Relationship ended thanks to being bi.

[ronin001]

I get you man now and of course it is important to mention the course of responses she went down did take on a homophobic flavour.

I think it is important for me to bring up one vital factor in my back story, so people think I'm being less of an arsehole to people.

@AlteredEgo and @EllieP. To AlteredEgo, I know why you have the viewpoint, because I know about your backstory, so I know this is coming from a place of emotional self-preservation, that is totally understandable. So I get you would only date heterosexual men, it's to protect yourself. I also know that you understand how horrible the closet is, and you have felt this on a vicarious level. But I think sometimes you guys forget one crucial factor, not everyone's identity and behaviour match all the time, though this definitely the case with the vast majority of people. I used to think that someone's label regarding their sexuality was always a complete match to what they do in their sex lives. I do not think that anymore, and that too comes from a place of self-preservation. Because wherever consensual sexual activity takes place, so too unfortunately does non-consensual sexual activity. I learnt this the hard way, when I put my guard down against the wrong older creepy male colleague, and I have opened up about this on this site beforehand. Assuming he was straight (because that's what he told me) made me think I was safe, so the thought that I could fall under his pervy sights never crossed my mind. The problem was that because he identified as straight, that set the tone for nearly every single reaction I received afterwards. Yes I sugarcoated things far too much, but nonetheless the obsession with his identity that other people had, really distressed me . This is why these topics can get me so heated up, because there often is an implication that identity and behaviour always match. The thing is you can never know what is lurking in another person's thought process or what their sexual fantasies are inside their own mind. No person is totally telepathic, even though some of us are very intuitive. Could he have been in the closet? Yeh obviously, that is fairly likely, but I have no idea, I could well have just been a random target coming from intellectual curiousity rather than prolonged desire, and frankly I don't give a fuck what the answer on that one is. That wasn't important to me, the fact that he was an entitled pervert was. This is why I sometimes get accidentally abrasive on the topic, when I hear people taking such unwavering belief in the total accuracy of labels in all circumstances. That being said they certainly have their purpose, as in the case of LGBT rights.

No problem, Sadly I write at the end of my day and I should at times review and tweek thinks a little, before I hit sent. If only to clarify a few things. Sorry If my original post bid not come off as I had intended

Ro

 

[RamblingCock]

Wow. This thread exploded over night, and great to see a solid debate occurring.

Just a few days ago I covered gender fluidity, a related topic, in the blog. One of a number of entries dealing with sexuality and bisexuality I've posted. I've been rather open (both here and there) about being bisexual since college, but being in a committed marriage with a woman I am unwilling to express that side of my orientation. I've been living a straight life aside from a very occasional handjob from a guy during a massage. I'm married to a woman, therefore I'm a practicing straight.

Mentally, however, I'm still bi. And yes, Mr Ayedo, it's an orientation not a choice. I can choose to express it or not, but the orientation is still there.

Let me ask you this: If a gay man discovers he likes sex with women is he now straight in your book? That would be the logical conclusion given your statement that a straight man who likes sex with men must be gay. Or are we only sexually definable in the moment. The last person I had sex with was XXX, so therefore I'm now YYY?

Yes, there is a lot of detailed explanation previously, and it's a good debate, as I noted. But much as the much larger topic of gender fluidity is a moving target, so is the nature of bisexuality. I can confidently state that it is not a choice, and it certainly isn't trendy, nor was it thirty years ago when I was in college.

But if you believe, as Kinsey did, that sex is a spectrum not a binary, then the immediate assertion that Bi people are defacto gay not only misses the mark but the entire target altogether. It's simplistic and narrow.

Again, sorry I'm so late to the table, but you gys kept talking while I slept.

 

[englad]

No problem, Sadly I write at the end of my day and I should at times review and tweek thinks a little, before I hit sent. If only to clarify a few things. Sorry If my original post bid not come off as I had intended

Ro

No ronin, you have a wonderful heart. I have really fucked up in this thread too, and I apologise if anyone took the tone of many of my posts personally and if I were coming across as abrasive and harsh, I know where you were coming from now. I can understand why people felt the OP had ulterior motives based on other linguistic cues they picked up and based on their life experiences, and I completely understand the value of honesty in a committed relationship. I know also that some people write threads looking for sympathy in a slanted manner and there are indeed two sides to every story, especially in monogamous relationships (regardless of the sex of the individuals).

There were some posts on here that I wrote that were intended for a general audience, rather than specific individuals, but they did not register that way. Just there are sometimes I feel like I have to keep reminding some people on the site about, like the identity/label thing not matching 100% the time. And I made one fucked up post at a moment where I wasn't able to think straight, that was unintentionally deeply insensitive and I have personally apologised to that user for it. I do not care who anyone else dates, especially if I don't have a dog in the fight. As long as we remember to respect each other's human dignity, that is the only thing that matters. But just to clarify:

I have frankly been a bit of an emotional wreck over the last few days, especially yesterday, little bit better right now, but now it is more cathartic emotional now, instead of angry or distressed emotional, as I was earlier. The specific parts that triggered me were to a large extent irrational, but it was a general flavour of overt label obsession and homophobic stereotyping I picked up (rightly or wrongly). Both of those relate to the experience that I shared in the post you have quoted. The former because that was related to practically every single reaction I received for the first four years after that (with the exception of two survivors, one male and one female), when frankly it did not matter in the slightest. The latter because frankly the guy was two decades older than me and far less physically attractive (that's objective fact, not suggesting I'm an adonis), and there is a homophobic stereotype going out there that every single gay and bisexual person is attracted to every member of the same sex (this affects both gay/bisexual men and women). I know the reasons why people were focussing on labels in the context of this thread, and I know why people were identifying with the ex-girlfriend's perspective. @MisterB in my opinion needs to be given props for having the best balanced analysis of the thread. But I can't help being emotionally triggered by that, because it directly ties in with my personal experiences. Frankly though I am not bi, even bisexual erasure turned up in the reactions I received because they kept asking if he were gay, again I just couldn't give a fuck about the answer (and for what it's worth he had emigrated abandoning his wife and children). I've only tried to emotionally come to turns with that in the last 6 weeks or so (this was originally brought up in a disabled parody thread when counter-attacking a deeply misogynistic troll, not the healthiest route to deal with trauma, but I guess I had to one way or the other), because beforehand I was just putting in a bunch of emotional self-defence mechanisms.

So I really appreciate you for being so empathetic and considerate. I think the sad truth is there are so many people out there who just bury their own problems, and I will never understand the cultural value we place on doing that in the English speaking world and throughout Northern Europe in particular.

And also there were other posters who did accidentally rub me up the wrong way, I won't embarass her by tagging her in again, but suffice to say it is not good for a 100% poster to say they don't have to mention their sexuality. People like me just don't have that luxury. But the more we listen to each other, the better things will be. Take care and thank you

All of us fuck up from time to time, but I honestly think there are a lot of wonderful people on the thread here.

 

[MisterB]

I'm gonna have to add my 2 cents here too. Just gotta...

Yeah.... that's exactly how the agenda was promoted.... Seriously? This is what you came back with when questioned by @ItsAll4Kim? Um, NO. Nothing to support your repeated sweeping generalizations. Period.


Try and be real... I lived thru it. I can't tell you how many times I heard Gay activists and ordinary gay men state in media, over lunch, in social settings that a man who says he's bi is really a gay man in denial, or who has not yet come to full grips with his gay orientation. I'm real; lived through it too. Your anecdotal experience does NOT match my anecdotal experience. Not one bit. And since when has the media not promoted sensationalism? Who's gonna tune in to watch a non-stereotypical homosexual be interviewed? Not as many who want to see the flamboyant drag queens or the leather daddies or the topless Lesbians marching in gay pride parades. How many times are those folks interviewed compared to the PFLAG participants? Or the gay mens chorus?

As the OP said in post #100 "When I started dating her, I hadn't accepted myself yet. I had struggled for years with it. I grew up in a conservative household with a mother who has only negative things to say about bisexual people. I felt so much shame for the things I started to feel in my late teens. Finally embracing that label helped me shed a lot of that. Labels can be problematic, but they work for some people. It's helped me be ok with these attractions."

OP clearly states his angst was caused in large part by his mother, whom I will assume for this discussion to be straight. Kinda tragic to feel shamed by a parent. While there may be some gay folks who have issues with bi-sexuality, I believe bi-sexuality to be more negatively seen by the straight community. At least that's been my personal experience. You know, anecdotal.

The BELIEF was spread by a gay community that WANTED that to be true, because they wanted to believe that there were more gay men... it served their interests in normalizing homosexuality. Nope. This is simply YOUR BELIEF. You have provided no evidence to support such a blanket statement. Like I said in my Post #128, no, there was no campaign, per se, other than the fact that our objective, from the earliest days of the gay rights movement, such as Stonewall, was for acceptance of LGBTQ folks as just other people. Equal treatment. Parity. Period.


By the same token, the gay community ALSO propounds the belief that being gay is NOT A CHOICE... that people are exclusively 'born' gay. There is zero real proof of this... but they keep beating that drum, too, for a reason... namely, the thought that if folks are born that way then they can't change it, and they imagine this is an argument against the notion that being gay is a disease, a mental aberration, or something to be "cured". Sometimes I can be naive as shit. But not about my sexuality. I knew at 19 that I was gay. I knew it intrinsically. I didn't pick it; it was not a choice. I was Born This Way. Being gay is not a disease that can be cured any more than I can be cured of being 6 feet tall or having green eyes. Not to mention it's widely accepted within the scientific community that being gay is NOT A CHOICE. Stating that it's somehow a choice is just plain IGNORANT. However, one can choose whether to act on his/her inherent feelings.

I'm realistic about life, especially how being gay ain't always easy. I've endured my share of discrimination. I'm a privileged White Male. Why the fuck would I choose to be gay, knowing the hardships and struggles I could endure? Especially given that I came out in 1973. If it were a choice, wouldn't I have taken the path of least resistance--100% straight male? So, MY ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCES completely negate your bullshit theory.

So then, how the hell did I turn out to be a complete and utter homosexual? Conceived by two raging heterosexuals; raised with both parents in the home (they were married 66 years!); two older jock brothers. Care to 'splain what happened here?

Maybe it's your choice to be bi-sexual? Or maybe you're just hard-wired like that, like I am 100% gay. Just the way mother nature rolls.

In truth that's a weak argument because scoliosis is something you can be born with, and we still treat it as a disability and treat it. Nah, you are conflating a physical malady with something that is internally intrinsic. Since you made this comparison, why don't you tell us how effective gay conversion therapy is?


Only recently has the validity of genuinely bi orientations begun being accepted, within the queer community...No, not by the queer community, but my more and more in the straight community. Agreed. As I stated in post #128 "What I've seen over my vast "queer career" is that sexuality, especially in today's social media age, has become more transparent, and as a result, more normal now than ever. As a result, I think more people are comfortable in their own skins with their own sexuality at a younger and younger age; it's just not the issue it once was. Funny how more younger people than ever just don't give a shit about who you or they sleep with. Who would have thought we'd watch TV shows about helping "straight" guys dress better, or about gay dating, or bi-sexual dating, or about transgendered youth and their struggles, or how about drag racing that wasn't about cars? The more that's seen, the more the Who Gives A Shit becomes the norm. And let's not forget as more of this country's "dinosaurs" die off, their "replacements" are just not so "anti", pretty much about anything."

And I bet the majority of these accepting young people mirror the rest of society--they are straight. So yeah, progress is being made. Maybe not as fast as you and others may like, but it's progress none-the-less.

But the vast majority of straight people today still buy into the narrative they heard growing up... that men who claim to be bi will eventually admit to being entirely gay. This statement is exactly why I'm so confounded by your postings. Why I felt so offended. You started all this discussion with your blanket statement that its gay people who have caused bi-sexuals to be misunderstood. Now you state here its the vast majority of straight people, EVEN today, who still buy into the narrative they heard growing up. About bi-sexuals. Yep, that's what the OP said too about his upbringing and his mother's perspective on bi-sexuality.

Granted, some men do use bi-sexuality to transition to being fully gay. They were already gay; just not self-aware, or willing to admit it, or ready to come out for whatever reasons--societal pressures, familial pressures, shame, guilt, whatever. Like @englad, who has well-described his journey, which strikes me as not untypical. But then some who thought they were gay discovered they also like to have sex with women. Are these folks bi-sexual? Don't know and don't care, as what they do with whom is not my concern.

To me, who someone connects with physically and EMOTIONALLY, is what matters. Whatever label you want to place on that is fine with me. Just so the two people involved are on the same page, unlike the OP and his girlfriend. They weren't even looking at the same book.


Go on OK Cupid- one of their questions is whether you would date someone with same sex experience.
Answer it and then you can see how hetero women answered the question and it will be eye opening for you to see how many women would Never date a guy who is bi. As I responded previously, not my thing. I'll take your word for it.


Very young women who were raised in a world where bisexuality is accepted as valid are often okay with it... but the older the women... the higher a percentage would never date a bi guy. Yep, younger people are becoming more accepting about a lot of issues, not just sexuality. Look at the number of younger folks in mixed-race relationships; in non-heteronormative relationships. Look how advertisers now use historically non-traditional TV spots to ply their wares; gay and lesbian couples with/without children and/or pets, mixed-race couples with bi-racial children. Just watch HGTV if you want to see that variety is truly the spice of life.

How about the uproar all that's caused in certain segments of our society? Remember the Cheerios commercial from a few years ago that got so much flak; the mixed-race couple with the bi-racial daughter? Remember the boycott calls by certain factions of society? I do. Last I checked, Cheerios is still in business.

Now, its become more normal to see, and doesn't seem to concern most of us. Or how these young people now choose to express their sexuality and gender fluidity. Maybe what we are seeing is the Sexual Revolution 2.0 coupled with a Cultural Revolution. I don't know. But I do know that today, one can pretty much be who one wants/needs to be. And that's a good thing.

Cheers!

 

[Beelzebub]

So basically you’re saying that the guy should have kept quiet about his bisexuality so he wouldn’t upset his girlfriend. That’s a pretty huge secret to keep from someone you love. Why not just tell her and talk about it afterwards? That’s the rational, adult way of handling things. If she doesn’t understand his viewpoint, that’s on her. He didn’t do anything wrong by being honest. First you totally misread the original post, then you give sketchy advice that condones lying. Also, you have an irritating habit of putting question marks at the ends of sentences that aren’t questions. Just saying.

Guess I learned that when writing a question it is followed by a question mark? Just saying. Just saying is an irritating habit also. Block me if you are annoyed by me.

 

[ItsAll4Kim]

I'm very curious where you're seeing these. As I said before, any pics of me with someone the time we were together are with her.

First page of your album. Posted 5 or so weeks ago, right when you said you ended the relationship.

 

[someotherguy]

First page of your album. Posted 5 or so weeks ago, right when you said you ended the relationship.

And if you look at my post giving the date I ended it and look at the date the pics were posted, you'd see that they were from days after.

 

[ronin001]

No ronin, you have a wonderful heart. I have really fucked up in this thread too, and I apologise if anyone took the tone of many of my posts personally and if I were coming across as abrasive and harsh, I know where you were coming from now. I can understand why people felt the OP had ulterior motives based on other linguistic cues they picked up and based on their life experiences, and I completely understand the value of honesty in a committed relationship. I know also that some people write threads looking for sympathy in a slanted manner and there are indeed two sides to every story, especially in monogamous relationships (regardless of the sex of the individuals).

There were some posts on here that I wrote that were intended for a general audience, rather than specific individuals, but they did not register that way. Just there are sometimes I feel like I have to keep reminding some people on the site about, like the identity/label thing not matching 100% the time. And I made one fucked up post at a moment where I wasn't able to think straight, that was unintentionally deeply insensitive and I have personally apologised to that user for it. I do not care who anyone else dates, especially if I don't have a dog in the fight. As long as we remember to respect each other's human dignity, that is the only thing that matters. But just to clarify:

I have frankly been a bit of an emotional wreck over the last few days, especially yesterday, little bit better right now, but now it is more cathartic emotional now, instead of angry or distressed emotional, as I was earlier. The specific parts that triggered me were to a large extent irrational, but it was a general flavour of overt label obsession and homophobic stereotyping I picked up (rightly or wrongly). Both of those relate to the experience that I shared in the post you have quoted. The former because that was related to practically every single reaction I received for the first four years after that (with the exception of two survivors, one male and one female), when frankly it did not matter in the slightest. The latter because frankly the guy was two decades older than me and far less physically attractive (that's objective fact, not suggesting I'm an adonis), and there is a homophobic stereotype going out there that every single gay and bisexual person is attracted to every member of the same sex (this affects both gay/bisexual men and women). I know the reasons why people were focussing on labels in the context of this thread, and I know why people were identifying with the ex-girlfriend's perspective. @MisterB in my opinion needs to be given props for having the best balanced analysis of the thread. But I can't help being emotionally triggered by that, because it directly ties in with my personal experiences. Frankly though I am not bi, even bisexual erasure turned up in the reactions I received because they kept asking if he were gay, again I just couldn't give a fuck about the answer (and for what it's worth he had emigrated abandoning his wife and children). I've only tried to emotionally come to turns with that in the last 6 weeks or so (this was originally brought up in a disabled parody thread when counter-attacking a deeply misogynistic troll, not the healthiest route to deal with trauma, but I guess I had to one way or the other), because beforehand I was just putting in a bunch of emotional self-defence mechanisms.

So I really appreciate you for being so empathetic and considerate. I think the sad truth is there are so many people out there who just bury their own problems, and I will never understand the cultural value we place on doing that in the English speaking world and throughout Northern Europe in particular.

And also there were other posters who did accidentally rub me up the wrong way, I won't embarass her by tagging her in again, but suffice to say it is not good for a 100% poster to say they don't have to mention their sexuality. People like me just don't have that luxury. But the more we listen to each other, the better things will be. Take care and thank you

All of us fuck up from time to time, but I honestly think there are a lot of wonderful people on the thread here.

 

[shard38]

Phil Ayesho's posts are always interesting and thought-provoking even when he's being a bit bonkers imo. So it's got me thinking and reading a bit more on the subject.

I do agree that there is such a thing as bi erasure and it's probably true that bisexual interests have been subsumed in much more visible gay sociopolitical activism. I'm not aware of any conscious campaign by gays to appropriate bisexuality to swell our ranks or promote our “agenda” (whatever the fuck that is) so I think he's just wrong to lay that all at our door.

But it may well be the case that there's been an unconscious collusion between the dominant sexual identity groups (straight and gay), out of common interests, to suppress and as it were erase bisexual identity.

There's a very interesting article by a gay academic on this topic, laying out the reasons for this and the areas of investment and self-interest behind it. Well worth a read imo.

http://www.kenjiyoshino.com/articles/epistemiccontract.pdf

Here's the main argument:

“In Part I, I demonstrate that bisexuality is invisible relative to homosexuality and that this invisibility is better explained by bisexual erasure than by bisexual nonexistence. After defining bisexual invisibility, I show that bisexuals (under any plausible definition of bisexuality) are much less socially and politically visible than homosexuals.... this is a product of social erasure.

Having demonstrated erasure in Part I, I seek to explain it in Part II. I suggest that erasure occurs because the two dominant sexual orientation groups--self-identified straights and self-identified gays-- have shared investments in that erasure. It is as if these two groups, despite their other virulent disagreements, have agreed that bisexuals will be made invisible. I call this the epistemic contract of bisexual erasure. To support the existence of such a contract, I adduce evidence that self-identified straights and self-identified gays both deploy the same three strategies of bisexual erasure: class erasure, individual erasure, and delegitimation.

In Part III, I describe the investments that both self-identified straights and self-identified gays have in bisexual erasure. These are: (1) an interest in stabilizing sexual orientation; (2) an interest in retaining sex as a dominant metric of differentiation; and (3) an interest in defending norms of monogamy. I disaggregate each interest into its three components: (1) the component shared by both straights and gays; (2) the component held only by straights; and (3) the component held only by gays.”

But it's very much a contract or collusion between straight and gay, as you'd expect.

Didn’t read the whole article (yet) but isn’t it a bit far fetched to see the invisibility of bisexuals as a collusion? Isn’t there also the quite practical “problem” of binary assumption? I’ve never made a secret of being bi, but it’s not a subject I immediately bring up in conversation. So when I’m in a relationship with a woman, most people I encounter are going to assume I’m straight. It would be a bit strange to tell everyone: “Yes, this is my girlfriend. But if we ever break up my next partner could be a man...” Only people who are close to me or have known me for years have seen me with both male and female partners know I’m bi.

It’s the same with bisexual porn. It’s always a threesome because a one on one encounter doesn’t show anything bisexual.

 

[328982]

Didn’t read the whole article (yet) but isn’t it a bit far fetched to see the invisibility of bisexuals as a collusion? Isn’t there also the quite practical “problem” of binary assumption? I’ve never made a secret of being bi, but it’s not a subject I immediately bring up in conversation. So when I’m in a relationship with a woman, most people I encounter are going to assume I’m straight. It would be a bit strange to tell everyone: “Yes, this is my girlfriend. But if we ever break up my next partner could be a man...” Only people who are close to me or have known me for years have seen me with both male and female partners know I’m bi.

It’s the same with bisexual porn. It’s always a threesome because a one on one encounter doesn’t show anything bisexual.

I think binary assumption is certainly a part of it, it's discussed in the article. I found it quite eye-opening and persuasive on the further reasons/strategies for bisexual erasure. As someone who is technically bisexual but has always identified as gay, it gave me food for thought anyway.

 

[ItsAll4Kim]

And if you look at my post giving the date I ended it and look at the date the pics were posted, you'd see that they were from days after.

Days. Days! Wow, you must have been crushed by the breakup to wait entire days to find that guy, hook up, and post that picture.

Hey, it's your life and you should live it as you want. But you say the relationship ended *because you are bi*. It is sounding a lot more that it ended because your girlfriend sensed you weren't likely to be faithful to her. Jumping right into some "fun" immediately after the breakup gives the impression that it was an itch you could hardly wait to scratch, which makes it seem unlikely you would stay faithful to her long term. It seemed odd to me that she was okay with your sexuality for almost a year, then was triggered by your desire to simply tell other close friends about it. There's more to this, that you either don't see, or aren't telling us. It doesn't add up that she'd just cruise along knowing you are bi, then flip the fuck out over you wanting to talk about it. What am I missing?

In the end this is good (ending the relationship), because you should probably give thought to seeking partners with willingness to be in an open relationship.

 

[someotherguy]

Days. Days! Wow, you must have been crushed by the breakup to wait entire days to find that guy, hook up, and post that picture.

Hey, it's your life and you should live it as you want. But you say the relationship ended *because you are bi*. It is sounding a lot more that it ended because your girlfriend sensed you weren't likely to be faithful to her. Jumping right into some "fun" immediately after the breakup gives the impression that it was an itch you could hardly wait to scratch, which makes it seem unlikely you would stay faithful to her long term. It seemed odd to me that she was okay with your sexuality for almost a year, then was triggered by your desire to simply tell other close friends about it. There's more to this, that you either don't see, or aren't telling us. It doesn't add up that she'd just cruise along knowing you are bi, then flip the fuck out over you wanting to talk about it. What am I missing?

In the end this is good (ending the relationship), because you should probably give thought to seeking partners with willingness to be in an open relationship.

You accused me of cheating and I was simply pointing out that it wasn't the case. Yes, I accepted an opportunity to hook up with an old friend (I didn't "find a guy". If you look through my pics you'll see it's someone I've hooked up with before.) to get my mind off things. Judge me for doing that so soon all you want. The issue I'm seeing is that you have preconceptions about bisexual people being promiscuous and cheaters that no one can convince you are wrong. It's all you've said in this thread and it's not my job to argue that point with you. Have a nice day.

 

[englad]

I think binary assumption is certainly a part of it, it's discussed in the article. I found it quite eye-opening and persuasive on the further reasons/strategies for bisexual erasure. As someone who is technically bisexual but has always identified as gay, it gave me food for thought anyway.

Didn’t read the whole article (yet) but isn’t it a bit far fetched to see the invisibility of bisexuals as a collusion? Isn’t there also the quite practical “problem” of binary assumption? I’ve never made a secret of being bi, but it’s not a subject I immediately bring up in conversation. So when I’m in a relationship with a woman, most people I encounter are going to assume I’m straight. It would be a bit strange to tell everyone: “Yes, this is my girlfriend. But if we ever break up my next partner could be a man...” Only people who are close to me or have known me for years have seen me with both male and female partners know I’m bi.

It’s the same with bisexual porn. It’s always a threesome because a one on one encounter doesn’t show anything bisexual.

Guys I made a really long post, but it is a few hundred characters over the 10000 limit, so I will try to go into a surmise of some additional thoughts I have on the topic. I have only read the first few pages of it thus far. But I think part of the problem is linguistic, etymological and related to the way we have actually oriented the labels too. And I have alternative suggestions that might be more appropriate, specifically that instead of focussing orientations on the sex of the individual, they could be better focused on the sex and/or gender identities of the people they are attracted too. I can happily go into further detail. The alternative terms can be seen here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphilia_and_gynephilia

You see I would never use the term "homosexual" because it is way too clinical, it is just the word "gay" became irrevocably and inextricably linked with the word "homosexual" in the vast majority of people's minds. Even though gay is an identity label which I use for myself. Plus extra factors that I think are problematic is that the sexual attraction and romantic attraction people have is often conflated. The sex part is more heavily focussed on, but I think that is due to where the harsh penal laws were directed against.

The problem with the words "bisexual" and "homosexual" is etymological. They both emanate from a book called the Pyschopathia Sexualis written by Kraft-Ebbing and it is filled with the prejudices of the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathia_Sexualis_(book)

Obviously words can change meaning, but frankly it is a tad problematic that bisexual people can sometimes be denied a social label that doesn't come from a clinical place written in the late 19th century (though the term bisexuality is in one of his translations, not the original one written a few years earlier).


I still will use the label gay because it's easier for others to comprehend, and the definition I define my orientation as happens to fit homosexual in my case, but I think we started off with the labels trying to oversimplify the topic, then added stuff as an afterthought. In the case of both bisexuality and transgender people. I think the social label "gay" came with the best possible initial intentions, because it was to provide visibility to an oppressed group, and homophobia affects both. But it is interesting that you have two social labels, followed by a clinical term added as an afterthought, to describe three separate orientations regarding male sexuality specifically. I think the terms homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual used in isolation too, can cut out transgender issues. As even bisexual sometimes connotates to attraction to cisgendered people only, unlike the term pansexual.

So personally I think to a degree, there might be a good argument for moving towards describing all three sexual orientations as the following, based on which sexes (and/or gender identities) people are attracted to rather than focussing on the sex of the individual discussed (as I feel they could be more inclusive and also more global too, rather than purely western):

Androphilia - Sexual attraction to males or "masculinity"

Ambiphilia - Sexual attraction to both or a combination of both

Gynephilia - Sexual attraction to females or "feminity"

So for the case of total pedantry, to clarify my personal orientation (rather than my identity for a change) in these terms, it would be a:

Homoromantic androphile male that is attracted to homoromantic androphile males and homoromantic/biromantic ambiphile males. I wouldn't entertain the notion of messing around (even on a purely sexual level) with a heteroromantic ambiphile male, because I'm a human being not a walking dildo.

 

[RamblingCock]

As Captain Jack Harkness used to put it: "You people and your quaint little categories."

(Cheers to anyone who gets the character's origin.)

I'll go with Unisexual, Bisexual and Omnisexual.

Not to be confused with Unicycle...

 

[pants73]

Firstlly I Hope you are ok.
Anyway, you did the right thing to walk away. I can imagine how much you love her, but if she loves you she shouldn't tell you all that horrible things/words. You have been honest and it seems she is more confused than you. I am sure you have never cheated on her, or you were looking an excuse to get rid of her. She really did not understand you. Being Bi is someone like everyone else who likes both sides, but it doesn't deserve to be judged. I must say that you have been so brave to share your thoughts and open up to someone who you really car for.
Believe me it's her problem and you shouldn't feel sad, pity or shamed. You do have nothing to worry about it. It's more her problem than yours.
I have heard many times words like yours perhaps, 'you are disgusting, you will never find anyone, you are a faggot and so on'.
I don't care anymore, I am who I am.
These people believe to have the right to judge anyone and to feel open and modern.
Please mate, move on and out there it will be someone who will really love you and one day when this storm has passed over, you will look at this moment of your life in a different light.
If you need anything drop me a message.
Take care Mate.

It's been a while now so I think I can talk about this without it hurting too much. A little over a month ago, my relationship ended because I'm bi. I had told my girlfriend almost a year ago of my previous same sex experiences and that I do identify as bi. I assured her that I wasn't looking to hook up with a guy or dump her for one. No, I loved her and wanted to be with her. She said she was fine with it until almost two months ago when I told her I wanted to be more open about being bi with certain friends and within certain groups. I don't need everyone in my life to know, too much drama would be started, but I wanted to be able to share it with those I cared about and anyone who might be struggling with their own issues about their sexuality and to be able to go to this year's Pride parade and cheer people on while wearing a bi flag sticker or pin. I just wanted to be a little bit more visible and comfortable with it.

It was at this point where she lost it. She said that my wanting to be more open about it meant I wanted to have sex with men. She accused me of being gay and that she was my beard, that the thought of me being with a man made her want to throw up. I had no idea this would be her reaction. She seemed ok with it for almost a year. All she could talk about was how people would pity her and how everyone would think she was fooling herself being with a "gay" man. No matter what I said, she only saw it in terms of how it reflected on her.

For weeks after, we'd try to move past it when we saw each other but she'd inevitably bring it up and we'd fight again. I'd get texts from her demanding me to tell her I'm gay and to just get it over with. I reached my breaking point when I last went over to her place and she tore into me within minutes of me walking through the door. She said the most awful shit. I decided to end it then and there, I wasn't going to sit there and take it. As I was leaving, she made sure to tell me, "Good luck finding a girlfriend who's ok with you being gay because I highly doubt you'll ever find one." With that last jab at me, I left.

It's a shame because I did love her and we had been sketching out a future and kids together. I miss her and this still hurts but I know I did the right thing.

So was she ignoring the meaning of what I told her? Did me wanting to be more open about it make it real? Did her insecurities make her only focus on what other people would think?

 

[pengucat]

Being bi doesnt mean you cant be monogamous you troglodyte. Shame on you.

You fundamentally misunderstand everything about the bisexual experience, stereotype us, and have the audacity to boil down OP’s gf’s biphobic actions to having “healthy self esteem”.

You’re just biphobic. And myopic. Shame on you. Go read a fuckin book. Open your mind.

Newsflash, bisexuals can be monogamous and don’t require thoughts of “gay porn” every time they fuck. I know a shitload of straight men who admit to having thought of other women when having sex with their partner.
And yet when I fuck, I’m thinking of the other person. But sure, lump in all bisexuals as a bunch of gay dudes thinking of england with a dick while sleeping with their wives and girlfriends.
But make sure you preface that youre an asshole when you express that opinion.

Did the relationship really end because she was biphobic, homophobic, and insecure?, or did it end because she had healthy self-esteem?
Moving towards being more open, and more visible was all about you (which is fine, sometimes you've got to be selfish), but were you also considering getting one of those "I'm with stupid" t-shirts? It sounds like she got a bit shouty and mean by the end of the relationship, but I think that was because she must have genuinely had feelings for you and was just hurt by the fact that you were probably thinking about gay porn most of the time when you were with her, and trying to be visible for whatever reason you felt the need to do that. Neither of you were at fault here. You are just going through some stuff you need to go through I guess, but try to have some empathy for how it affected her. Had you been actively trying to trash her self-esteem you could not have done a better job.

If you are in a 100% monogamous relationship (gay or straight), and considering a full on house and kids scenario you need to be 100% in it together, which you weren't, and she had the good sense to end it.

 

[328982]

I wouldn't entertain the notion of messing around (even on a purely sexual level) with a heteroromantic ambiphile male, because I'm a human being not a walking dildo.

Good for you

 

[AlteredEgo]

Days. Days! Wow, you must have been crushed by the breakup to wait entire days to find that guy, hook up, and post that picture.

I sometimes like to nurse heartbreak under someone familiar and reliable. When I was younger, I sometimes sought out a new playmate to distract from stress or emotional turmoil.

 

[FleshFan69]

I agree, 100%.

I hate to sound like an old biddy, but I would also have a problem with my partner beginning to identify as a bisexual.

You're changing the dynamics of the relationship. I am a heterosexual. My husband has told me he is, too. If suddenly he tells me that he thinks he's bisexual then what happens to our legal agreement where we state to be faithful only to each other?

Stating a sexual preference other than what was originally agreed is stating that you have other sexual interests that are extracurricular, in other words, don't involve me.

You cannot deny who you are, but if you're not 100% up front with a partner from the start then don't be surprised if you surprise them.

I don't need to state my sexuality to anyone because I have no desire to have sex with them. So if you're in a committed relationship why do you feel it's necessary to state your sexuality if you have no intention on acting on it? Is it to be accepted by a group? Is that a rite of membership?

I wish I could see things from your point of view, but I'm afraid that like your ex, I can only see how things affect me.

 

[FleshFan69]

I'm sorry about the loss of your relationship and the pain you are experiencing at its ending. I'd like to offer my perspective. I'm approaching this with care and not cavalierly so hopefully, it can be of some service.

The operative part of the word sexuality is sex and the having of it. Mentioning it to her implies the admission and desire to have sex with men, which she is not so it immediately adds a dynamic that she didn't sign up for (even if consciously you think you have no intention of having sex with men). If you were intent on being in a committed, monogomous relationship with her you are essentially forever rescinding your ability to be with a man anyway until death do you part so it's a moot point to even bring it up.

You exacerbated the issue by bringing it up yet again (kicking the hornet's nest and creeping the closet door open a little wider) and enlarging the scope of it and basically telling her you'd like to come out as bi. She's now on a rollercoaster she didn't buy a ticket for. Where does that leave her? Answering questions from other people about you guys' sexual dynamics? Being asked, "Wow...How do you feel about that?" etc, etc. Is it unreasonable for her to think?: "...Wait...what's going on here??" It would seem like a slippery slope to me because it started out as something you've done in the past, then something you consider yourself to be and now (then) wanting to enlarge the scope even further.

It's the primordial dilemma with bisexual people, of which I consider myself to be: being in a monogamous relationship with a woman you love, then add to the mix the likely chances of finding a woman you love who also accepts your bisexuality or going the old-school route of forever having sex on the side and leading a double life. I struggle with that myself.
Whatever you choose mentioning it immediately at the beginning or not at all seem to me to be the only options. Unless you're into fluid, open relationships...

Some times, frankly, most of the time, we are navigating our lives in ways that we only partially understand consciously what motivates us and drives us. And we know even less when it comes to someone else's life. Both of these facts are fraught with ready-made fears, hopes, intentions, deceptions and insecurities for both parties - navigating them with awareness is the art of being in a relationship.

Thank you for reaching out to us and sharing.

It's been a while now so I think I can talk about this without it hurting too much. A little over a month ago, my relationship ended because I'm bi. I had told my girlfriend almost a year ago of my previous same sex experiences and that I do identify as bi. I assured her that I wasn't looking to hook up with a guy or dump her for one. No, I loved her and wanted to be with her. She said she was fine with it until almost two months ago when I told her I wanted to be more open about being bi with certain friends and within certain groups. I don't need everyone in my life to know, too much drama would be started, but I wanted to be able to share it with those I cared about and anyone who might be struggling with their own issues about their sexuality and to be able to go to this year's Pride parade and cheer people on while wearing a bi flag sticker or pin. I just wanted to be a little bit more visible and comfortable with it.

It was at this point where she lost it. She said that my wanting to be more open about it meant I wanted to have sex with men. She accused me of being gay and that she was my beard, that the thought of me being with a man made her want to throw up. I had no idea this would be her reaction. She seemed ok with it for almost a year. All she could talk about was how people would pity her and how everyone would think she was fooling herself being with a "gay" man. No matter what I said, she only saw it in terms of how it reflected on her.

For weeks after, we'd try to move past it when we saw each other but she'd inevitably bring it up and we'd fight again. I'd get texts from her demanding me to tell her I'm gay and to just get it over with. I reached my breaking point when I last went over to her place and she tore into me within minutes of me walking through the door. She said the most awful shit. I decided to end it then and there, I wasn't going to sit there and take it. As I was leaving, she made sure to tell me, "Good luck finding a girlfriend who's ok with you being gay because I highly doubt you'll ever find one." With that last jab at me, I left.

It's a shame because I did love her and we had been sketching out a future and kids together. I miss her and this still hurts but I know I did the right thing.

So was she ignoring the meaning of what I told her? Did me wanting to be more open about it make it real? Did her insecurities make her only focus on what other people would think?