Regular gasoline/petrol is $1.60/gallon now

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wyldgusechaz, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Thank you President Bush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Of course if you paid attention to my posts back when gas was thru the roof, you would have known it was a monetary issue, not a political issue. Bush did not make gas go up and he did not make gas go down.

    Also sure shoots down the notion that the idiot liberals like Philayesho who blamed it on corporate greed and energy speculators.

    Gas was expensive cause the dollar was weak. It will get real expensive again as we weaken the dollar in order to inflate our way out of this economic crisis.
     
  2. sargon20

    Gold Member

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    Bush is to be congratulated for running the country over the cliff in every way imaginable. No one could have ever thought 8 years ago that it could ever be as bad as it is. The worst case nightmare he topped even that.

    So indeed CONGRATULATIONS!!!


    He's The Worst Ever


    Greenspan: This Is The Worst Economy I've Ever Seen

    Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan offered a woeful outlook of America's economic situation on Sunday, saying the crisis with the country's financial institutions was as dire as he had ever seen in his long career
     
  3. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Wow... Just wow. I had no idea distortions & stretches of the truth could be THIS blatant. Calling the OP flamebait is just too nice. This is a complete disconnect from reality.

    I don't believe I'm about to say this, but the thread about infant circumcision is even more credible!
     
  4. Nrets

    Nrets Member

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    Corporate greed and energy speculators did drive it up, in part. The weak dollar might have had a tiny part in it, but the high prices were mostly due to the two former factors. The current freefall of the price of gas, however, has more to do with weak demand and a weak economy than anything else. And responsibility for that is arguably very much on Bush's shoulders. He removed much of the saftely regulatory features of financing. He made the marketplace freer. Energy companies gouged people because they could. And so did the housing market. And so did many other markets. Well now in an enormous domino effect, people just can't buy stuff, so prices of gas and houses are falling. If it spreads to every market...we will be in dire economic straits for a long time.

    It is easy to blame Bush. But he was just part of a huge problem that America has: greed. Corporate. Government and personal. No one wants to give up their piece of the cake.

    All I gotta say is I figured out a good guage of how bad it really is that you don't need news guys or analysts telling you what is up to gauge the crisis. Food. If food prices drop 20-30%...we can all know that this is more than a recession.
     
    #4 Nrets, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  5. TurkeyWithaSunburn

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    Isn't it interesting that some of the hedge funds have gone belly up and now the price of oil and therefore gas is down?

    Could it be.......



    Speculators were to blame?
     
  6. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    No wonder you tend to be a little angry. You are baffled by the world around you. That leads to frustration.

    I will help you and all the other folks here who don't get it here some Econ 101.

    Right now commodities like oil are priced in dollars. As the dollar moves up and down those commodities fluctuate in price. Now we could peg oil to the Euro and maybe it might be more stable but who knows?

    The world demand for oil runs to about 85 billion barrels a day. Oil WAS at $140/barrel and now is about $50. It has lost 2/3s of its value. For demand to be an issue, it would have had to drop by millions of barrels per day and it hasn't. It has been curbed but not by 2/3s.

    When an oil speculator makes a play he needs someone on the other side of the play in order to make a market. It is not a one sided deal. If I speculate that oil will go to $100 a barrel and I buy a futures contract at that price someone needed to sell me that contract, believing that oil would be less than $100 at the strike date of the sale. I can't drive it up, I just play a trend. Its gambling. Can you imagine the money that was made when oil was $140 and a guy sold a 6 month contract at back then at $140? He sold it back then for $140 and now he gets to buy it at $50. Anyone in the last month or so who was trying to buy oil got trampled. Its a zero sum game.

    Notice that Prez elect Obama has backed down from his windfall profits tax on Big Oil? Why? Because he is a real fast learner and he has realized that there really are no windfall profits to tax. Oil is a very tough business and it has whip saw type moves up and down that perplex even the best economists.

    My O post was dead on accurate, the sad thing is you aren't sharp enough to understand it. I feel sorry for you.
     
  7. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Hedge funds were for the most part not commodities investors. If you can provide a realisitc scenario for how speculators drove oil up and why they could not keep it there, please enlighten me.

    Don't look for mythical bogey men, look at the economics and the stats. Its all there for you to see.
     
  8. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Still really bizzare that gasoline prices can fluctuate by a 3 dollar a gallon margin within the course of 5 months (in July, reg gas was $4.79 a gallon in CA)
     
  9. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    believe that trying to impute blame on corporate agents or trading speculators is a wild goose chase, as the following WSJ article suggests:

    See You Later, Speculator


    SEPTEMBER 15, 2008


    It was said to be the year of speculators gone wild. Seemingly everyone in Washington, including Barack Obama and John McCain, decided that oil prices were soaring because profiteers and middlemen were manipulating the futures markets. "Speculators" were spotted everywhere this side of the grassy knoll.
    The only problem is that there's no evidence to support the conspiracy theories -- and sure enough, federal regulators dismantled this Beltway consensus late last week. In one of the broadest and most authoritative studies to date, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission has offered hard statistical data that financial trading hasn't been driving price moves. The CFTC conducted an unprecedented Wall Street data sweep and scrutinized millions of transactions worth billions of dollars between January and June of this year.
    Commodity futures markets have grown fivefold by volume over the last decade, while becoming more complex. "Index traders" are one cause. These pension funds and other institutional investors don't buy options for commercial use, but rather roll them over from month to month as passive long-term investments. "Swap dealers," usually investment banks, operate off the main exchanges and sell customized futures packages to firms. These aggregations of options and derivatives are designed to match particular needs and spread risk more broadly.
    Lo and behold, the CFTC found that index traders and swap dealers actually reduced their stake in crude oil futures as prices spiked. The number of contracts held by these investors betting that prices would increase -- the net long position -- fell by 11%, and more were shorting oil than going long over the six-month period. In other words, index traders and swap dealers were driving the future price of oil down.
    Commodity index funds also have a much smaller share of the oil market than everyone thought: just 13%. Even if the figure was 70% or more, as some assumed, it wouldn't have mattered. In a futures exchange, trades are matched, so one trader's gain is another's loss. The overall volume is irrelevant.
    The CFTC study is especially notable because it came in response to extraordinary political pressure. Congress held more than 40 hearings on "speculation" over the summer, and commission chief Walter Lukken was the pinata. Federal bureaucracies have been known to try to appease their Congressional funders, so the CFTC deserves special credit for debunking the speculator frenzy.
    As it happens, the CFTC report arrived just as the Moe, Larry and Curley of the antispeculation show -- Senators Byron Dorgan and Maria Cantwell, and Michigan Democrat Bart Stupak -- pre-emptively released their own study, by Virgin Islands fund manager Michael Masters, which purports to show "index speculators" are "now the single most dominant force in the commodities futures market." Bad political timing, folks.
    Then again, the speculation furor was never about the evidence. The politicians wanted a fall guy for rising prices, since the real explanations of supply and demand and the falling dollar were partly their fault. On that point, the CFTC rightly notes that the expansion of commodities indexing can be partially explained by investors seeking to "hedge against inflation." It's not surprising that traders have been driven to commodities to protect themselves, given that the Federal Reserve, Bush Administration and Congress have all trashed the dollar.
    No doubt the politicians will keep trying to shoot the price messengers, but thanks to the CFTC they look increasingly silly in doing so.
     
    #9 B_Nick4444, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  10. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    So I guess the McCain/Palin Mantra of "Drill Baby Drill" didn't cause gas prices to fall?? Imagine!
     
  11. transformer_99

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    I think over the Bush administration the auto industry and oil industry tried to see how far they could push prices. It's evident the auto industry is now in "green" mode and as electric becomes the new standard, the oil industry had to go for every penny they could. In the next few years and decade, Americans will have choices. Gas, hybrids and electric. Right now there isn't as wide a choice, but I think when we go on-line in the future, every model is going to be like building a computer and all the options will be there from gasoline, electric, hybrid, natural gas, diesel, bio-diesel, and it'll be a bubble you click on to build that car to custom order. Cars will be like Dell or Apple computers when you order one. In the end, they'll all cost about the same and your fuel of choice will run about the same. Everyone will have their own preference.

    Bush was an era of greed, pure and simple, incomes didn't pace that inflation and now the economy is broken for it. They priced it out of reach for too many and consumers stopped spending/going into debt for it. So they don't want us to have it or want us to mortgage our lives for it, so be it, we won't buy it period and they can watch it spoil/rot or rust and eat their loss. Unfortunately though we have a Government that feels compelled to bail this greed out. I say they made record profits, so let them make/take record losses and let them go out of business.
     
  12. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    What the hell are you talking about?
     
  13. transformer_99

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    I'd say self-imposed domestic economic sanctions and embargoes has this economy tanking quite well. And where that isn't applicable, pricing us out of the market, they're castrating themselves quite well with their own greed. Al Qaeda isn't the enemy any more and that's if they ever were ? Al Qaeda never doubled, tripled or quadrupled the price of fuel, food and homes in America, Decades of barely raising incomes in the form of our salaries and wages. It's all a perspective, a majority of this nation has been under siege during the Bush administrations. I'm not fooled one bit by the auto industry showing up in DC looking for it's corporate welfare check. Let this hit rock bottom, we'll all be better human beings for it. I want to be able to buy prime real estate for pennies on the dollar. Healthcare not affordable ? No problem, no premiums for those rat bastards ! Decades of getting cheaper on us ? Starting us over ? No problem there either, let them enjoy those wonderful products. When they have only themselves to pay for them, they'll find out they're only redistributing the wealth amongst themselves and overcharging themselves.
     
    #13 transformer_99, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    I'm not angry. Living in New York I don't need a car, so the price of gas doesn't affect me. But I am laughing. At you. For actually THINKING that the price of gas dropping has anything to do with Bush.

    You already failed with your OP. Doesn't really matter what your broken calculator says. And with that, I'll delete the rest of your psychobabble and keep laughing at you. :biggrin1:
     
  15. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    You are so fucking dumb. You are so stupid you can't even read. You are a bit illiterate.

    Here is what I said: Bush did not make gas go up and he did not make gas go down.

    I feel for you. Just plain poorly educated.
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    What I choose to read, and what I refuse to read are two entirely different things. If I made a mistake and misinterpreted your ridiculous statements then so be it. But to resort to calling me "fuckin' dumb"? What a laugh riot! And this is coming from someone who identifies himself as the forum bigot, who has managed to twist almost every political ideal on this forum into a blind, rhetorical & stereotypical issue between race and/or social class? Where's that darn mirror when you need to show an ass his own reflection?

    Gee willickers... I've think I've pissed off the bigot! Goodie for me, I suppose...

    Don't flatter yourself... you don't have feelings. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Notaguru2

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    You think the dollar is strong now? You're an idiot. Check the exchange rates, chaz. The dollar is strong compared to what? A rupee?
     
  18. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Like shooting fish in a barrel. I love being right.

    U.S. Dollar to Euro Exchange Rate - Yahoo! Finance

    When I post I know what I am talking about contrary to you. Click on the 5 year graph and see the steady dollar decline and then a very sharp uptick these last months. Almost a dead on correlation to how the price of oil has fluctuated.

    I accept your praise and your apology.
     
    #18 Wyldgusechaz, Dec 9, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  19. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    If you had read it accurately, we would at least been able to dialogue. -Because you are of limited wit, you jumped on my post in error. This is all your fault but I know your aren't real capable.
     
  20. transformer_99

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    Hillarious, .77 Euros for every dollar I have, where can I line up for this deal ?
     
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