Real IRA to 'resume attacks on UK

Discussion in 'Politics' started by dong20, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. dong20

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    "The Real IRA has said it will resume attacks on the UK mainland - with banks and bankers its principal targets.

    Vowing to alternate between "military, political and economic targets", the republican terror group has said that bankers are "criminals" and their role in funding Britain's colonial and capitalist system "has not gone unnoticed".

    Responding to questions from The Guardian, a spokesman for the Real IRA said: "We have a track record of attacking high-profile economic targets and financial institutions."

    There have been rumblings in N.I. for a while and this is a comparatively small group with no real history of significant action on the mainland.

    The language used in the article seems strangely off key to me, in terms of acheiving a political aim, or did they just decide that banks (and bankers) have got it coming?

    Is this pot stirring from a group seeking to 'big' itself up in the media, or a real step back toward a slippery slope?

    Terror Group In Warning To 'Criminal' Bankers
     
  2. Jason

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    God help us all!

    The peace process has done so much for Northern Ireland. It has been helped by a period of economic prosperity. But now we have the Irish Republic with dire austerity measures - and it's getting worse. In Northern Ireland there is a property market that is flatter than a pancake that's been stem-rollered and a bed-rock of unemployment, plus sink estates where there's not much to do other than think how horrible your neighbour is. I suppose a test of the peace process in Northern Ireland is whether it can survive an economic winter.

    Real IRA - and other splinter groups - no longer have a coherent aim. The old mantra of a reunified Ireland cannot be held with the changed constitution of the Irish Republic, the disinterest of almost everyone in the Irish Republic for this idea and the firm opposition of the majority in Northern Ireland. Rather the IRA splinter groups are Marxists and Anarchists seeking to spread terror for the sake of spreading terror.

    There are very real issues aroud Sinn Fein's links with these splinters. Sinn Fein brought IRA to decommissioning, though Gerry Adams famously announced that the IRA had not gone away. Now we have groups which are formed from the IRA with a nebulous relationship with Sinn Fein. Now we need political leadership from Sinn Fein to condemn Real IRA.
     
  3. ManlyBanisters

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    The various flavours of the IRA have always maintained the "Armalite and the ballot box" approach. It's been the turn of the ballot box for the last while but I will never fully trust any of those hardcore Republicans not to maintain the Armalite in the background and bring it to the fore when they feel it expedient.

    Contrary to popular belief there was never mainstream support for the violent activities of the Provisional IRA, or any other Republican group, in the 70s and 80s. What there was was a very real support for the Catholic civil rights movement in the North - which is an entirely different matter. Catholics were treated unfairly on an institutional level and the police and army were brutal in the way they attempted to control the Provos (et al) by controlling the Catholic population. This is mostly not the case any more.

    I'm not saying there was no support in the Republic for the violent actions of Republican groups, that would be a blatant lie - but the support of the hunger strikers and the Birmingham 6 was a civil rights issue and far more widely supported than, for example, the murder of Lord Mountbatten or the Brighton bombing.

    I don't believe the so-called Real IRA have the support of Sinn Fein, though some Sinn Fein members (even those high up) may well be privately sympathetic. Unfortunately, I also don't believe that an outright condemnation from the Sinn Fein leadership will be issued.

    I think it may well be both.
     
  4. superbot

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    These people/animals are beyond contempt,too stupid to realise that once you enter the democratic process you can't go back.They have clearly backed themselves into a corner.But how 'trendy' of them to latch onto the bankers as being their new target.Good grief, is there no originality!!!! They're almost as irrelevant as Bob Crowe!!
     
    #4 superbot, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  5. ManlyBanisters

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    Did you not read my post or do you just not understand the concept of the Armalite and the ballot box strategy? I would have thought it was fairly self-explanatory.

    Besides, the 'Real IRA' were never involved in the peace process and never accepted decommissioning.

    Says who? Is that your rule? Do you expect the people who were willing to murder 29 men, women and children and injure 100's of others in Omagh (1998), jeopardising the entire peace process (as was their aim), to play by your rules? OK, sure - good luck with that.

    Besides - what the fuck else choice does the North have but to carry on with the peace process as is. The alternative is to go back to the way of things in the 60s, 70s and 80s where the brutal treatment of the innocent and the guilty alike, based on religion, surname and what part of town you lived in, where a young man was only innocent til proven Catholic, galvanised a generation of socio-economically disadvantaged people into an organised, lethal and economically successful terrorist force. Is that what you want?
     
  6. Joll

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    Is there an element of retaliation to it? I heard something about alleged UDF or UVF violence yesterday (not sure if it was recent or not), which may have something to do with a reprisal?

    Can't find it on the BBC NI page to verify it. :/
     
  7. Jason

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    In the last few weeks we've had three key reports. The one around Claudy is the one that is causing the problems. This report has shown that a Roman Catholic priest in Claudy was an IRA terrorist murderer, that the Roman Catholic church knew this and was complicit (with the UK government and police) in hushing this up, moving him just across the border where he could continue his terrorist activities.

    Throughout the Troubles the less savoury elements within the Unionist movement have used abusive terms about the Roman Catholic priesthood - in particular they have called them paedophiles and terrorists (though they often used more colourful terms). The child sex abuse scandal within the whole island of Ireland (and internationally) is now old news. That a Roman Catholic priest has been shown by a report to be an IRA terrorist has caused similar shock. This issue, like the child sex abuse issue, was covered up by the RC church so that more terrorist activity could be carried out by this person. Of course the whisper (in Northern Ireland) is that this is just the one example that has come to light. And the UK government could not solve the problems of the Troubles because the RC Church was actively supporting terrorism, and the UK government did not feel able to take on the RC Church. The Republican movement during the Troubles is now being interpreted by many in Northern Ireland as an alliance of the Roman Catholic church, Libyan-backed terrorism and Marxist politics, with the RC church at the level of the Vatican well aware that it was sheltering both paedophile priets and terrorist priests.

    This is a bitter pill for many. For the extremist Republicans living on sink housing estates there is a sense that their back is against the wall. The Irish Republic gives them no support. Presumably the RC church is no-longer sheltering terrorist priests (just as presumably it is no longer sheltering paedophile priests) so they've lost their RC church support. The international mood is firmly behind the Peace Process. The vast majority of people in NI are behind the Peace Process - and so the extremists lash out. They have no coherent objectives, minimal support - rather they just want to create terror.

    We need leadership from Sinn Fein. It occurs to me that we need leaderhip from the Vatican also. If these don't act the terrorists will gain momentum.
     
  8. midlifebear

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    Well, political extremist groups seem to be having a bit of a comeback all over Europe. As the UK deals with renewed threats from the IRA I consider the odds of being blown up by the ETA on the green line of the Barcelona Metro. Ya take yer chances just crossing the street.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    The hunger strikers achieved nothing of lasting significance - Sinn Fein did a u-turn and accepted a deal that was on the table 8 years before they died. Gormless stooges brainwashed into dying in vain so the pernicious secterian machine that is ira/sein fein had a few more googly doe eyed pawns to exploit the likenesses of cynically and stick on propaganda literature at north american fundraisers to extort more money from ignorant wealthy "irish" American socialites / glitterate..

    To quote a Manic Street Preachers song.. Remember victims. despise Martyrs.

    Irrespective of what political ideology these people claim to subscribe to they have no right to casually toss and threaten the prospect of killing / maiming others in terrorist campaigns for the purposes of what seems to boil down to derelict murderous posturing . scumbags.
     
    #9 Victoria, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  10. ManlyBanisters

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    I didn't say the hunger strikers achieved anything nor that they were great political philosophers nor that the hunger strikes were justification of anything.

    Do you have an actual point you're trying to make on this thread topic or even on a closely related topic?

    A gross misrepresentation of what the report has published as having happened.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2010/aug/24/claudy-bombing-report-priest-northern-ireland

    It appears the government asked for help from the Church in covering up this priest's involvement for fear of the backlash. It appears the Church obliged, though it also appears that, despite the report's findings, the Church is still denying that.

    Did the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland behave immorally in this matter? Yes. Did the Provisional IRA or any other Republican terrorist group have the full might of Rome behind them? No, of course they bloody didn't.
     
  11. Jason

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    A lot of it is around perception. There was a perception in both communities in Northern Ireland and on the UK mainland that the IRA was tolerated by the RC church. The RC church didn't act to break down this view. For example they did not excommunicate IRA terrorists - nor did they speak up in condemning IRA atrocities. Did the IRA have the full might of Rome behind them? Presuambly not - but they had some level of support.

    Claudy was impossible for the UK authorities because of the RC church. The natural course would have been to arrest a terrorist murderer and try him. But had this been done Northern Ireland's RC community would have taken to the streets in mass in a civil war - there would have been a blood bath. So the UK authorities had to negotiate with the RC church for a solution - and the RC church did the least it could possibly do. They moved him just a few miles from Claudy to Co Donegal, just across the border. At the least what was wrong with sending him on some mission to a cannibal tribe in the tropics? Correct action from the RC church would have been for the church to announce that it fully suported the authorities in bringing him to trial, stripping him of his parish and working for calm in the community - exactly the action they should have applied for the paedophile priets.
     
  12. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    Ah what's the point? I don't even indulge in discussions about The Troubles in RL. Attempting to point by point refute this silly and superficial characterisation would be pointless. I suggest you read a little further on the period of the Hunger Strikes and perhaps attempt to view it through a less Anglicised lens.

    And if you think Bobby Sands and others were somehow brainwashed by a shadowy Sinn Féin propaganda machine you really ought to read up on the generations of Irish men and women who gave their lives for the cause of Irish freedom and who gladly made the ultimate sacrifice to try to secure a future in which Ireland was governed by the Irish.

    The "derelict murderous posturing" you refer to, is that the aspiration that Ireland should be free of British military and political domination and an accompanying Protestant sectarianism which made Roman Catholics second class citizens in their own country for centuries?

    I'll be clear for you, I despise the Provisional IRA, and I think Sinn Féin in its post-War of Independence form is morally dubious at best and morally bankrupt at worst. However dismissing the personal sacrifices of people like Bobby Sands and showing a total ignorance of the effect those sacrifices have had on millions of Irish people (in Ireland, in the UK, and elsewhere) is peremptory and foolish.

    Quoting a mediocre pop-rock band as moral authority doesn't lend much gravitas to what you're saying either.
     
    #12 D_Tim McGnaw, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  13. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    Bobby sands wasn't remarkable still isn't and certainly not the grotesque "christ" type figure he was sculpted into posthumously. He was a pawn .his death achieved nothing - sein fein accepted the same concessions ultimately that were on the table 8 year prior to his death.
    I'll split this into smaller chunks for you so you have less difficulty in understanding. Bobby-Sands-chose-To-Starve-Himself-To-Death-For-Nothing. The innocents (women,children,men,boys,toddlers,babies,unborn babies) the ira killed MADE NO SUCH CHOICE to die.

    Do you understand now?


    As for northern Ireland, or ireland - you being from neither and only having press cuttings , vogue ideas of Irish suffrage to go on and a few relatives from there so it perhaps gives you a questionable sense of entitlement to hold an opinion and ignorantly voice it.. you are neither qualified or entitled to frame or contextualize your perceived ideas of what happened and present them as fact much less attempt to patronize others into accepting them. :rolleyes:
     
    #13 Victoria, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  14. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    You're extremely angry, unless you were directly touched by the IRA's campaign in any real way I fail to see how you think you have a right to evince such a stentorian tone. In fact doing so in the absence of such a right would be in the poorest possible taste.

    I am actually from Ireland, in as much as I was educated here, and have lived here for more than half my life, and do in fact come from an Irish background, not that this makes much difference really the point is that whatever my nationality I have clearly bothered to try to inform myself of slightly more than the Daily Telegraph's view of Irish politics and culture. You're entitled to presume anything you like about the effect of the hunger strikes on this country, there were as many different individual opinions and reactions to them as there were people who followed the situation at the time, and still are.

    I didn't actually express an opinion on the hunger strikers and nor did I present anything as fact, you did. I had no intention of patronising you in to accepting my opinions, the more so since I never expressed any. I pointed out that your own vehemently angry opinions were redolent of someone with an entirely superficial and anglicised understanding of that period in history. You seem unaware of a huge range of contextual information which would have undoubtedly made you more circumspect and would have lead you to a much more nuanced position.


    I never expressed any personal admiration for Bobby Sands, so you need spell out nothing for me. I pointed out that you were abundantly obviously wrong in your assertion that the deaths of Bobby Sands and other hunger strikers "achieved nothing of lasting significance". For good or for ill they left an indelible imprint on this country's politics and culture. Millions of Irish people were deeply influenced by the hunger strikers, either having great sympathy for them or being deeply troubled by them and the broadest possible range of reactions beyond and between. The whole affair helped shape a great deal of Irish politics for many years, and clearly still does in form of historical white noise.

    Beyond that I asked you questions you did not answer because you clearly don't have the depth of knowledge to do so.
     
    #14 D_Tim McGnaw, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  15. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    ..
     
    #15 Victoria, Sep 16, 2010
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  16. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    So, the IRA is going to go after banks and bankers eh?

    I say let 'em have at it, but only if they promise to throw in politicians and lawyers too.




    not really.
     
  17. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    But I didn't express an opinion.



    I never suggested that they should and stop pretending that I agree with the aims or tactics of the IRA or the hunger strikers, I am pointing out that there is actually a range of interpretations of those aims and tactics which make your own rather facile conclusions seem ill judged.


    That's apropos of nothing, I don't suggest the aims of the IRA make sense to you or to me, but they do make a lot of sense to some people and in the past made sense to a lot of people. Besides, the whole point of their position (and indeed of a significant number of moderate Republicans and Nationalists on both sides of the border) is that "Northern Ireland" shouldn't really exist and only does so because the British forced partition on this country. I don't claim this view is any more valid than any other I simply point out that it is a view which is widely held, whatever the Good Friday agreement may say.

    There are of course many who do not hold this view or hold no view at all.



    I never said he was revered and never claimed that this reverence was unreserved that is your invention. I pointed out that he deeply effected many people, I was unspecific as to the nature of that effect.

    You seem to be painting me as an apologist for the IRA I suggest you stop listening to your internal dialogue for a second a reread what I've actually written. I'm pointing out to you that the picture is far more complicated and diverse than you seem to think, and that there are a variety of ways in which the actions and beliefs of the hunger strikers can be and are viewed in this country and in Northern Ireland. To simply dismiss this by claiming the hunger strikers achieved nothing of lasting significance (be those achievements positive or negative in nature) is blatantly false and bears being contradicted.

    However the "few northern irish"[sic] friends of yours could hardly deny that a significant minority of people in Northern Ireland, and indeed in Ireland too do hold Bobby Sands in great respect. Just as many despise him and many have a variety of mixed feelings about him, and that many also have little or no feeling about or opinion on him whatsoever.
     
    #17 D_Tim McGnaw, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  18. jeremy_curio

    jeremy_curio New Member

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    Sad.

    Career terrorists who've outlived their usefulness and wannabes trying to stir up tension.

    @ hilaire you're a bit nebulous .
    On one hand you seem to be saying you disagree with the ira and their various killing sprees but on the other it seems like you're saying if a fringe group of people in this case the IRA have an opinion rejected by the masses and unlikely to win support through democratic avenues it's ok for them to lash out and terrorise ?

    Injuring and blowing people up isn't gonna endear them to your politics or inspire them to come around to your way of thinking mmmmmkay - that should be rule one of how to make friends and influence people if it isn't already ;p
     
    #18 jeremy_curio, Sep 17, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  19. ManlyBanisters

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    Great bollocking fuck wagons! Does nobody actually read anything anyone else writes in this God-foresaken corner of LPSG?

    jeremy - please quote the passage where hilaire says, or seems to say, "it's ok for [the Real IRA] to lash out and terrorise".
     
  20. Rammajamma771

    Rammajamma771 New Member

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    "military, political and economic targets" ... This sounds like open warfare. They should change their name from IRA to ICT - Irish Catholic Terrorists. The Queen's government should declare war on IRA and annihilate them.
     
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