"Rebuilding New Orleans Doesnt Make Sense"

[DC_DEEP]

Originally posted by hippyscum+Sep 1 2005, 07:17 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hippyscum &#064; Sep 1 2005, 07:17 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Rikter8@Sep 1 2005, 10:58 PM
We have 3 more years of this crooked S.O.B.

[post=339943]Quoted post[/post]​

But once he gets kicked out, that&#39;s him gone forever. Let&#39;s all keep our schedules clear for for December 2008 :toast:

[post=339950]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
Uh, right... but you don&#39;t think "the other dubya" (think pork ads, pork barrel) named jeb might not want to carry on the fambly tradition? Or is his situation in Florida just too sweet?

Unfortunately, the group that should be doing the most relief work in NOLA and the Mississippi gulf coast is our National Guard units. Ooops, they are on the other side of the world, aren&#39;t they? National Guard is designed to work here, on the continental US. For deployment, it should first be regular military, then reserve military. The National Guard should NEVER be deployed overseas. Just my 2 fils worth.

 

[Sabln7]

Originally posted by MisterMark+Sep 2 2005, 12:57 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MisterMark &#064; Sep 2 2005, 12:57 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-nlatimer@Sep 1 2005, 05:21 PM
That&#39;s because there really is no such thing as price gouging, there is only the market, supply, demand and what people are willing to pay.

[post=339963]Quoted post[/post]​

I agree with this.

Regarding the rebuilding of New Orleans, does technology exist that would be able to hold the water back if another hurricane of this magnitude struck the area? (poor sentence structure, I know)

[post=339972]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

I imagine that Halliburton will come up with a plan, and they will get the contract without a bid. Truth is, the technology does exist, but Bush vetoed the spending for the technology as not needed. Poor thinking. It will cost much more to clean up and rebuild the area than the technology would have cost. And we still won&#39;t have the problem solved without spending the additional money. Oh well, if it turns out to be good for Halliburton, it will be good for all of us, right?

 

[BruceSter]

From a pure technical point of view it&#39;s nonsense to rebuild New Orleans in exactly the same way it was built before. The next hurricane of this category would threaten to cause the same structural damage and cause the same sequence of events in its aftermath, confronting us with exactly the same atrocities as we are facing them now. That&#39;s why it&#39;d only make sense to use the flooded land as natural buffer for future floodings, and build the new city of New Orleans around it, without the danger of trapping the water in a basin and flooding the city again. Since the area that is flooded now will most probably completely fall to debatement and have to be built anew from the scratch, common sense would suggest to spend the money used for this process to invest it into re-building in a safer place.

Of course it&#39;d also be possible to rebuild NO in the area it claimed before the flooding, but then more elaborate counter-flood measurements would be required, including stronger dams, backup pumps and drains to dump the water, which would cause higher costs than the abovementioned possibility.

This might be a tough way of deciding, and it doesn&#39;t consider all the emotional binding that exist between the old NO and its inhabitants, but from a technical point of view it&#39;d make far more sense.

Bruce

 

[Freddie53]

MY TWO CENTS WORTH:

1. First I am a Christian and I hold George Bush personally responsible for the lack of federal response to save lives in New Orleans. Freddie, the one that Jana refers to has being loving and has she has said so many kind things about my gentleness is pissed, highly pissed. The hurricane couldn&#39;t have been avoided. The federal government not being able or not reponding properly to the disaster is an error that in inexcuable. And this shit from the religious right, all of it is what it is. You can&#39;t make chicken salad out of chicken shit, which is what some of them are trying to do.

But this morning the REPUBLICAN elected officials were all around Bush telling what a WONDERFUL job all the federal agencies have done. And what a wonderful leader Bush is.

Doesn&#39;t matter how much salad dressing, lettuce, tomatoes and bacon bits you mix in. If it was chicken shit to start with it still will be chicken shit salad.

2. BRING THE TROOPS HOME FROM IRAQ&#33;&#33;&#33; We have no army here. One general said that he couldn&#39;t send in the army on Tuesday morning because HE HAD NO ARMY&#33;&#33;&#33; Our national guard is slowly being activated and eventually will do a great job. Unforunately thousands may be dead before the National Guard is fully funcrtional. WE HAVE FOUND the WEAPON of MASS DESTRUCTION -Katrina. She is here, not there.

3. If the terrorists in Iraq are so terrible, bomb the hell out of them. They won&#39;t be a problem anymore. Notice I said terrorists, not civilians.

4. IT IS A NATIONAL DISGRACE THAT A NATION WITH OUR RESOURCES HAS ALLOWED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO STAND AND SIT NOW GOING ON FOUR DAYS WITH NO FOOD OR WATER BUT THE PEOPLE ARE ASSESSABLE TO RESCUE UNITS.

5. The commercial busses should be nationalized by the government and used to transport the thousands stranded in the destroyed city of New Orleans to places where they can be fed and sheltered.

6. IMPEACH GEORGE BUSH&#33; He was giving policy speaches on IRAQ on Monday and Tuesday and didn&#39;t even really focuss on this problem until today. He has failed miserable as a leader in this crises, failed to take action to take care of hundreds of lives. He failed to declare martial law, nationalize what ever civilian resources necessary to go and take over New Orleans and restore order and see people&#39;s basic needs including medical needs were taken care of. George Bush failed at being a moral leader providing comfort and encouragement in this tragedy.

They tried to impeach Clinton because he let a young lady put his penis in her mouth and he tried to hide that from Hillary. George Bush&#39;s gross incompentence has allowed possibly thousands to die in this national tragedy. Deaths that could have been avoided.

7. Bush and his Republicans cut funding to repair the levees in New Orleans. We needed to cut funds because of the TAX CUT and also spend it in IRAQ&#33; I hold Bush responsible for the levee breaks and all the deaths from it.

8. Either MOVE the financial, retail and residential parts of New Orleans to higher ground OR build a Hoover Dam quality Dam, not levee, that will withstand a strong category 5 hurricane and a HUGE flood upstream in the Mississippi River system.
I don&#39;t have the skills to make that decision. I bet though if I were in charge I could find out who can and use their advice&#33;

But no. Mark my word. We will build a half ass levee and have this happen all over again.

9. There is no way to move the industrial areas and the port of New Orleans. IT is the largest port in the United States. We can&#39;t just move the people to new locations and find jobs for them. New Orleans is the key to much of the nation&#39;s economic fabric and that is almost impossible to be changed.

10. Build a mansion fit for a King for George Bush in Iraq. Since he cares more about them than he does his own citizens, let him live OVER THERE.

 

[Sabln7]

Originally posted by Freddie53@Sep 2 2005, 05:40 PM
MY TWO CENTS WORTH:

1. First I am a Christian and I hold George Bush personally responsible for the lack of federal response to save lives in New Orleans. Freddie, the one that Jana refers to has being loving and has she has said so many kind things about my gentleness is pissed, highly pissed. The hurricane couldn&#39;t have been avoided. The federal government not being able or not reponding properly to the disaster is an error that in inexcuable. And this shit from the religious right, all of it is what it is. You can&#39;t make chicken salad out of chicken shit, which is what some of them are trying to do.

But this morning the REPUBLICAN elected officials were all around Bush telling what a WONDERFUL job all the federal agencies have done. And what a wonderful leader Bush is.

Doesn&#39;t matter how much salad dressing, lettuce, tomatoes and bacon bits you mix in. If it was chicken shit to start with it still will be chicken shit salad.

2. BRING THE TROOPS HOME FROM IRAQ&#33;&#33;&#33; We have no army here. One general said that he couldn&#39;t send in the army on Tuesday morning because HE HAD NO ARMY&#33;&#33;&#33; Our national guard is slowly being activated and eventually will do a great job. Unforunately thousands may be dead before the National Guard is fully funcrtional. WE HAVE FOUND the WEAPON of MASS DESTRUCTION -Katrina. She is here, not there.

3. If the terrorists in Iraq are so terrible, bomb the hell out of them. They won&#39;t be a problem anymore. Notice I said terrorists, not civilians.

4. IT IS A NATIONAL DISGRACE THAT A NATION WITH OUR RESOURCES HAS ALLOWED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO STAND AND SIT NOW GOING ON FOUR DAYS WITH NO FOOD OR WATER BUT THE PEOPLE ARE ASSESSABLE TO RESCUE UNITS.

5. The commercial busses should be nationalized by the government and used to transport the thousands stranded in the destroyed city of New Orleans to places where they can be fed and sheltered.

6. IMPEACH GEORGE BUSH&#33; He was giving policy speaches on IRAQ on Monday and Tuesday and didn&#39;t even really focuss on this problem until today. He has failed miserable as a leader in this crises, failed to take action to take care of hundreds of lives. He failed to declare martial law, nationalize what ever civilian resources necessary to go and take over New Orleans and restore order and see people&#39;s basic needs including medical needs were taken care of. George Bush failed at being a moral leader providing comfort and encouragement in this tragedy.

They tried to impeach Clinton because he let a young lady put his penis in her mouth and he tried to hide that from Hillary. George Bush&#39;s gross incompentence has allowed possibly thousands to die in this national tragedy. Deaths that could have been avoided.

7. Bush and his Republicans cut funding to repair the levees in New Orleans. We needed to cut funds because of the TAX CUT and also spend it in IRAQ&#33; I hold Bush responsible for the levee breaks and all the deaths from it.

8. Either MOVE the financial, retail and residential parts of New Orleans to higher ground OR build a Hoover Dam quality Dam, not levee, that will withstand a strong category 5 hurricane and a HUGE flood upstream in the Mississippi River system.
I don&#39;t have the skills to make that decision. I bet though if I were in charge I could find out who can and use their advice&#33;

But no. Mark my word. We will build a half ass levee and have this happen all over again.

9. There is no way to move the industrial areas and the port of New Orleans. IT is the largest port in the United States. We can&#39;t just move the people to new locations and find jobs for them. New Orleans is the key to much of the nation&#39;s economic fabric and that is almost impossible to be changed.

10. Build a mansion fit for a King for George Bush in Iraq. Since he cares more about them than he does his own citizens, let him live OVER THERE.

[post=340170]Quoted post[/post]​

Amen&#33; I am a Christian too, and I am sick of the political right couching everything they do in scripture. I almost believe that George Bush is the anti-Christ. Read Revelations and see if you don&#39;t agree. Would Bush have reacted more quickly if the victims had been wealthy, white oil men in Houston?

 

[Philly05]

Originally posted by Freddie53@Sep 2 2005, 05:40 PM
MY TWO CENTS WORTH:

1. First I am a Christian and I hold George Bush personally responsible for the lack of federal response to save lives in New Orleans. Freddie, the one that Jana refers to has being loving and has she has said so many kind things about my gentleness is pissed, highly pissed. The hurricane couldn&#39;t have been avoided. The federal government not being able or not reponding properly to the disaster is an error that in inexcuable. And this shit from the religious right, all of it is what it is. You can&#39;t make chicken salad out of chicken shit, which is what some of them are trying to do.

But this morning the REPUBLICAN elected officials were all around Bush telling what a WONDERFUL job all the federal agencies have done. And what a wonderful leader Bush is.

Doesn&#39;t matter how much salad dressing, lettuce, tomatoes and bacon bits you mix in. If it was chicken shit to start with it still will be chicken shit salad.

>> We arent seeing any looting in MS where there are Republican leadership, perhaps NO needs a Giuliani, he made sure there was no chaos following 9/11.

2. BRING THE TROOPS HOME FROM IRAQ&#33;&#33;&#33; We have no army here. One general said that he couldn&#39;t send in the army on Tuesday morning because HE HAD NO ARMY&#33;&#33;&#33; Our national guard is slowly being activated and eventually will do a great job. Unforunately thousands may be dead before the National Guard is fully funcrtional. WE HAVE FOUND the WEAPON of MASS DESTRUCTION -Katrina. She is here, not there.

>>Only 10% of our forces are in Iraq

3. If the terrorists in Iraq are so terrible, bomb the hell out of them. They won&#39;t be a problem anymore. Notice I said terrorists, not civilians.

>>I agree, Im for massive retaliation, however innocents always are harmed during times of war, especially when our enemy hides among civilians.

4. IT IS A NATIONAL DISGRACE THAT A NATION WITH OUR RESOURCES HAS ALLOWED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO STAND AND SIT NOW GOING ON FOUR DAYS WITH NO FOOD OR WATER BUT THE PEOPLE ARE ASSESSABLE TO RESCUE UNITS.

>> What do you expect when there are thousands roaming through NO attacking FEMA workers and hospitals helping those that need it. Who do you expect wants to jeopardize their lives to drop off food.

5. The commercial busses should be nationalized by the government and used to transport the thousands stranded in the destroyed city of New Orleans to places where they can be fed and sheltered.

>> How about the lot in New Orleans that already has hundreds of busses parked there? The city of New Orleans has not acknowledged that these are even there but they could have been brought in by the local government long before the feds could make it in town.

6. IMPEACH GEORGE BUSH&#33; He was giving policy speaches on IRAQ on Monday and Tuesday and didn&#39;t even really focuss on this problem until today. He has failed miserable as a leader in this crises, failed to take action to take care of hundreds of lives. He failed to declare martial law, nationalize what ever civilian resources necessary to go and take over New Orleans and restore order and see people&#39;s basic needs including medical needs were taken care of. George Bush failed at being a moral leader providing comfort and encouragement in this tragedy.

They tried to impeach Clinton because he let a young lady put his penis in her mouth and he tried to hide that from Hillary. George Bush&#39;s gross incompentence has allowed possibly thousands to die in this national tragedy. Deaths that could have been avoided.

>>The governor of LA should have declared martial law, why must Bush wipe everyone&#39;s ass? Local and state politicians have sat on their ass since the hurricane hit.

7. Bush and his Republicans cut funding to repair the levees in New Orleans. We needed to cut funds because of the TAX CUT and also spend it in IRAQ&#33; I hold Bush responsible for the levee breaks and all the deaths from it.

>>O really, again, could have resorted back to local or state funding. I hold the mayor responsible for the deaths.

8. Either MOVE the financial, retail and residential parts of New Orleans to higher ground OR build a Hoover Dam quality Dam, not levee, that will withstand a strong category 5 hurricane and a HUGE flood upstream in the Mississippi River system.
I don&#39;t have the skills to make that decision. I bet though if I were in charge I could find out who can and use their advice&#33;

But no. Mark my word. We will build a half ass levee and have this happen all over again.

>> I agree
9. There is no way to move the industrial areas and the port of New Orleans. IT is the largest port in the United States. We can&#39;t just move the people to new locations and find jobs for them. New Orleans is the key to much of the nation&#39;s economic fabric and that is almost impossible to be changed.

>> However we can move the residential lots to different areas.
10. Build a mansion fit for a King for George Bush in Iraq. Since he cares more about them than he does his own citizens, let him live OVER THERE.

>>Is that you Michael Moore?

[post=340170]Quoted post[/post]​

 

[jay_too]

News reports have said that the levee protection systems were designed to withstand a Category 3 storm. Because there is so much overdesign in any project, it was hoped that the system would withstand a Category 4 or perhaps a Category 5 storm. I heard a couple of engineers say that Category 5 designs were possible and this might be the time to begin planning and design. The hurricane, flooding, ... whatever has removed acres of buildings and houses; land acquisition for a gigantic public works project surely would be much easier NOW than in the past.

One way to look at the problem is to realize that &#036;100 billion is more than enough to move most mountains. Now I wonder where we could find a spare &#036;100 billion? Oh, I know...let&#39;s increase taxes on the middle and lower economic classes. They would probably waste this money on beer, bibles, and porn. Any other ideas?

jay

 

[GottaBigOne]

George Bush would be a good candidate for the anti-christ, and he comes from texas, which is east of wherever John the Divine wrote that shit... if you go through China.

 

[Ralexx]

Most interesting opinions.
I was certainly wrong : I imagined that NO&#39;s main tourist attraction - "that stuff" which happens to be the old centre, the historical crux, besides being the justification of the city&#39;s name - Le Carré, the French quarter, does (or did) matter. I have now to presume that it will be demolished.
" - Ya know... opcorn: It&#39;s old &#39;n&#39; rusty. Looks like s*it. opcorn: Who cares ? opcorn: Why should our city be beautiful ? :shrug: Geez, get real, man ... opcorn: opcorn: &#33;"

"New Katrina" sounds all right... If the location will be changed, a new city-name will be needed. And because one seems to chose 2005 as "Year 0"...

 

[Sabln7]

Originally posted by Ralexx@Sep 2 2005, 08:21 PM
Most interesting opinions.
I was certainly wrong : I imagined that NO&#39;s main tourist attraction - "that stuff" which happens to be the old centre, the historical crux, besides being the justification of the city&#39;s name - Le Carré, the French quarter, does (or did) matter. I have now to presume that it will be demolished.
" - Ya know... opcorn: It&#39;s old &#39;n&#39; rusty. Looks like s*it. opcorn: Who cares ? opcorn: Why should our city be beautiful ? :shrug: Geez, get real, man ... opcorn: opcorn: &#33;"

"New Katrina" sounds all right... If the location will be changed, a new city-name will be needed. And because one seems to chose 2005 as "Year 0"...

[post=340215]Quoted post[/post]​

And next the far right will decide to get rid of old people who require technology to keep them alive....

 

[zaphod]

Most of the actual port facilities in the New Orleans area are on the river between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, not in the downtown area. I heard today that the corps of engineers will have the river clear for navigation very soon. I don&#39;t think the actual port facilities, and industrial areas got damaged too much.
I think that the french quartar will be re-built and restored, that is what quite a bit of New Orleans economy depends on. I don&#39;t think that they will re-build the poor neiborhoods, which is most of the outlying city. At least they will not be re-built as poor neighborhoods again. It will cost too much to replace those houses to collect low rent for them.

 

[dcwrestlefan]

I&#39;ve not read through all the posts here, so forgive me if its a repeat from another member.

Only a Republican could say something this fucking stupid. Its like saying "we should not rebuild Rome because its been damaged too much". New Orleans is a major city and a national treasure. Rich in history. One of the most fun cities in the country, in the midst of the bible thumping, boring, hick south. (I live in it too officially, so if this offends you, I don&#39;t care) There is no French Quarter or all night Jazz clubs etc in New York, San Francisco, Seattle or Dubuque. Its got problems. More now than other other has to bear. I predict it will return. There are too many people that love it. Its got my full support.

If Dennis Hastert thinks rebuilding New Orleans is too much expense and trouble, let him move to Baghdad. They don&#39;t have hurricanes there. And GW, don&#39;t take away the funds to make sure the levees are safe this time ok? Would he have done that if Dallas was protected by the same system.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Originally posted by jay_too@Sep 2 2005, 12:30 PM
News reports have said that the levee protection systems were designed to withstand a Category 3 storm. Because there is so much overdesign in any project, it was hoped that the system would withstand a Category 4 or perhaps a Category 5 storm. I heard a couple of engineers say that Category 5 designs were possible and this might be the time to begin planning and design. The hurricane, flooding, ... whatever has removed acres of buildings and houses; land acquisition for a gigantic public works project surely would be much easier NOW than in the past.

[post=340200]Quoted post[/post]​

Based on this exhaustive study from a few years ago, a lot of people knew that even a Category 3 was iffy:

http://www.nola.com/printer/printer.ssf?/washingaway/

The predictions made a long time ago are downright eerie. Breeched levies, inadequate evacuations, pump failures, 100,000 people stranded on their rooftops. Just about the only thing wasn&#39;t anticipated was the looting. The scale of incompetence at the local, state, and federal levels is breathtaking.

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by dcwrestlefan@Sep 3 2005, 06:02 AM
There is no French Quarter or all night Jazz clubs etc in New York, San Francisco, Seattle or Dubuque.

[post=340389]Quoted post[/post]​

without wishing to be pedantic, I know for a fact that there is at least one all-night jazz club in NYC, cos I worked there once

 

[BruceSter]

In response to Freddie53&#39;s posting, and the subsequential replies -

Hi there,

what are we doing here? Are we discussing the rebuild of New Orleans from technical, or political point of views? If we are slipping into political tirades here, I won&#39;t post any more, because personally I don&#39;t mind whether it&#39;s a Democrat, Republican or Marsian I&#39;m discussing this with.

The statement that "Rebuilding New Orleans doesn&#39;t make sense" is not so wrong, as I have stated in a post above.

Bruce

 

[jwc1978]

Originally posted by BruceSter@Sep 3 2005, 02:37 PM
In response to Freddie53&#39;s posting, and the subsequential replies -

Hi there,

what are we doing here? Are we discussing the rebuild of New Orleans from technical, or political point of views? If we are slipping into political tirades here, I won&#39;t post any more, because personally I don&#39;t mind whether it&#39;s a Democrat, Republican or Marsian I&#39;m discussing this with.

The statement that "Rebuilding New Orleans doesn&#39;t make sense" is not so wrong, as I have stated in a post above.

Bruce

[post=340444]Quoted post[/post]​

All I have to say is that I don&#39;t think you can blame President Bush for this. Even if they had started when he was first elected, according to the Corps of Engineers, it would have been at least a 15 year project, it wouldn&#39;t have been finished in time.

Until recently, I lived down there almost my entire life. If you want to blame someone, blame whoever was govenor in Louisiana in 1969 and whoever was US President then also. They could have gotten the ball rolling after Camille tried to wipe us all off the face of the earth. They were warned then and they didn&#39;t listen.

As far as Dennis Hastert is concerned, he is a Illinois politician... a term synonymous with Jackass......

 

[jay_too]

Originally posted by BruceSter@Sep 2 2005, 04:52 PM
From a pure technical point of view it&#39;s nonsense to rebuild New Orleans in exactly the same way it was built before. The next hurricane of this category would threaten to cause the same structural damage and cause the same sequence of events in its aftermath, confronting us with exactly the same atrocities as we are facing them now. That&#39;s why it&#39;d only make sense to use the flooded land as natural buffer for future floodings, and build the new city of New Orleans around it, without the danger of trapping the water in a basin and flooding the city again.

[post=340161]Quoted post[/post]​

I don&#39;t think that any engineering company would recommend reproducing Nawlins as it was; they would like to rebuild with a redundant system of safeguards. The Corps of Engineers thought the design protected against Category 3 hurricanes; it is possible to design for Category 4 and 5 hurricanes. This is a question for engineering trade studies: "Does the increased protection justify the cost?" This is a political decision...not party politics but the allocation of scarce resources.

Before the disaster, undertaking the destruction of neighborhoods [particularly the low income areas] was not tenable. These were the areas that were destroyed by winds and water. Surely, if we can spend tens of billions on "improving" traffic flow in Boston, there is justification for rebuilding New Orleans.

On its founding, New Orleans was the first "hump" of ground above sea level that could take ocean going vessels. That was the reason that the site was selected. Today, the French Quarter is still about 3 feet above sea level.

Rebuilding only the port system might not be the complete solution. People like to live near where they work; so I doubt if the daily bussing of people 60 to 100 miles to the port system is tenable. While this is not the complete solution, a billion dollars can bring to NOLA a lot of fill dirt....&#036;10 billion a lot more.

It is time to review and redesign the system of levees that were built fifty years ago to minimize/prevent annual flooding which renewed the wetlands south of New Orleans....otherwise, we may lose NOLA to the sea.

jay

 

[Synergistic]

Originally posted by Sabln7@Sep 2 2005, 11:17 AM
It costs too much to rebuild our city destroyed by nature. But we can bomb and destroy Baghdad and Iraq and rebuild them....SOmething is wrong here.

[post=340148]Quoted post[/post]​

Thats because we&#39;re relatively sure we&#39;re not going to bomb it again.

But nature is definately going to take over New Orleans again and again at least until the next ice age.

 

[KinkGuy]

Originally posted by jwc1978@Sep 3 2005, 09:25 AM
All I have to say is that I don&#39;t think you can blame President Bush for this. Even if they had started when he was first elected, according to the Corps of Engineers, it would have been at least a 15 year project, it wouldn&#39;t have been finished in time.

[post=340454]Quoted post[/post]​

How do you NOT blame this administration? The levy system WAS being rebuilt and they WERE 7 years into the project...when bush cut the funding in 2001&#33; NO, Louisiana, The Army Corp of Engineers and the construction companies worked on for another year, without being paid, until the financial burden became too great. In another of my rants somewhere around here, I quoted the Corp of Engineers that flat out stated, the new system, had it been completed, might not have completely eliminated this disaster, but would have prevented much if not most of the flooding we have seen the last five days.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Originally posted by hippyscum+Sep 1 2005, 04:17 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hippyscum &#064; Sep 1 2005, 04:17 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Rikter8@Sep 1 2005, 10:58 PM
We have 3 more years of this crooked S.O.B.

[post=339943]Quoted post[/post]​

But once he gets kicked out, that&#39;s him gone forever. Let&#39;s all keep our schedules clear for for December 2008 :toast:

[post=339950]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

You know he doesn&#39;t leave office until January 2009, right?