Redistribution of wealth?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by flame boy, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. flame boy

    flame boy Account Disabled

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    I hope this doesnt make me seem awfully dumb and I am also hoping folks won't just criticise me for asking but I am curious to learn more. Can someone explain just why Redistribution of wealth is a bad thing?
     
  2. Gl3nn

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    It's not a bad thing, but the people that have made a lot of money just don't want to give their money away. Which I understand completely. They've worked for it, just like everyone. But I also think we should think about the less fortunate.
     
  3. longshlong7

    longshlong7 New Member

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    it can be considered a bad thing because people who have worked so hard to become rich lose some money. by distributing money and giving money to a guy who's been too lazy to work (or for other reasons) will just make him a bit more lazy. In other words, it lessens motivation and incentives to work hard and grow in the economy since the gov't will be paying the poor anyway. hope this helped a bit...
     
  4. Gl3nn

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    Summary:

    - rich people don't like it because they lose money
    - poor people like it because they get money
     
  5. uncutguy37

    uncutguy37 Active Member

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    Why should people who work hard and save their money and become successful have the gov. step in and take some of their money and give it to people who dont work and who dont save,

    I go to work everyday, usually 12 hours a day, and I dont think its fair for the gov. to take more of my money,(I already pay taxes) and give it to people who dont work and dont want want to work, most are home everyday getting food stamps and other things, ( I dont mean black people, more white women are on welfare than blacks) but most dont want to work and want the gov to take care of them and have more kids just to get more money. why should I have to pay for it, just like the mortgage problem, I pay my mortgage every month, why should people who didnt pay get (bailed out)

    Obama wants to penalize people who are succesful and take care of themselfs, so the Gov. can step in and take care of everything, socialism..
     
  6. houtx48

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    who the hell said anything about giving money away. put it towards education and infrasturcture, this country is running on post world war two, it time to up date.
     
  7. tripod

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    Wealth redistribution is comples and involves waaaaaaay more than just taking from the rich and giving to the poor... that is an oversimplification to say the least.

    Study FDR's New Deal
     
  8. polesmoker

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    It will only affect a small percentage of people who control almost all the wealth in this country. They want to keep their money which is understandable. Redistribution would tax them more heavily and put that money in the hands of lower class people.
     
  9. piledrivenasshole

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    What some of you may be missing is that it is usually those with the entrepreneurial mindset, fortitude and shear guts that are willing to put their necks on the line so that the majority of America's workforce has the opportunity to get out of bed (those that are too lazy exempt themselves) and go make a living in order to provide for themselves and their family. If any of you have ever owned a small business it's generally not the American Dream, but the American nightmare! So tell my why the government should increase what it takes from the small businessman and spread it around (welfare, for lack of a more correct term) to those who sit at home feeling they are ENTITLED??????? Surely all adults are intelligent enough to understand that businesses pass on higher costs to the retail customer. (And who is that???? HELLO!!!!!) Without lower taxes there is no incentive for "over achievers to make jobs for others who are less adventurous. Oh, and by the way..... How smart is it to think that businesses, whether small or large can continue to pay higher taxes, health care costs and pension plans for everyone that ever held a job? For God's sake DO THE MATH!!!!! If it weren't for "business" and the philathropic gifts to all of us as Americans, we would not have the many benefits that we all knowingly and unknowingly enjoy every day.
     
  10. Gl3nn

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    Why is it even called the American dream? I think everyone in the world wants to be financially independent, have a house and family. Not just americans
     
  11. sargon20

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    The idea that they 'worked' for it and deserve it is a joke. Is a CEO worth 440 times that of the average worked in the same company?

    American productivity has been rising and rising, by double digits in some years, every year but where are the fruits of those gains when income barely rising 2-3% a year? Someone's taking home the money for all of that.

    Income inequality grew significantly in 2005, with the top 1 percent of Americans — those with incomes that year of more than $348,000 — receiving their largest share of national income since 1928, analysis of newly released tax data shows.

    The top 10 percent, roughly those earning more than $100,000, also reached a level of income share not seen since before the Depression.

    The new data also shows that the top 300,000 Americans collectively enjoyed almost as much income as the bottom 150 million Americans. Per person, the top group received 440 times as much as the average person in the bottom half earned, nearly doubling the gap from 1980.

    Think of that number. The top 300000 earned as much as the bottom 150 million.

    Yes, the market creates innovation. The market produces so many wonderful things. They're a part of this fabulous quality of life that we have in the United States. And we love it. However, there's a dark side of the market. Dark side of exclusion, the dark side of excess, the dark side of greed and manipulation.
     
    #11 sargon20, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  12. ripsrips

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    It is forcefully taken away from you…disguised as a tax.
    In other words; you work to pay for yourself and someone else. They don’t have to even work for it.


    We know a couple who are doctors and if barry is elected and gets his way they will be taxed even more they make close to $300,000 She's OBGYN, He's a Pediatrician, they're not CEO's. There are tens of thousands of doctors and millions other hard working people who will be affected.

    If they are taxed more their profits are down they raise the cost of services, we pay more!
     
    #12 ripsrips, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  13. Gl3nn

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    CEOs have more responsibilty then the average worker. If anything goes wrong, it's their fault. So they deserve a high pay check.


    (just to clarify: I'm for Obama. In case you were wondering...)
     
  14. houtx48

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    in this country as in most of the western world there are going to be people that get rich no matter what. who do you think should bear the tax burden in a perfect world?
     
  15. Gl3nn

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    Well maybe they should change the infrastructure and then look at the taxes again. National health care, education that doesn't make get people into debt even before they start working, ...
     
  16. tripod

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    It's about having a strong society... not about who has the most money.

    Great wealth is usually created at the expense of society.

    We should want everyone to make it, we must all get there... together.
     
  17. Phil Ayesho

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    This is the attitude that republicans use to try and convince you that the rich ALWAYS deserve to be rich and the poor always deserve to be poor.

    But its a lie-
    the middle class and poor work HARDER than the rich. Far harder. They simply did not have the advantages the rich were born with.

    The truth is the ultra rich MOSTLY got that way thru inheritance- family connections and unscrupulous business practices.

    GW has never worked hard in his life- His Daddy got him into Yale- not his grades, his Daddy got Bin Laden money invested in his oil businesses- which failed, according to one Arbusto executive- thru GW's seldom being on the job.

    Sure, there are middle classers who have worked their way up... thru hard work... and paid heavy taxes the whole way... but WHY should hard work mean you get out of paying taxes?


    Look, NO ONE made themselves rich-
    They took advantage of a society that is managed to make it possible for them to attain and achieve. Their customers paid them the money they pocketed, they used the power lines, water supplies, roadways, internet, and media we ALL paid for...
    And thru diligence, and a LOT of luck, they managed to parley THIS society into personal wealth...

    Congratulations. Because you GOT more out of this society you can AFFORD to support it more.


    Sorry- but the logic that poor people DESERVE their fate and rich people Deserve their's is elitist.


    You want to keep making money? That depends entirely on the REST of society being able to spend money.

    The rich benefit MORE and business booms when the rich pay more in taxes.



    Ad "redistribution"

    ALL the government does is to take tax money and re-distribute it.

    The Republicans use the term "re-distribution of wealth" to imply that the government is making the average taxpayer LESS wealthy thru giving money to social programs.

    This is a bald faced lie- but it seems effective...
    Just as Americans were swayed by calling it the "death tax" to do away with inheritance taxes- a bill that only benefits the rich- and which tends to further concentrate wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people.

    (The Inheritance tax was implemented to try and PREVENT a few families from gaining 90% of all wealth thru the normal actions of capitalism...
    It brought an end to the Robber Baron period.)

    Americans often back an IDEA they like the sound of, without understanding that it actualy is BAD for their own personal objectives.


    They like the OSUND of people who work hard keeping their money- because they know THEY work hard.... but the miss the fact that THEY are not the ones who benefit... only those in the leisure class benefit. The ones who don't HAVE to work hard.




    They similarly miss that those complaining of redistribution of wealth are ACTUALLY backihng the CONCENTRATION of wealth.

    They want the wealth of the middle class re-distributed to CORPORATE contracts, rather than to social programs such as scholarships, infrastructure, education, healthcare... programs that would ACTUALLY give taxpayer money BACK to the taxpayer in the form of services.



    The rich want to pay vastly less than their share of taxes... and they want the vast majority of YOUR taxes to go into THEIR corporate pockets thru defense contracts, bailouts, and the privatization of public services.

    And, being rich, they can pay for the Propaganda and bribes that get them what they want.

    What we see today is the result of Honest American workers being talked into an agenda that only benefits the wealthy.

    The Government, not being in it for the money, needs to re-distribute tax wealth in hte manner that will benefit the MOST people, not the least.

    Corporations need to get a lot of it- because they employ people... but they can not get it all.
    Social services are Necessary and that which is fundamentally necessary should NOT be profited upon.
    For 42 cents the government will take your letter from your house and deliver it to another house on the other side of the nation.

    There is no way a private company could do this for this price. If the Postal system was privatized- you would pay more to send a letter further.
    And you have to pay enough for stock speculators to be able to pocket some of the money for doing nothing at all.


    Be wary-
    Recent events shopw clearly the scope of the lie you are being told... the "free market" guys want the market to be free for them to manipulate...

    And they are HAPPY as clams to Re-distribute their debt onto YOUR shoulders, while the con you into letting them redistribute YOUR taxes into their pockets.
     
  18. bark

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    I absolutely can not wait until this election is over. I don't think ANYONE knows what will happen when the new guy gets in there. I just can't wait to get it over with and stop all this speculating. Just let him try to change a few things around and SEE what happens. Maybe he'll get it right, maybe he'll fuck it up and we'll kick him to the curb. Let's just see. And another thing, I don't think either guy will really stick to his campaign promises, so it is so pointless to waste our time arguing about things that they probably aren't even going to follow through on anyway. I just want to get it the hell over with and find out if the new guy can get it right for once or if we've got another typical jackass for president. And you know, all you McCain and Obama lovers, if your guy wins, you're likely not going to love him anymore in a few years time. This is politics people. It's a sleezball contest. The slickest con-artist wins. All this big talk now, hope and excitement, and amateur government experts coming out of the woodwork, its wracking my nerves. We don't know what's going to happen except about half the country is going be pissed with the choice in the beginning, and the rest will be pissed with the choice later. And we'll end up having to make the best out of what we've got to work with. Let's just get it over with.
     
    #18 bark, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  19. bark

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    Ok, so after my pessimistic comment above, I've been thinking and I've got some questions about this subject after all.

    Someone gave examples of how all rich people do not deserve to be rich. But some rich people do deserve what they have. And what about poor people? How do poor people get to be poor? Do poor people have no control over their own fate? Is it really our responsibility to support every poor person across the board? Why don't all you people who WANT to support poor people give them YOUR money and leave everyone else's money alone?

    I am in the LOWEST income bracket at the moment and I am fine with that. I don't want the government to give me a hand. I feel totally safe and confident being independent from the government and free from their support. I live off of the Montgomery GI Bill and nothing else. For months in which I do not attend classes, I get $0 income. I live off the GI bill that I SAVED in previous months. I pay my bills and buy my gas and food just fine. I am very POOR and I don't need help, and I don't believe other people in my income range don't either. We have the means to better ourselves without handouts from people who already have. I like the idea of FREEDOM, freedom to live my own life without the government manipulating my life. If I make out, then I made of my merit without the government to do it for me.

    What about the incentive and motivation factor? Many people are motivated to get an education and an upper level job due to the higher pay. Now I can feel safe knowing that I don't really have to do anything if I don't want to because the government will give me what I need. If we take away that incentive to succeed, are we undermining the progress and education of our youth? "You're wasting your time in college man. You can get paid just as much delivering pizzas part-time".

    What about undermining the economy by increasing taxes? The richest people are the biggest investors and spenders. If we take their money and put it in government programs, then doesn't that inhibit investment and consumer spending and therefore inhibit the economy of the nation? Wouldn't that depend on whether the money went to building up government or actually went into the hands of low-earning consumers? But those people would likely spend more and invest less. What will that mean?

    Everyone is throwing around this word socialism. So, what is socialism in a nutshell? Why is it bad? Why not just say fuck democratic capitalism, we are socialists now, and so what? What would be wrong with that? If we could be socialist why not be communist? What would be wrong with that? What was so good about free-market capitalism the way we had it compared to our other options?

    Following that then, if socialism is so bad, and we are not really on the way to being socialist, then what are the major differences from what Obama has planned and what socialism really is? Spell it out; the definition of socialism, and why we are not that and not going to be that. Why is what we are doing similar to socialism, but not as bad, while full blown socialism is worse?

    So, from what I think, it seems that we are at least approaching socialism. If we don't want to be socialist, can we say that we need to draw a line? Then where do we draw the line? What would be too much socialist? Can we make this one change, and then stop before we cross the line? Does taking this current step make it easier for us to become more socialist in the future?

    Yes, I already have my own ideas about a lot of this stuff. I learned the basics in college, and I know how to read wikipedia etc., but I want to hear what you've got to say and spell it out here in concise terms for the sake of discussion.
     
    #19 bark, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  20. Calboner

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    The phrase "American dream" is a cliché that American politicians of all stripes use because it raises warm feelings in audiences. Of course there is nothing specifically American about aspiring to gain a better life for yourself and your family through your work. But most Americans believe, rightly or wrongly, that their country is peculiarly favorable to that aspiration.
     
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