Redefining Bisexual

B_deltaboy767

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Ive said it once and ill say it again. Bisexuals are and will always be confused about what they desire and want, its obvious in some of your postings, saying im BI but i cant have feelings for a guy only women, or i can only fuck women but only let guys blow me...WTF!!!! Bi's are selfish, they either want enjoyment without commitment with either sex, or they want commitment with only one sex and enjoyment and pleasure from both. In my experiances a true and REAL bisexual is perfectly able to have realtionship and fall in love with either sex, male/female. Most of the guys nowadays that call them self "BI" are nothing more that male whores, that cannot get sexual satisfaction from either sex, nor can they have any kind of emotional connection to both..
IMO, "BI's" are shelfish, confused men that want their cake and eat it too...
 

B_deltaboy767

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The following is excepted from several PM's I sent to Derbytom in a private discussion of this issue.
i share a portion of my own thoughts as I feel they are pertinent.


The point is that anyone capable of discerning that they are symbolizing reality and categorizing experience as simply a means to make quick assessments and guidelines, is also capable of understanding that those assessments are just rough guesses and always subject to refinement or rejection based upon reality.

Turn to any personals ads in any paper.... or go to any dating site...
What will you find?

People Labeling Themselves as to interests and preferences...

"men looking for men" "Women looking for men" "Man looking for couples"... the and specificity of the labeling is WHY these means of hooking up do so much better for those who are looking for a very specific person.

I have to maintain that any idea that labeling and stereotyping is "wrong" is simply a failure to understand how critical it is to how human beings think. We could no more stop it than we could stop dreaming.
Its how we are wired.

You might find out thru conversation that a guy dressed as a gangsta is really a sweetheart... and thus re-categorize HIM. That does not mean that being wary of guys dressed that way is invalid, overall, because guys who ARE dangerous DO dress that way specifically to warn others of their dangerousness.

Again... its a nice thought to imagine everyone is unique... but they are not... they are MOSTLY categorizable.
If not, advertising wouldn't work and movies would not find appreciative audiences.


You do not HAVE to label yourself as others do... but the way others label you DOES matter... because you have to come to grips with the fact that they do so...
And, unless you want to live entirely socially isolated from others, to a certain extent, you have to play along.

For example... if everyone thinks you are gay, but you are straight, then that tells you something about how YOU behave, because people are identifying you by what they observe. In such a case, this perception of you as gay may seriously get in the way of your finding a suitable mate, or even getting a date.

You have two choices... you can rail against the societal assumptions about masculinity and homosexuality and demand the entirety of humanity stop stereotyping. ( good luck)... or you can change your behavior to fit in with what people consider "straight"... in other words, figure out why folks think you're gay and change that.

We are not JUST individuals. We live in and utterly rely on a community of our fellows.

A man's standing in the community is no better than what people say about him behind his back. Its not necessarily fair... but it is absolutely true.


Your community DEFINES your standing within the community.... all you can do is hope to influence it thru your actions.

This is the way nature works... you can be an oddball, unique and special... But MOST females are attracted to a certain handful of traits... this is driven by biology, not their beliefs, so it is not going to change.

The more you chose to NOT fall into a known category, the slimmer you make your chances of finding everything, from work, to a circle of friends, to a mate.

You are free to do so... but then to rail against the fact that everyone else is finding mates, jobs, etc BECAUSE they understand that labeling is useful and they take advantage of it is spurious.

How about creating a label that others who are like you will be able to adopt?
that, or take a marginalized or dismissed label and re-define it.



The label of homosexuality has changed over the past century... and that because of the combined efforts of a huge GROUP of people, all of like mind, and like conduct, who strove over a generation to redefine the label... not to eliminate it. These people found each other in bars that were labels, and moved into communities that were labels, and adopted iconography that were labels.

The social response to homosexuality changed BECAUSE of effective brand labeling.


Again... for men who love women and still like to have recreational sex with guys... the BEST option would be to FIND each other and create a NEW label to define and identify themselves.

Back in the day, gay men used to stuff a red handkerchief in their back pocket to identify each other in a crowd.

Anyone who doesn't want to live their lives alone, who wants to share common interests and passions with their fellows, would do better by embracing labeling, rather than eschewing it.


In fact, It is thru the denial or rejection of a valid label that society manages to injure both individuals and groups… Not by labeling them... but by refusing to accept a label they desperately prefer or need.

For example, gay people desperately want access to the label of "married", and the societal recognition that confers...

It is the denial of that label that they protest.


and, in our case... the remnant of homophobic prejudices, coupled with the "all-or-nothing" attitude toward any homosexual tendencies that is embraced Both by the straight community and actively advocated by the gay community are what conspires to deny the full spectrum of bisexuality to be recognized and accepted.


It is not the label of bisexuality that is the problem... it is the fact that Both straight and gay communities express skepticism that such a thing exists...
The assumption that ALL 'bisexual' males are simply in denial of their total homosexuality.

That is not labeling.... its the rejection of a label as being valid.

In essence, it is by denying a group a label that you marginalize them, ignore them, and pressure them to try and be something they are not... Not by labeling them.
Any group can take a marginalized label and, like the gay community, re-define it as acceptable… it simply takes activism and visibility, and time.


So, again...
the mistake people make is in demonizing the idea of a label... rather than people's tendency to deny acceptance or recognition to those who do not fit in their particular label.

What all people seek is a word or other mental symbol with which to feel identification, thru which to find others like themselves.

It is tribal. it is built into our brains.
It is how we process our experience of the world and of ourselves.


Think of it as marketing.
You, as a product you are trying to sell to that demographic that seeks what you have to offer.
The Gay community has done a great job of building their brand.
Its time for those with wider sexual interests to build their brand.

Only then will people of mixed sexual repsonse have true community and belonging.
Yes we have built a great brand. But at least we TRUELY know what we want and like and desire, and we stick to it. Yall on the other hand have no idea of what you want, and really cant seem to figure it out, its either pleasure and no commitmen, or commitment and pleasure? If your able to have a commitment to either sex, then i applaude you. But the ones that can only have commitment to only one sex and just fool around with the other, is nothing more than a confused whore who can not get satisfaction from either.
 
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badger2395

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Ive said it once and ill say it again. Bisexuals are and will always be confused about what they desire and want, its obvious in some of your postings, saying im BI but i cant have feelings for a guy only women, or i can only fuck women but only let guys blow me...WTF!!!! Bi's are selfish, they either want enjoyment without commitment with either sex, or they want commitment with only one sex and enjoyment and pleasure from both. In my experiances a true and REAL bisexual is perfectly able to have realtionship and fall in love with either sex, male/female. Most of the guys nowadays that call them self "BI" are nothing more that male whores, that cannot get sexual satisfaction from either sex, nor can they have any kind of emotional connection to both..
IMO, "BI's" are shelfish, confused men that want their cake and eat it too...

I bet you appreciate it when people tell you that gay people can't exist, either. Why don't you stop trying to define what other people are? It's tiresome.
 

Smaccoms

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Ive said it once and ill say it again. Bisexuals are and will always be confused about what they desire and want, its obvious in some of your postings, saying im BI but i cant have feelings for a guy only women, or i can only fuck women but only let guys blow me...WTF!!!! Bi's are selfish, they either want enjoyment without commitment with either sex, or they want commitment with only one sex and enjoyment and pleasure from both. In my experiances a true and REAL bisexual is perfectly able to have realtionship and fall in love with either sex, male/female. Most of the guys nowadays that call them self "BI" are nothing more that male whores, that cannot get sexual satisfaction from either sex, nor can they have any kind of emotional connection to both..
IMO, "BI's" are shelfish, confused men that want their cake and eat it too...

First off, you have no right to tell someone else what their sexuality is. The most anyone can do is comment on it.

The issue I believe you are describing is how a significant amount of people abuse the concept of bisexuality. In other words, people use it to describe their sexuality despite the fact that they do not fit under the "lack of preference" definition of the bisexual. As a result, people insist they are lying to themselves and are in denial about being either straight or gay.

When attempting to categorize oneself sexually, three majorly categories exist for this purpose in today's society:

Heterosexuality: Preferring the "opposite" sex

Homosexuality: Preferring the "same" sex

Bisexuality: Lack of a preference for either

This gives three exact points along the spectrum of sexuality to choose from. My argument is that these three points do not in reality exist; they are instead philosophical models used to enhance our understanding of sexuality when we are either too young or naive to fully comprehend it on our own. Since the general populace exists around these points (not on them), they may use them in order to approximately describe their personal sexuality. This is commonly misconstrued with describing their PRECISE sexuality, rather than their APPROXIMATE sexuality.

The problem with all of this is that it is very complex and difficult to understand. Most prefer to simplify it into two separate and concrete categories. Any middle ground is far too "unstable" to this system to consider (apart from the "true bisexual", just as limiting a concept as the hetero- and homo-sexual). This is the origin of much anger over any bisexual who does not fit the given mold (lack of preference).

Under my personal philosophy, I see three subheadings under sexuality:

Sexual Orientation
Sexual Behavior
Sexual Acts

I have used this to help my own understanding of sexuality, and the implications of it.

One major point I have is that it is not wrong to not fit into the common system used in our society today. How you decide to make sense of your won personal sexuality and those of others is up to you. Whatever philosophy you use or develop for yourself, just make sure it makes sense to you. It builds confidence, and allows you to gradually move on with you life. Of course, I find any sort of philosophy needs to be altered over time in order to compensate for new experiences and research findings. This is the very nature of life really. I am hoping it becomes second-nature after a time, requiring more or less time and energy at different points...
 

B_deltaboy767

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I bet you appreciate it when people tell you that gay people can't exist, either. Why don't you stop trying to define what other people are? It's tiresome.
Thats just it, gay people do exist, granted some are shallow as hell, but we know what we want and know what we like, and we tend to stick to it, not be all kinds of confused and wanting sexual pleasure with both sexes cause we cant get satisfaction from one sex... We have Gay Pride, all over this country and most of the world, why? Because gays are proud to like other men, and are proud to ONLY have sex with men.. You dont see a Bi pride, or a pansexual pride or a meterosexual pride do ya? Nope..
 

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Thats just it, gay people do exist, granted some are shallow as hell, but we know what we want and know what we like, and we tend to stick to it, not be all kinds of confused and wanting sexual pleasure with both sexes cause we cant get satisfaction from one sex... We have Gay Pride, all over this country and most of the world, why? Because gays are proud to like other men, and are proud to ONLY have sex with men.. You dont see a Bi pride, or a pansexual pride or a meterosexual pride do ya? Nope..

DeltaBoy, I think I can understand what maybe upsets you about what some bi people have been expressing on this thread. For guys like you who are very certain and clear about their sexuality, some bisexuals come off as "confused" or "conflicted". As someone who has been working on these issues in my life, I know how hard it is for me to define myself. For me it's a process and I admit I'm not that far along the path. I personally don't feel as if it's not my ability to acknowledge my sexuality but a more subtle internal state. I've had gay friends be hard on me for not "coming out" in one way or another. It's not that I am fearful. It's that I really am not clear about these feelings. I would just ask that you have some compassion for guys like me who are doing our best. Thanks. :smile:
 

OCMuscleJock

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Thats just it, gay people do exist, granted some are shallow as hell, but we know what we want and know what we like, and we tend to stick to it, not be all kinds of confused and wanting sexual pleasure with both sexes cause we cant get satisfaction from one sex... We have Gay Pride, all over this country and most of the world, why? Because gays are proud to like other men, and are proud to ONLY have sex with men.. You dont see a Bi pride, or a pansexual pride or a meterosexual pride do ya? Nope..

Most prides are LBGT *Lesbian / Bisexual / Gay / Transgendered. I've been in a relationship with a man for 14 yrs *the end of next month* and I still am attracted to women. To me it's all about who you have the chemistry with, not about the body it's in. When It comes to relationships the body is less important to the heart and mind it is attached too. ALL relationships die down in the sex department and what you're left with is a companion ... the gender of that companion does not matter if you love the person. IMO, if you love a person just for the sex, then you are NOT in love. That would fall under the lust catagory. Carnal desires cover the gambit for many and most people. To say someone cannot desire more than one style of sexual stimulation is wrong. *note I said desire, and not act upon. So please do not think I'm referring to pedofiles or other sex crimes.* (lots of people tend to go there when topics like this arise)
 
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B_deltaboy767

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DeltaBoy, I think I can understand what maybe upsets you about what some bi people have been expressing on this thread. For guys like you who are very certain and clear about their sexuality, some bisexuals come off as "confused" or "conflicted". As someone who has been working on these issues in my life, I know how hard it is for me to define myself. For me it's a process and I admit I'm not that far along the path. I personally don't feel as if it's not my ability to acknowledge my sexuality but a more subtle internal state. I've had gay friends be hard on me for not "coming out" in one way or another. It's not that I am fearful. It's that I really am not clear about these feelings. I would just ask that you have some compassion for guys like me who are doing our best. Thanks. :smile:
Finally some one who "get it".. :). I have compassion for guys like you that admit to having difficulty comming to terms with their sexuality, or as you stated, not clear what these feelings are. I dont know how old you are, but I will tell you that as you grow older your feelings will be clear. I can totally see from your post to me that you are indeed trying your best, and please dont think im a total Bitch, I do have compassion. Btw, if you need to talk or anything, feel free to PM me, I can be a very good listener, and advice giver.
 

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I've had to clarify my sexual preferences several times and some people argue with me on what I am or feel. Which is silly, only I know what I like and don't like.

So, should we re-label what guys like me ...like? IE: I don't want to date guys - zero interest. I date, hold hands, kiss, fuck and fall in love with females. Period. With guys, I want to get naked, do some oral, massage, body contact, jack and basically just 'get off' to each other's 'maleness' (oh, and no anal). That's it.

In the past, I've said I'm 'bi', but that doesn't seem to actually fit who I am apparently. Any others out there like me? Or ideas on what the category would be?


Exactly the same as you.
The best way to handle that would be to say, "fuck labels". That's what the Greeks or Romans did before the advent of christianity.
But the human being of our time has to categorize things, that's how its mind works. The sense of belonging, which allows to identify the ones that are different. Etc.

So if labels are to be used, I found a social group on LPSG labeled : "straight guys who love cock"
However people may frown on it as an oxymoron, I think that exists, and we both are one of them.
If people cannot have a mind open enough for this concept, their loss. Categorize, ok let's do it, but only three categories, now that's really too narrow for all mankind to fit in. And to think that some straight or gay people consider the bisexuals to be gays to cowardly to admit it...
 

gacody1062

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Most prides are LBGT *Lesbian / Bisexual / Gay / Transgendered. I've been in a relationship with a man for 14 yrs *the end of next month* and I still am attracted to women. To me it's all about who you have the chemistry with, not about the body it's in. When It comes to relationships the body is less important to the heart and mind it is attached too. ALL relationships die down in the sex department and what you're left with is a companion ... the gender of that companion does not matter if you love the person. IMO, if you love a person just for the sex, then you are NOT in love. That would fall under the lust catagory. Carnal desires cover the gambit for many and most people. To say someone cannot desire more than one style of sexual stimulation is wrong. *note I said desire, and not act upon. So please do not think I'm referring to pedofiles or other sex crimes.* (lots of people tend to go there when topics like this arise)


very well stated, damn muscles and a brain, you go boy.
 

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Exactly the same as you.
The best way to handle that would be to say, "fuck labels". That's what the Greeks or Romans did before the advent of christianity.
But the human being of our time has to categorize things, that's how its mind works. The sense of belonging, which allows to identify the ones that are different. Etc.

So if labels are to be used, I found a social group on LPSG labeled : "straight guys who love cock"
However people may frown on it as an oxymoron, I think that exists, and we both are one of them.
If people cannot have a mind open enough for this concept, their loss. Categorize, ok let's do it, but only three categories, now that's really too narrow for all mankind to fit in. And to think that some straight or gay people consider the bisexuals to be gays to cowardly to admit it...

I commented on someone's (you perhaps) claim that the Ancient Greeks and Romans had no sexual labels; they did. They were certainly more liberal in their sexual views, but they still had limitations. I still love them; I would love to have been able to have an experience such as their lifestyle. I suppose a lot of us would though.
Like you said, categorizing is programed into our DNA. In the ancient past, cavemen used it as a tool to help them survive. It has persisted all these years, and can be seen very strongly in today's system for sexuality (bleh!)
Honestly, I would love to get my masters in Sexology just out of pure interest. I need to find a way to support myself first though (I'm about to get my undergraduate degree in Kinesiology--AND I'VE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO AAAHHHHH!!)
 

gacody1062

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Exactly the same as you.
The best way to handle that would be to say, "fuck labels". That's what the Greeks or Romans did before the advent of christianity.
But the human being of our time has to categorize things, that's how its mind works. The sense of belonging, which allows to identify the ones that are different. Etc.

So if labels are to be used, I found a social group on LPSG labeled : "straight guys who love cock"
However people may frown on it as an oxymoron, I think that exists, and we both are one of them.
If people cannot have a mind open enough for this concept, their loss. Categorize, ok let's do it, but only three categories, now that's really too narrow for all mankind to fit in. And to think that some straight or gay people consider the bisexuals to be gays to cowardly to admit it...

i truly believe that you can be bisexual, sex is sex no matter what gender it is. now love is when the heart gets involved and then you have to decide whether you are gay or straight.
 

D_Doe_Ray_Mi

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Devon,
I'm str8 / bi-curious and describe my sexual preferences very similarly to yours. I love women, love pussy but love my friendships that are totally non-sexual with many male friends. I also have friendships with some men, several married with families who share my interest in the bonding experience of hanging out naked, JO together, frot, and exploring possible oral pleasuring. Leaning towards bi but absolutely no interest in any anal encounter. To Hell with labels, just be who you are, be happy, be respectful and responsible and enjoy your life!
 
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Phil Ayesho

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Thats just it, gay people do exist, granted some are shallow as hell, but we know what we want and know what we like, and we tend to stick to it, not be all kinds of confused and wanting sexual pleasure with both sexes cause we cant get satisfaction from one sex... We have Gay Pride, all over this country and most of the world, why? Because gays are proud to like other men, and are proud to ONLY have sex with men.. You dont see a Bi pride, or a pansexual pride or a meterosexual pride do ya? Nope..

Typical.

You are no less ignorant and biased than the morons who call being gay a "choice"...
You have an assumed conclusion, based upon your own limited experience, and completely disregard the experience of others, or re-define their experience as being some variant of your own.


Sorry... the actual evidence is quite conclusive. MOST men are bisexual to some degree. And as someone who is 50 and has had these feelings for as long as I have had sexual feelings, I consider your comments about how somebody who is "bi" will become clearer as they grow older to be foolish and myopic.

My feelings are absolutely clear. I form love relationships with women, but fully appreciate the erotic appeal of both sexes. I have enjoyed, with great relish, sex with other males... ranging from the mere voyeuristic to the kinkiest... and I have enjoyed the same wide range of sexual experience with women. I have had sex with both at once... and the only notable difference between my enjoyment of either was that I was more concerned with the girls' affection, with her emotional state, and with the guy, more objectifyingly fixated on his cock.

I am not a guy who will simply fuck anything... as my experiences with men have mainly featured me as being the one getting fucked, or doing the sucking. And yet I enjoy just as heartily being the one doing the fucking when it comes to sex with women.


Really... It is not a matter of being less than completely satisfied with either, nor with both.
I have been completely sexually satisfied by both men and women.
and I am definitively more emotionally satisfied with women.

The fact that I prefer to spend my time with women, that I prefer to cuddle with and invest my life with a woman, has had no effect of diminishing, over the decades, the pleasure I get from contemplating sex with men, or from viewing gay porn ( alongside heterosexual porn)...
I no longer indulge in sex with men because I am faithful to my mate... the exact same reason I do not pursue sex with women Other than my mate.

And, if her fantasy were to have a threeway with another guy, I would be willing to try it... only to the extent that it did not impair our primary relationship.

In addition... I have found that I can just as easily be the dominator as the dominated, that I can thoroughly enjoy BDSM, watersports, and just about any other kind of kinky sexual practice... the only necessary feature being that my partner find it sexually exciting.


In short, I do not think of myself as being either heterosexual nor homosexual... but as being simply sexual.

I have always been this way... and I will always be this way.
I am not living in denial. Not closeted, not passing, and not mistaken.

The reason there are no bisexual pride marches is the same reason there USED to be no gay pride marches...
Because of the intransigent and prejudiced idiocy of folks like you who claim that there is no such thing or deny the validity of our stated feelings.

Oh, and the LGBT movement? the B is for Bisexual.
 
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Remington

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i truly believe that you can be bisexual, sex is sex no matter what gender it is. now love is when the heart gets involved and then you have to decide whether you are gay or straight.

I disagree.

A man can fall in love with/have a monogamous relationship a woman, yet still be sexually attracted to men. Thus being "bisexual".

There is no "need" to choose a side. Regardless of if a person is in a relationship, or not.

Besides, it's quite hard, if not impossible to "lose" or change one's sexuality.
 
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zalder

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I commented on someone's (you perhaps) claim that the Ancient Greeks and Romans had no sexual labels; they did. They were certainly more liberal in their sexual views, but they still had limitations. I still love them; I would love to have been able to have an experience such as their lifestyle. I suppose a lot of us would though.
Like you said, categorizing is programed into our DNA. In the ancient past, cavemen used it as a tool to help them survive. It has persisted all these years, and can be seen very strongly in today's system for sexuality (bleh!)
Honestly, I would love to get my masters in Sexology just out of pure interest. I need to find a way to support myself first though (I'm about to get my undergraduate degree in Kinesiology--AND I'VE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO AAAHHHHH!!)

On the Romans and Greeks, I'm just repeating what I heard. I don't have a degree on that particular matter. In the commentary of the Rome TV Show, it is said that they were very open and perceived this in a different way: the idea was less what gender you had sex with and more were you dominant or submissive.
Dominant was respectable when with men or women alike, while submissive was not.

Back to the subject, bi-curious might be a more common used term for the straight guys who love cock.
The premise here is that you can have sex without any emotional aspect.
After that, the basis is to know if the category defines who you can have sex with or who you could share a strong emotional link with (i.e. fall in love).


I define myself as straight because I think it's the latter, and I could not fall in love with a guy.
 

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Have people here been bisexual for a part of their lives, where there was some attraction to both sexes, and possible sex with both sexes as well, and then once you've fallen in love, decided that you were no longer bisexual? Is sexual attraction just a switch you can turn on and off and "decide" to change? I don't think changing sexuality is very easy, if possible at all.

OCMuscleJock, I admire your ability to state what you feel as well as what you think. Most people cannot do both on this topic.

I enjoyed having sex with both men and women in my early 20's, and I did label myself as bisexual. But once I fell in love with a man, I recognized that my true disposition was to be sexual with men. I still have not lost my ability to find a woman sexually attractive however. I don't think I need to change that.

Have any of you read any part of Alfred Kinsey's famous studies about human sexuality?