Relationship ended thanks to being bi.

Phil Ayesho

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This is what comes of the highly successful campaign run by the gay community to convince the society that men are Either 100% straight... or 100% gay.

Homophobes already had a tendency to think ANY homosexual contact meant a guy was a full on fag... but for the gay community, the objective was acceptance of the fact that a large percentage of men are gay.
They wanted that percentage to be as large as possible to 'normalize' homosexuality.

And they succeeded in convincing pretty much everyone that men who claim to be bi were "in denial" of their true, all gay nature.


Only recently has it become accepted that maybe bi orientations actually do exist and are not 'transitional'.


But the op will have a very hard time finding a woman who has not been programmed to believe that 'bi' men are on the path to admitting being gay.
 

AlteredEgo

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Most of reason I would suggest that people forgive has to do with getting to acceptance. If you can let go of the negativity, then forgiveness isn't needed. But you can't hold onto the negativity and move forward.

For me, I had to forgive someone. I never told them I did, and I never forgot it, but I had to forgive them in order for me to process the rest of my emotions.
I will never forgive or forget what that person did to me. However, I found another path to accepting who they are as a person, and found peace. What needed to know, was that it was okay that I would never be able to forgive what happened.
 
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This is what comes of the highly successful campaign run by the gay community to convince the society that men are Either 100% straight... or 100% gay.

Homophobes already had a tendency to think ANY homosexual contact meant a guy was a full on fag... but for the gay community, the objective was acceptance of the fact that a large percentage of men are gay.
They wanted that percentage to be as large as possible to 'normalize' homosexuality.

And they succeeded in convincing pretty much everyone that men who claim to be bi were "in denial" of their true, all gay nature.


Only recently has it become accepted that maybe bi orientations actually do exist and are not 'transitional'.


But the op will have a very hard time finding a woman who has not been programmed to believe that 'bi' men are on the path to admitting being gay.
What is your evidence for saying that?
 
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MisterB

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What is your evidence for saying that?

Raises hand. I know, I know.

He pulled this from his ass. Only place I know of where such shit comes from!

Am I offended? Fuck yeah. I'm gonna respond directly to that poster. I've read alot of twisted bullshit on this site, but this one post you quoted has to be one of the most ridiculous I've ever seen here. Even factoring in the Politics Section and the Woman's Issues threads.

Just wow.
 
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Raises hand. I know, I know.

He pulled this from his ass. Only place I know of where such shit comes from!

Am I offended? Fuck yeah. I'm gonna respond directly to that poster. I've read alot of twisted bullshit on this site, but this one post you quoted has to be one of the most ridiculous I've ever seen here. Even factoring in the Politics Section and the Woman's Issues threads.

Just wow.
I'm not angry, just amused and curious :rolleyes:
 
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ItsAll4Kim

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This is what comes of the highly successful campaign run by the gay community to convince the society that men are Either 100% straight... or 100% gay.

Homophobes already had a tendency to think ANY homosexual contact meant a guy was a full on fag... but for the gay community, the objective was acceptance of the fact that a large percentage of men are gay.
They wanted that percentage to be as large as possible to 'normalize' homosexuality.

And they succeeded in convincing pretty much everyone that men who claim to be bi were "in denial" of their true, all gay nature.


Only recently has it become accepted that maybe bi orientations actually do exist and are not 'transitional'.


But the op will have a very hard time finding a woman who has not been programmed to believe that 'bi' men are on the path to admitting being gay.

This campaign...were there meetings for it, with a secret handshake? I've seen a lot of tv, yet somehow missed the, "The More You Know" where we were all told, "You can't be just a little gay".

smdh....
 

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Rather than hit the reply button to Mr. Ayesho's post #121 above, I've copied and pasted it here to facilitate my response (In Bold) to Mr. Ayesho's posting, should anyone care to read my comments. Warning: it's kinda long. Oh well. Here we go.

Mr. Ayesho, you've made several sweeping generalizations. Your assertions and observations are just wrong, not to mention HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. Your lack of any evidence to support your writings just astounds me. And you wrote it as if what you state is matter-of-fact, and how-it-is. You sir, could not be more wrong on everything you have asserted.

Mr. Ayesho's words:
This is what comes of the highly successful campaign run by the gay community to convince the society that men are Either 100% straight... or 100% gay.

Um, no. I've been a card-carrying homosexual since 1973. Yep, I realized I was gay when gay wasn't so cool. I quickly assimilated; I was busy, active in various facets of the gay community. There is no, nor has there ever been, any "campaign", let alone a "highly successful campaign" run by the gay community, to convince society of anything other than the simple fact that we are people, just like you/them, and as such, wish to have equal treatment. Period.

We work, play, pay taxes, marry, and raise children, just like most of society.
Have we protested? Have we fought back? Have we persisted? Have we persevered? DAMN RIGHT! And as an OUT GAY MAN since the age of 19, I'm PROUD that we have finally achieved SOME parity/equality. We still have some ways to go, but we're moving in the right direction. Did I ever expect to be legally married to a man? Not in my lifetime. Kinda ironic that a straight man gave me that right.

Don't ever forget what the LGBTQ acronym stands for: Lesbian, Gay, Bi-Sexual, Transgender and Queer. Also, this acronym has morphed over time to be MORE INCLUSIVE for those who may identify otherwise. You present here as 70% straight/30% gay. WELCOME to the Big Tent!


Homophobes already had a tendency to think ANY homosexual contact meant a guy was a full on fag...While I can't speak to that, cuz I'm not a homophobe, it appears you have. And I'm not one to toss the "f" word around so carelessly. In fact, I would compare its usage to the usage of the "N" word. Just not cool in my book. Kinda like the "C" word is not one I'm likely to use. It too can be quite offensive. Just not cool.

But I can assure you that this 100% gay man has never had issues with any other persons in our community. Just don't care enough cuz does it really matter? Not to me. Fuck dude, my former little 150 pound twinkself was the mascot of one of D.C.'s Lesbian softball teams. I partied in drag bars. I hung out in Leather bars. I wore out the Hideaway, the Lost and Found, Grand Central and Mr. P's to name but a few. Wherever good music and fun folks were having fun times, I was all about it. That's how most of us are.


but for the gay community, the objective was acceptance of the fact that a large percentage of men are gay. Um, again, no, there was no campaign, per se, other than the fact that our objective, from the earliest days of the gay rights movement, such as Stonewall, was for acceptance of LGBTQ folks as just other people. Equal treatment. Parity. Period.

They wanted that percentage to be as large as possible to 'normalize' homosexuality. I'm not sure who "they" are, but I can assure you that for me, homosexuality is my normal. And I'd hazard to bet I'm not alone with that feeling. I did make it my life's work to educate ignorant folks about being gay. I guess my work is just not done yet, eh?

And they succeeded in convincing pretty much everyone that men who claim to be bi were "in denial" of their true, all gay nature. As @hunghorse30 asked, What's your evidence? What's your source? If it's your own personal experience, then say that. But making shit up, using "they" to make your point, doesn't help you make a coherent argument. In fact, it makes me roll my eyes and say to myself, "Here we go again". And lordy, I'm just weary of going down the same road, over and over and over. It's like being stuck watching a bad porn loop. I hate it.

Only recently has it become accepted that maybe bi orientations actually do exist and are not 'transitional'. Accepted by whom? The gay community? The Lesbian community? The heterosexual community? The bi-sexual community? Just who are these accepting people? Are they themselves "transitional"? What I've seen over my vast "queer career" is that sexuality, especially in today's social media age, has become more transparent, and as a result, more normal now than ever. As a result, I think more people are comfortable in their own skins with their own sexuality at a younger and younger age; it's just not the issue it once was. Funny how more younger people than ever just don't give a shit about who you or they sleep with. Who would have thought we'd watch TV shows about helping "straight" guys dress better, or about gay dating, or bi-sexual dating, or about transgendered youth and their struggles, or how about drag racing that wasn't about cars? The more that's seen, the more the Who Gives A Shit becomes the norm. And let's not forget as more of this country's "dinosaurs" die off, their "replacements" are just not so "anti", pretty much about anything.

But the op will have a very hard time finding a woman who has not been programmed to believe that 'bi' men are on the path to admitting being gay. And you know this how? Personal experience? Anecdotal? C'mon man, this is just another generalization on your part with nothing to support your contention. Period. I believe we have several posters here who identify less than fully straight or fully gay that have successful partnerships. Unfortunately, the OP was not one of those successful couplers. Yet.

Okay folks, I'm done with my rant. I apologize for its length, but not its content. I needed to get this out. I'm tired of stereotypes. And not just those about Gay people.

Cheers and Peace to all! Especially you Mr. Ayesho. I wish you well.
 

Phil Ayesho

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This campaign...were there meetings for it, with a secret handshake? I've seen a lot of tv, yet somehow missed the, "The More You Know" where we were all told, "You can't be just a little gay".

smdh....
Yeah.... that's exactly how the agenda was promoted....


Try and be real... I lived thru it. I can't tell you how many times I heard Gay activists and ordinary gay men state in media, over lunch, in social settings that a man who says he's bi is really a gay man in denial, or who has not yet come to full grips with his gay orientation.

The BELIEF was spread by a gay community that WANTED that to be true, because they wanted to believe that there were more gay men... it served their interests in normalizing homosexuality.


By the same token, the gay community ALSO propounds the belief that being gay is NOT A CHOICE... that people are exclusively 'born' gay. There is zero real proof of this... but they keep beating that drum, too, for a reason... namely, the thought that if folks are born that way then they can't change it, and they imagine this is an argument against the notion that being gay is a disease, a mental aberration, or something to be "cured".

In truth that's a weak argument because scoliosis is something you can be born with, and we still treat it as a disability and treat it.


Only recently has the validity of genuinely bi orientations begun being accepted, within the queer community...

But the vast majority of straight people today still buy into the narrative they heard growing up... that men who claim to be bi will eventually admit to being entirely gay.


Go on OK Cupid- one of their questions is whether you would date someone with same sex experience.
Answer it and then you can see how hetero women answered the question and it will be eye opening for you to see how many women would Never date a guy who is bi.


Very young women who were raised in a world where bisexuality is accepted as valid are often okay with it... but the older the women... the higher a percentage would never date a bi guy.
 
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Phil Ayesho

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And you know this how? Personal experience? Anecdotal? C'mon man, this is just another generalization on your part with nothing to support your contention. Period.

Hilarious that you accuse me of offering anecdote after a rather lengthy string of anecdotes.

The fact is that bisexuality was NOT discussed socially in the 40s and 50s and 60s in this culture, outside of clinical circles.

It became discussed more with the advent of the gay rights movement... and the plain fact is that you can READ articles written during that era and routinely see bisexuality characterized as gay men in denial or transition.

The fact is the OP gives anecdote that the woman HE loved had this exact same prejudice.


Where the hell do you think SHE got this idea?

I invite you to try the OKCUPID experiment I outline in my previous post. You can conduct your OWN randomized survey in that way- because I HAVE- that would NOT be anecdotal- but I am pretty sure you won't bother to actually research it because I am pretty sure you know what you would find.

Percentage of men willing to date a woman with bisexual experience? 85%
Percentage of women willing to date men with bisexual experience? 6% ( in women over age 40- percentages get a bit better as the age group gets younger)

Sorry but your personal experience means very little.

The gay activist community forwarded a narrative of being gay that they thought would push thru liberalized laws and more equal treatment. Really and for true- there are books written by these activists that explain their rationales.

They really did believe that bisexual men were just gay men raised in a homophobic culture that were coming to grips with their real desires...
and that theory was embraced on the clinical world, as well.

Bit the fact that more men are okay with bisexual women, than women who are okay with bisexual men proves conclusively that there is a cultural belief about bisexual MEN that is not the same as belief about bisexual women.

Bisexual women are seen as more fluid in their sexuality, and more likely to revert to heterosexual relationships.

Bisexual men are still largely seen as gay men passing as straight.


That prejudice is there. I didn't make it up... and you fail to explain it.
 
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Yeah.... that's exactly how the agenda was promoted....


Try and be real... I lived thru it. I can't tell you how many times I heard Gay activists and ordinary gay men state in media, over lunch, in social settings that a man who says he's bi is really a gay man in denial, or who has not yet come to full grips with his gay orientation.

The BELIEF was spread by a gay community that WANTED that to be true, because they wanted to believe that there were more gay men... it served their interests in normalizing homosexuality.


By the same token, the gay community ALSO propounds the belief that being gay is NOT A CHOICE... that people are exclusively 'born' gay. There is zero real proof of this... but they keep beating that drum, too, for a reason... namely, the thought that if folks are born that way then they can't change it, and they imagine this is an argument against the notion that being gay is a disease, a mental aberration, or something to be "cured".

In truth that's a weak argument because scoliosis is something you can be born with, and we still treat it as a disability and treat it.


Only recently has the validity of genuinely bi orientations begun being accepted, within the queer community...

But the vast majority of straight people today still buy into the narrative they heard growing up... that men who claim to be bi will eventually admit to being entirely gay.


Go on OK Cupid- one of their questions is whether you would date someone with same sex experience.
Answer it and then you can see how hetero women answered the question and it will be eye opening for you to see how many women would Never date a guy who is bi.


Very young women who were raised in a world where bisexuality is accepted as valid are often okay with it... but the older the women... the higher a percentage would never date a bi guy.
Links to the “campaign” please. Such a successful campaign run by gay activists that shaped how the world views bisexuality - must be tons of stuff in the media, pamphlets flying off the gay press, social media buzz, maybe medical articles from the gay medical establishment? Let's see it. Cos it's strange that I've lived all my life among gay men and women and don't think I've heard a single one deny the existence of bisexuality.
 

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Seems rather disrespectful to her, actually pretty fucking rotten, that you would post a picture of you getting a handy from anyone but her during the time you were dating, regardless of when you took the picture.

Now this changes my entire perception of you. I was giving you the benefit of doubt, that you were being honest about not wanting anyone but her. When reading posts from other members, I try to apply only what is actually posted rather than imposing a lot of my own junk into the mix. Had I seen that picture and when it was posted (it's been here the entirety of your relationship), I would figure, probably accurately, that she knew you had cheated, even if it was just trolling chat rooms or other "innocent" stuff.

While her reaction was mean, I now agree completely with @AlteredEgo....it was rational.

When you do what you did, you get what you got.

I'm very curious where you're seeing these. As I said before, any pics of me with someone the time we were together are with her.
 
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That prejudice is there. I didn't make it up... and you fail to explain it.
You seem to be arguing two different things: that there's prejudice and misunderstanding in society about male bisexuality (maybe true) and that this was created as a campaign by gays to serve their own agenda. You've failed to explain or convince on the second part. OKCupid is not exactly gay activism. If there is prejudice about bisexuality isn't that more likely to be inbuilt in straight culture, where do you get the idea that gays invented and promoted this?
 
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Did the relationship really end because she was biphobic, homophobic, and insecure?, or did it end because she had healthy self-esteem?
Moving towards being more open, and more visible was all about you (which is fine, sometimes you've got to be selfish), but were you also considering getting one of those "I'm with stupid" t-shirts? It sounds like she got a bit shouty and mean by the end of the relationship, but I think that was because she must have genuinely had feelings for you and was just hurt by the fact that you were probably thinking about gay porn most of the time when you were with her, and trying to be visible for whatever reason you felt the need to do that. Neither of you were at fault here. You are just going through some stuff you need to go through I guess, but try to have some empathy for how it affected her. Had you been actively trying to trash her self-esteem you could not have done a better job.

If you are in a 100% monogamous relationship (gay or straight), and considering a full on house and kids scenario you need to be 100% in it together, which you weren't, and she had the good sense to end it.
 
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I have been gay all my life (so far) but have never been made aware of a formal movement to automatically label bisexuals as gay.

**Since there has been no bi-community to speak up for a bi-identity, there is little disciplinary history to consider.

That said, one recent survey reported through The Goodman Project shows around 50 percent of respondents acknowledged having had some form of bi-sexual experience.

The following statements reflect a range of beliefs (opinions) held by the general population about Bisexuals. They were presented in William Burleson’s book Bi America: Myths, Truths and Struggles

1. Bisexuals are easy: they are indiscriminate about whom they have sex with.

2. Bisexuals are swingers.

3. Bisexuals are unable to commit to either gender.

4. Bisexual men are all married guys cheating on their wives.

5. Bisexuality I just a phase on the way to being lesbian or gay.

6. Bisexuals are unable to be happy, have low self-esteem or are mentally ill.

7. Bisexuals are disease carriers.

8. Bisexuals are a very small part of the population.

9. Bisexuals are just trying to maintain heterosexual privilege.

10. Bisexuals can’t be feminist.

11. People call themselves bisexual to be trendy.

12. Bisexuality is a choice.
 

MisterB

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I appreciate your response. I now have a much better idea of where you were coming from. I also went back and reread your post #121 which I commented to you about. In post #121, you were very general. Here there are a few specifics. My comments are embedded below in your response.

Hilarious that you accuse me of offering anecdote after a rather lengthy string of anecdotes. This man's anecdotes are this man's life experiences. Some are funny; some not so much. And my goodness, they should be a lengthy string--I'm 64! I've been doing this gay schtick of mine for 45 years. And I think I've kinda mastered it.

The fact is that bisexuality was NOT discussed socially in the 40s and 50s and 60s in this culture, outside of clinical circles. Here is your first nongeneralization that the "gay community did this, the gay community did that". I agree with this specific point. Sex in general (no pun intended) was not discussed socially during this time frame. "Nice people" didn't talk like that. Could this repression be related to the Sexual Revolution of the mid to late 60's? That has to be considered in any gay rights movement; some of our biggest allies were the straight "flower children". And don't forget our PFLAG allies.

It became discussed more with the advent of the gay rights movement... and the plain fact is that you can READ articles written during that era and routinely see bisexuality characterized as gay men in denial or transition. Gay rights movement is more specific than the gay community. There were far fewer activists than the general gay community, which was your earlier point of reference. You attributed the actions of some to paint us all with the same broad brush. That's my issue, in a nutshell. But, now I'm starting to see where you are coming from. However, looking back 45-60 years ago through today's lenses can tend to cloud ones perspective. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...back then, discussion of sex, period, was not the norm. It is today. Funny what happens when we get this bogeyman shit out of the dark and into the light.

The fact is the OP gives anecdote that the woman HE loved had this exact same prejudice. It's an anecdote to you and me; it's his experience. What concerned me about the OP was getting only his side/version of the drama.


Where the hell do you think SHE got this idea? Have no idea; I'm not her. Don't have her life experiences. Seems to have caught the OP quite by surprise too!

I invite you to try the OKCUPID experiment I outline in my previous post. You can conduct your OWN randomized survey in that way- because I HAVE- that would NOT be anecdotal- but I am pretty sure you won't bother to actually research it because I am pretty sure you know what you would find. I've been monogamously coupled for 40 years; married for a little more than 3. I'm not one to place/peruse personal ads for anything sexual. Just not me. So, I'll just have to take your anecdote for what it is--your experience. But I have bought and sold goods (no services) on E-bay.

Percentage of men willing to date a woman with bisexual experience? 85%
Percentage of women willing to date men with bisexual experience? 6% ( in women over age 40- percentages get a bit better as the age group gets younger)

Sorry but your personal experience means very little. That's OK; I get why it means very little to you. But I can assure you my personal experience means everything to me. It's made me who I am. You know that great Jerry Herman song "I Am What I Am" from LaCage? It's my anthem. And it needs no excuses.

The gay activist community forwarded a narrative of being gay that they thought would push thru liberalized laws and more equal treatment. Really and for true- there are books written by these activists that explain their rationales. I am thankful for these activists and their pushing to get laws, liberal or conservative or anywhere in between, that paved the way for greater equality and ultimately, the ability to marry. If it was writing a book or protesting or marching in a gay pride parade or hosting a drag brunch in traditionally straight venues, then yay for them! Whatever it took. And, I'm certainly not going to argue with, or even worse, condemn the results. I, along with many many of my friends, did everything we could to help. My husband and I still do today. We've still got hurdles to overcome.

They really did believe that bisexual men were just gay men raised in a homophobic culture that were coming to grips with their real desires...
and that theory was embraced on the clinical world, as well. Who is they? The gay community or the activists? I'm fairly well educated and certainly been around the block a time or two, but I've not heard that nugget before. Now I can't wait to learn why I'm gay. Conceived by two raging heterosexuals; raised with both parents in the home (they were married 66 years!); two older jock brothers. Care to 'splain what happened here?

Bit the fact that more men are okay with bisexual women, than women who are okay with bisexual men proves conclusively that there is a cultural belief about bisexual MEN that is not the same as belief about bisexual women. My life experiences seem to bear this out too. But it begs the question--why do you think this bias exists? Why would more men be okay with two women messing around? Could it be because it's a fantasy of straight men? Or gay men? Or bi-sexual men? Who cares? Sleep with whomever floats your boat. I've known gay guys that slept with women, lesbians that slept with men. I didn't care. Not my business, cuz I was busy getting my own! And I really can't remember anyone else in my circle that did either. Anecdotal, I know!

I can't speak about why women are less okay about two guys messing around cuz I'm not a woman. But for the record, I'm okay with two guys messing around.


Bisexual women are seen as more fluid in their sexuality, and more likely to revert to heterosexual relationships. By whom? I can't speak to that cuz I'm not a woman. Or a straight or bi-sexual man. This gay man don't care.

Bisexual men are still largely seen as gay men passing as straight. By whom? Society in general? You? I don't see bisexual men as any different than any other sexual being. Again, I don't care who sleeps with who. Or who is bisexual. Or who can pass as straight. Or can't pass as straight. I'm much too busy living my life.


That prejudice is there. I didn't make it up... and you fail to explain it. My anecdotal life experiences don't allow me to draw this conclusion. I can't explain what I've not experienced. You are the one who presents more as bi-sexual than my 100% gay ass. And you know what? That's really great. No, it's fucking great. Cuz we get but one pony ride on this merry-go-round called life. You be all you can be and I'll be all I can be. Ain't life grand? Cheers!
 

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Links to the “campaign” please. Such a successful campaign run by gay activists that shaped how the world views bisexuality - must be tons of stuff in the media, pamphlets flying off the gay press, social media buzz, maybe medical articles from the gay medical establishment? Let's see it. Cos it's strange that I've lived all my life among gay men and women and don't think I've heard a single one deny the existence of bisexuality.

I think the mistake he's making, is that when he says "Bisexual men are still largely seen as gay men passing as straight." He's conflating that some gay men do indeed start off the coming out journey by initially claiming the bi label, that is what I read from his later arguments to some extent, and the other part was not appreciating how many different factions and flavours the LGBT rights' movement (just like every other civil rights movement had, Malcolm X/Martin Luther King, look at all the different varieties of feminism that were out there etc) had. There were huge amounts of different strains of thought, it was disingenous to put such a hefty focus on gay men. It is true that some gay men do their coming out journey that way, but I think it shows an unintentional lack of understanding for gay men's experiences on his part.

The hardest part of self-realisation for myself was admitting same sex desire, so that's why I told a handful of people at a point where I frankly wasn't yet ready to come out yet, and still mainly in the closet that I was attracted to men, but not ready to embrace the gay label. I had got over the self-realisation of homoerotic desire, but wasn't ready to accept myself Not all of us are able to make the leap initially when we are younger, and the thing is being in your late teens and early twenties. That does tend to be a point of your life where you massively care about what other people think of you, so you are looking for any perceived "softer" landing into it, before making the next leap later to say you are exclusively attracted to men. I'm not suggesting by that, that it is any easier to be bisexual than gay as a man, nor that it is easier to come out as gay or bisexual as a man.

But I think if he has come across a few gay men thinking that way, of course it is because they are falsely conflating their life experiences with his. But even that tends to be done (though probably not in all cases) on a case by case basis, not as a blanket preconceived notion that there are no male bisexuals, which is how he infers it (I've never met a gay guy that suggests that personally in my life). I personally didn't initially have the guts that someone like @MisterB had. I did that because intuitive straight friends of mine picked up a vibe from me, and tried to coax me out the closet at a point where I wasn't ready for it. I think they were well meaning and empathetic, but didn't quite grasp how challenging that was for me. Dante's old line: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". I personally made the leap to confess my true orientation three years later and came out to everyone, If I could turn back the clock, I would have just said to that straight friend when I was 19 and deeply closeted, "yes, I am gay. But I need to come out in my own time. I am not yet ready for it." Perhaps, there are straight people out there that witnessed a similar coming out progression from gay men they've known on a personal level, and conflate that to be the case every time. But gay men who do do it this way, are not doing it to deny bisexual men's sexual reality or the genuineness of their identity. I do frankly feel a bit guilty, if that is the way it comes across. And frankly I've seen way more straight people jump to rush to the conclusion that a man is gay, if they see him fooling around with a guy, than I see with gay people. I've seen this happen to male friends and colleagues of mine, the others weren't entertaining the notion that they were either experimenting or bi. If you see some straight people doing this, frankly it's their fault. I can apologise for doing it the way I did to a certain extent, but I'm not taking responsibility for a straight person (or anyone else for that matter) seeing my experience and projecting that onto another man's experience. That is their business.

Another factor that I think he is ignoring is the impact of toxic masculinity. This is highly wound up with homophobia and also bisexual erasure, when it is directed at men. Homophobia is often a large part of this. A man does this, a man must be aggressive, a man must treat women like sexual conquests, a man must never sleep with men, a man must not show his emotional side. @Phil Ayesho this isn't something gay men did, this is something straight men did and a heteronormative society endorsed it. We come off on the rough end of this as much as you do (because we both experience homophobia), and even straight guys come off on the wrong end of this sometimes too (though usually for other reasons). This is the main reason in my opinion, why non-heterosexual orientations in men, get treated differently than they do in women's cases. It is keenly related to gender stereotyping. As has been stated beforehand, perhaps the reason why it is easier for bisexual women to be accepted, is that F/F sex is fetishised by a lot of straight guys. I honestly think you are ignoring the role toxic masculinity plays in this, and that impression comes from how much of a focus you are placing on gay men for this. But also, having known both lesbians and bisexual women in my social circles, I've seen that hurt them too. So many female friends of mine who are LGBT, talk about how unpleasant it is when they see a straight woman that they're really into, show some interest solely to get a straight man's attention. They might be accepted as being bisexual in a way more than bisexual men are, but I have seen them feel extremely hurt because they're feeling like being toyed with for selfish reasons.

I can empathise with you on why you feel so frustrated on being dismissed. It is wrong. But don't dismiss another LGBT man's experiences, the vast majority of us welcome you into our big tent as equally valid members of the LGBT community. Like @MisterB said we keep adding letters to the acronym to try to display that everyone is welcome.
 

ItsAll4Kim

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Yeah.... that's exactly how the agenda was promoted....


Try and be real... I lived thru it. I can't tell you how many times I heard Gay activists and ordinary gay men state in media, over lunch, in social settings that a man who says he's bi is really a gay man in denial, or who has not yet come to full grips with his gay orientation.

The BELIEF was spread by a gay community that WANTED that to be true, because they wanted to believe that there were more gay men... it served their interests in normalizing homosexuality.


By the same token, the gay community ALSO propounds the belief that being gay is NOT A CHOICE... that people are exclusively 'born' gay. There is zero real proof of this... but they keep beating that drum, too, for a reason... namely, the thought that if folks are born that way then they can't change it, and they imagine this is an argument against the notion that being gay is a disease, a mental aberration, or something to be "cured".

In truth that's a weak argument because scoliosis is something you can be born with, and we still treat it as a disability and treat it.


Only recently has the validity of genuinely bi orientations begun being accepted, within the queer community...

But the vast majority of straight people today still buy into the narrative they heard growing up... that men who claim to be bi will eventually admit to being entirely gay.


Go on OK Cupid- one of their questions is whether you would date someone with same sex experience.
Answer it and then you can see how hetero women answered the question and it will be eye opening for you to see how many women would Never date a guy who is bi.


Very young women who were raised in a world where bisexuality is accepted as valid are often okay with it... but the older the women... the higher a percentage would never date a bi guy.

Still waiting for evidence to support what amounts to an opinion stated as if it was fact.

And you're doubling down on it by adding that the gay community is claiming people are only born 100% gay?

But mostly I want to see some proof of a campaign. You said this happened. That you lived through it.
 
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LittleBuzzSaw

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She sounds mental. This is going to be harsh, but don’t look back. You shouldn’t be with someone that vindictive over your open honesty about your feelings and who you are. Lift your head (maybe even a glass), and carry on with confidence in who you are. If someone doesn’t accept ALL of who you are, they aren’t worth your caring or your attention.
 
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Phil Ayesho's posts are always interesting and thought-provoking even when he's being a bit bonkers imo. So it's got me thinking and reading a bit more on the subject.

I do agree that there is such a thing as bi erasure and it's probably true that bisexual interests have been subsumed in much more visible gay sociopolitical activism. I'm not aware of any conscious campaign by gays to appropriate bisexuality to swell our ranks or promote our “agenda” (whatever the fuck that is) so I think he's just wrong to lay that all at our door.

But it may well be the case that there's been an unconscious collusion between the dominant sexual identity groups (straight and gay), out of common interests, to suppress and as it were erase bisexual identity.

There's a very interesting article by a gay academic on this topic, laying out the reasons for this and the areas of investment and self-interest behind it. Well worth a read imo.

http://www.kenjiyoshino.com/articles/epistemiccontract.pdf

Here's the main argument:

“In Part I, I demonstrate that bisexuality is invisible relative to homosexuality and that this invisibility is better explained by bisexual erasure than by bisexual nonexistence. After defining bisexual invisibility, I show that bisexuals (under any plausible definition of bisexuality) are much less socially and politically visible than homosexuals.... this is a product of social erasure.

Having demonstrated erasure in Part I, I seek to explain it in Part II. I suggest that erasure occurs because the two dominant sexual orientation groups--self-identified straights and self-identified gays-- have shared investments in that erasure. It is as if these two groups, despite their other virulent disagreements, have agreed that bisexuals will be made invisible. I call this the epistemic contract of bisexual erasure. To support the existence of such a contract, I adduce evidence that self-identified straights and self-identified gays both deploy the same three strategies of bisexual erasure: class erasure, individual erasure, and delegitimation.

In Part III, I describe the investments that both self-identified straights and self-identified gays have in bisexual erasure. These are: (1) an interest in stabilizing sexual orientation; (2) an interest in retaining sex as a dominant metric of differentiation; and (3) an interest in defending norms of monogamy. I disaggregate each interest into its three components: (1) the component shared by both straights and gays; (2) the component held only by straights; and (3) the component held only by gays.”

But it's very much a contract or collusion between straight and gay, as you'd expect.