So, in some cases, indulging a Ravishment fantasy would allow for sex with someone whom you may not trust with your love and emotions but you can trust not to hurt you physically.
Example being, sex with someone who's extremely physically attractive but is otherwise a total scoundrel.

Sex is a natural and extremely pleasurable act and this particular fantasy relates to the base desires of both women and men. Sometimes, women want to have a powerful man who is totally in control of her physically and I think men can appreciate having that power and being able to use it.
A shame but perhaps understandable, that some people would consider anyone who has this fantasy to have it for the wrong reasons or assume that it's only there because of some past traumatic experience. But I think that if people are honest about their fantasies and there's open communication between the bearer of them and whoever they'd like to indulge with, there's no reason as to why a Ravishment fantasy cannot be encouraged, explored and fully enjoyed.
 
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petite

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And back to trust for my last point; people are so full of worry when it comes to getting hurt emotionally, especially within relationships. After all, it's the mental and emotional pain which is the longest lasting when something goes wrong. So, in some cases, indulging a Ravishment fantasy would allow for sex with someone whom you may not trust with your love and emotions but you can trust not to hurt you physically.
Example being, sex with someone who's extremely physically attractive but is otherwise a total scoundrel.

So true! The ravishment fantasy does allow for this possibility! I have known many a sexy bastard over my lifetime, and I can imagine that the ravishment fantasy would be the only way to enjoy fantasizing about such a man.

I suspect that there may be other root sources for the ravishment fantasy for women, but I cannot think of any others right now.
 

berghaus

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Hmmm. Velly inerlesting. What would it mean for a bi-curious guy to have the same fantasy? To be taken by force? Albeit by a guy, or guys that are all disease free and take the time to lube up first...
 

petite

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Hmmm. Velly inerlesting. What would it mean for a bi-curious guy to have the same fantasy? To be taken by force? Albeit by a guy, or guys that are all disease free and take the time to lube up first...

That's an answer that only you really know!

I suspect that some people may be turned on by the domination aspect and it's only a matter of time before someone pipes up and declares that as their main interest with this fantasy.

Whatever your reasons are, that's not a question I would dare to condescend to answer for you. I don't know you well enough and I don't know how your fantasy plays out, or what parts of it are the parts that really interest or arouse you, all things that I would need to know before I could even take a wild stab at guessing what's going on with you personally, and then it would only be a guess. You know yourself and what's going on with you so much better than I do!
 

ZOS23xy

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I had two gf's into that.

One insisted that I let her fight me off while we had sex. She started pounding on me and I was like...what the hell...she got mad at me for stopping. The whole simulated rape thing really did it for her - but not me. I had to end that relationship.

Sounds stupid. You could eventually forget that and progress into the role.

I'm not in favor of this kind of fantasy, and only had a woman I dated briefly, ask me the questions:

"How come you never hit me? All my other boyfriends did." She assumed it was the way all men and women did the dating ritual. She kind of asked if I would hit her, so I would be like all the others.

I stopped dating her.
 

petite

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Sounds stupid. You could eventually forget that and progress into the role.

I agree that he could have learned, but he may not be into that sort of thing. It's not for everyone.

I'm not in favor of this kind of fantasy, and only had a woman I dated briefly, ask me the questions:

"How come you never hit me? All my other boyfriends did." She assumed it was the way all men and women did the dating ritual. She kind of asked if I would hit her, so I would be like all the others.

I stopped dating her.

I don't think that you're saying that this is a ravishment fantasy, and if that's what you're trying to say, then I agree with you. This sounds like something else entirely, a woman accustomed to actual abuse, not a ravishment fantasy!
 

petite

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And those who'd fantasize about it are not much removed from her view.

I'm sorry, you lost me here. What do you mean?

You seem to be implying that women who have ravishment fantasies are not very different from that woman you dated who expected to be abused in her relationship, which would be a very ignorant assumption considering the amount of discussion of the topic in this thread.
 

ZOS23xy

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I'm sorry, you lost me here. What do you mean?

You seem to be implying that women who have ravishment fantasies are not very different from that woman you dated who expected to be abused in her relationship, which would be a very ignorant assumption considering the amount of discussion of the topic in this thread.

I'll plead ignorance because I'm not into fantasy/role playing in sex. I need no special situation to have sex. My wife and I get into bed, touch one another and it happens.

Rape fantasy would be a turn off. With the emotions I have felt in dealing with a few women I know who have been raped, I find the whole thing....the fantasy idea...to be disgusting.
 

petite

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I'll plead ignorance because I'm not into fantasy/role playing in sex. I need no special situation to have sex. My wife and I get into bed, touch one another and it happens.

Rape fantasy would be a turn off. With the emotions I have felt in dealing with a few women I know who have been raped, I find the whole thing....the fantasy idea...to be disgusting.

I find actual rape to be disgusting also. Trust me, I really do.

I'm going to reiterate this point:

Calling it a "rape fantasy" is a complete misnomer. It should be called something else, feminists prefer the term "ravishment fantasy." The reasons are these:

Women never fantasize about wanting to be raped by a man that they don't want to have sex with, so logically a "rape fantasy" cannot be a rape at all because the woman wants to have sex with the man. Consent removes the "rape" from the act, and desire and trust can make it fun. Consent, desire, and trust make the role playing of the fantasy completely different from the reality of non-consent and fear. This is the reason why feminists prefer that "rape fantasies" be called "ravishment fantasies" in order to distinguish the two for men who get confused over the difference. The feminists are obviously correct, since so many men in this thread have shown a difficult time distinguishing the difference between fantasy and reality.

This fantasy that is commonly called a "rape fantasy" is amazingly common, but when women describe their fantasies, they don't describe crying and being terrified and wounded and emotionally scarred, they fantasize that someone they desire uses force to do what they want them to do to them while they experience excitement and pleasure, so the fantasy that's described bears very little resemblance to actual rape. Hence the preference for an entirely different name for the fantasy, the "ravishment fantasy."

That's the reason why I don't believe it indicates a history of sexual abuse, because of the lack of resemblance of the common fantasy with actual sexual assault.

As a psychologist, not clinical but a psychologist nonetheless, I do know the source of this fantasy. It's about letting go and being ravished, which is why ravishment fantasy is a good description, without any guilt whatsoever.

We in the West have been good as supressing female sexuality, and we still to, the term slut for example. But you can't be a slut in the ravishment fantasy, because it's all out of your control. Does this make sense?

You've hit the nail on the head for me, personally. I think that's the source of my ravishment fantasy, and the reason why it's so popular and so common. If you give it up for the hot guy, then that makes you a whore, too easy, it's a pleasure that makes you think less of yourself. If the hot guy that you burn for, burns back for you with the same intensity, does what you what him to do to you, takes it from you, and you didn't just give it all for him, then you got to enjoy that hot guy's cock because he made you enjoy it, and it's free from all that cultural baggage that is heaped on women's sexuality.

Does that resemble real rape? Not in the least.

And back to trust for my last point; people are so full of worry when it comes to getting hurt emotionally, especially within relationships. After all, it's the mental and emotional pain which is the longest lasting when something goes wrong. So, in some cases, indulging a Ravishment fantasy would allow for sex with someone whom you may not trust with your love and emotions but you can trust not to hurt you physically.
Example being, sex with someone who's extremely physically attractive but is otherwise a total scoundrel.

So true! The ravishment fantasy does allow for this possibility! I have known many a sexy bastard over my lifetime, and I can imagine that the ravishment fantasy would be the only way to enjoy fantasizing about such a man.

I suspect that there may be other root sources for the ravishment fantasy for women, but I cannot think of any others right now.

petite said:
I suspect that some people may be turned on by the domination aspect and it's only a matter of time before someone pipes up and declares that as their main interest with this fantasy.
 
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Keleios

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Sounds stupid. You could eventually forget that and progress into the role.

I'm not in favor of this kind of fantasy, and only had a woman I dated briefly, ask me the questions:

"How come you never hit me? All my other boyfriends did." She assumed it was the way all men and women did the dating ritual. She kind of asked if I would hit her, so I would be like all the others.

I stopped dating her.

Good lord, that's disturbing and very sadly, an example of someone's past experience shaping their present and future relationship expectations.
I can definitely understand why that would give cause for disliking the type of fantasy being discussed here and it also goes to show why some people think women with these fantasies must have them for the wrong reasons.

I think the distinction between a "Rape" fantasy and a "Ravishment" fantasy is an extremely important one and must be understood by both parties involved so there is no possible chance for mistakes or misunderstanding if the fantasy is to be realized.
I'm pretty sure there are some people who would indulge in the former, those who fall into the categories of masochists and sadists and would therefore enjoy extremely risky situations and physical pain but getting Ravished is entirely different.

Having power over someone else doesn't mean you have to abuse it, the point of power in a Ravishment fantasy is that it exists tacitly, allowing for a dynamic and thrilling situation to be played out.
And to clarify semantically, being thrilled does not mean being terrified and a Ravishment fantasy, as I see it, certainly doesn't involve getting physically abused in the nasty sense.

The common usage of the term "Rape Fantasy" to describe any situation in which a woman wants a man to take her entirely and forcefully is not a good thing; but where sex and lust are concerned, people don't always take the time to consider the exact implications of the words they're using or possible consequences for any misunderstanding.

It's ironic that all the necessary precautions to planning something like this can have a detrimental effect on the nature of the event. If role-play is being assigned and discussed and you have to cover all the safety aspects whilst explaining what you want to happen and how you want it to happen, all the details can turn into a porn film plot and you risk losing the spontaneity, the excitement and the thrill.
So again and again with the trusting... To fulfill a Ravishment fantasy, you want to be able to do it with someone who knows you well enough to be able to understand your desires without you having to spell absolutely everything out so that there's room for a basic scenario and plenty of improvisation. And you need to be able to trust that person not to take things too far and to stop absolutely if you use the safe word. They also have to trust in you, that you know yourself well enough not to let them push the limits to a point where you'll regret it and will then blame them if anything goes wrong.
Protip: don't go ravishing strangers.

I make this sound all so complicated and with so much to consider but at the end of the day, two-way communication beforehand is the best possible way to prevent unpleasantness occurring.