Religion and homosexuality?

How many religious friends have turned on you after you revealed to then you were gay

  • 4

    Votes: 8 47.1%
  • 6

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • 7

    Votes: 7 41.2%

  • Total voters
    17

xiongmao

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Actually, if you interpret that one set of scriptures, it pretty much says it's a sin to cut your facial hair. It's still annoying, though, when people use one scripture to justify their hateful or irrational behavior, but they conveniently ignore the scripture before and the scripture after.

I want one of those types to point out to me where, in the scriptures, god says "Pick and choose from amongst my commandments; honor those which are convenient, and ignore those which are not."


Would anyone mind telling me which scripture that's from? It's a new one to me and I love learning the odd ones :)
 

benderten2001

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I've never found this forum to be the best place to discuss this particular topic. Religion vs. Homosexuality ....is far too controversial. But, it's a subject deserving of discussion because it is on a lot of people's minds.
It can't help but be. Reconciling one's faith to one's view on sexuality is detrimental to a well-balanced life (emotionally speaking).

As a Christian, and as a heterosexual man now in my fifities, I believe I have learned quite a bit along life's way. Having been brought up as a Southern Baptist, (yes--I've had a very strict disciplined view on homosexuality and "how this matter should be treated") well-- I'm left ashamed, frankly, as to how my fellow Baptists in particular have treated gay men and women publicly. Such antagonistic behavior towards these individuals does little to convey the love of Christ. Why, Christ Himself "mixed and mingled" with everyone; offering them compassion and understanding. I'm convinced though, that Christ would have (kindly) tried to encourage heterosexuality, however. After all, we have no tangible argument do we, that physically speaking, our bodies were desigined "male and female."

Now. With THAT said, however, I can still not go on record as fully understanding homosexuality. What I have come to understand though, is that nowhere in the bible does it say anything about the EMOTIONAL attraction between same sexes. Those famous bibilical quotes from Leviticus and Romans (and other bibilical passages) only speak to the BEHAVIORAL reactions to those emotions. Yes, bibilically speaking, "a man lying with a man as with a woman" is what's addressed. And, it's THAT behavioral pattern that's in conflict biblically to God's design. Go ahead, Get mad all you want, folks. But, this is what's in God's word. Get mad at God, if you want! Sadly, many have. But, we can't ever change what His word says.

My position on this matter, my "view" has become one of trying not to judge or condemn another man or woman, but instead allow that individual to come to terms with this himself or herself with his or her God. Ultimately, that's what it's going to boil down too, anyway. I can only offer insight into what the bible says and what I 've had to learn myself in life. Much of what I was taught early in life, I've had to sort through and come to terms with.

By example, I would hope that I (and other Christians) can somehow find ways to extend Christ's love and compassion to others; help them along life's way whenever we can, and share some of what we've learned.

Another lesson I've learned too, through many years, is that noticing the handsomeness and masculine characterisitics of my fellow males all around me doesn't necessarily make me (or any other man) "homosexual". This is one reason I outright detest labeling someone. There is still a rampant problem with people too quickly calling themselves (or each other) "gay" . Sexual orientation is a very complex area to delve into. I still believe we have many men (especially) fearing they are "gay" when really---they're not. Their interests in the same sex can actually be attributed to other (hidden) underlying psychological reasons. And, it's much more common than we would ever realize.

For those of us who are Christian, we value our relationship with God more highly than anything else in our lives. Often, this can and DOES mean making difficult choices concerning our behavior. We choose to live our lives to please God. Not everyone (especially around here!) can or will accept this rationale. Jesus himself said in Matthew 19:11 (regarding the self-righteous Pharasees questioning divorce, marriage, NOT being able to marry, etc.) "Not all men can accept this saying, but it is for those to whom (the capacity to receive) it has been given". (AMPLIFIED VERSION) --btw. Read verse 12, too. It's very interesting. Even thought provoking.


I've just about concluded that fully understanding homosexuality and all the "whys" will not be something any of us will fully understand while here on this earth. Our "assignment" while here, is to show compassion, understanding, and as much love as we can towards each other.

Accepting one's sexuality is a very personal matter which has to be "worked out". Not a one of us has the right to assume anything or interfere with that process. We can only listen and offer well-intended advice. That's all we can do. I believe it's all God expects us to do. :wink:

As much as we would even want to, we can't "save anyone" ourselves.
 

benderten2001

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"Would anyone mind telling me which scripture that's from? It's a new one to me and I love learning the odd ones" :)

As I reply here at this hour, I haven't the time to "research" the scriptural texts mentioned. Likely, it's from the Old Testament and found in books like Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy.

Without going into a sermon...:wink: here's how Christians look at this:

We must remember here that before Christ, people living in the "old testament times" were required to follow very strict God-given mandates.
I recall even reading about guidelines for grooming, appearance, etc. Priests especially were to be "set apart" in their apparel and lifestyles. But for the people as a whole, more often than not, many of these "rules" given them were for their own ultimate well-being. Also, sacrificial blood (i.e. animal sacrifices) was required as an offering of atonement before God --before Christ was born.

In the new testament, Christ became "the sacrificial lamb" which caused the sacrifice of blood (animals) to no longer be required to please God.
Also, the strict "hard to follow rules and regulations" of the Old Testament could be phased out because ultimately God provided a substitute to all this. --His son, Jesus Christ.

Since Christ's birth (and the "new testament' era) only the moral laws (i.e. Ten Commandments) are really applicable to today's Christian believers.
Many of us still revere what the Old Testament represents (we even OVER interpret it, I admit). But it's the rules governing decency, preserving morality and holiness before God that we Christians feel strongly inclined to seek to live by.
 

Not_Punny

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At the risk of having the kitchen sink (and the bible) thrown at me, it always astounds me when I hear people pontificate about how the "word of God" is in the bible.

The bible was 100% written by MAN.

And the bible is 100% interpreted (in many different ways) by MAN.

If you want to see the Word of God, look around at HIS creation... the universe itself. And if the universe includes homosexuals, then didn't God write it so?:wink:
 

Matthew

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I'm convinced though, that Christ would have (kindly) tried to encourage heterosexuality, however.

Your post presupposes that sexual orientation can be chosen.

If someone is essentially bisexual, it makes sense that they could "choose" to be only with one gender or the other (whatever you or I might think of their reasons for doing so).

But what if they can't? What if for some, they are monosexual at their core and CANNOT change? What if gays and lesbians ARE AS GOD MADE US?

And in fact, millions of people, both exclusively gay and exclusively straight, experience their sexual orientation as immutable. And that completely undermines and negates both the conservative religious viewpoint on lesbians and gays, as well as the so-called "ex-gay" movement.
 

DC_DEEP

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<...>
Now. With THAT said, however, I can still not go on record as fully understanding homosexuality. What I have come to understand though, is that nowhere in the bible does it say anything about the EMOTIONAL attraction between same sexes. Those famous bibilical quotes from Leviticus and Romans (and other bibilical passages) only speak to the BEHAVIORAL reactions to those emotions. Yes, bibilically speaking, "a man lying with a man as with a woman" is what's addressed. And, it's THAT behavioral pattern that's in conflict biblically to God's design. Go ahead, Get mad all you want, folks. But, this is what's in God's word. Get mad at God, if you want! Sadly, many have. But, we can't ever change what His word says.
Thanks for your eloquent (and tolerant) post, benderten. I do have to ask, though, why those who use Lev 18:22 usually completely disregard many of the other commandments and laws expressed in Leviticus? I suppose one explanation is that Leviticus was "the law for the Levites", or the priestly class; if that's the case, then of course it does not apply to the common folk. If there's another reason, the only one I can think of is "those laws no longer apply", and if that's the case, then none of them apply, not even 18:22. I don't recall a scripture that says "you may pick and choose, as it is convenient for you to do so."
 

Cycleman

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I have to say that I love God and I am a faithful Christian.But I am not one of those holier than thou pain in the butts who think just because they are Christians they are better than everybody else.I believe that we will all ascend into heaven when we die gay, straight,black,white,yellow,green,you get the picture.But i recently saw an article on a Christian site about Homosexualality being a huge sin and that anyone who is gay will burn in hell when they die.Well I don't think I have to tell you that that pissed me off!This lady spouted bible verses and even talked about people who have recovered from being gay like magic.I don't care what people say because if you are gay you are GAY.There is no magic pill or one of those stupid groups I have heard about where you cna be gay one day straight the next .Yeah right maybe in an alternate universe!This woman claims people who are gay will go to hell and that we are great sinners.I think the great sinners are the people who claim to be religious and then persecute others just because they are different.The fact that she said we would all go to hell was bad enough but it made me furious when I remembered poor innocent Matthew Shepard who was killed just because he was gay just because he was different.He was killed by a homophobic act and those monsters should have payed but I don't think they did considering they were allowed to live.He wasn't allowed to live because he was gay but those that killed him were how unfair and inhumane is that! This lady spouted bible verses but she forgot one and that lady better realize it "Judge not lest ye be judged".If that hypocritical holier than thou and that means everyone who judges not just people who are religious that if they judge someone then they better be prepared to be judged the same way!Post your comments here or email me whichever you choose don't matter to me I just want to know what your thoughts are about this subject.:mad: :smile:

A religious friend of mine pointed out some scripture, in the book of Romans, and showed me where in that book that homosexual acts are sinful.
He then loaned me a video in which they had testimonials from gays who were "cured".
The fact is, they weren't really gay to begin with, just confused.
But the Bible is quite clear on homosexuality as being a sin.
 

mattflanders

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But the Bible is quite clear on homosexuality as being a sin.

And it's also quite clear on a lot of other things that are accepted in modern society. The Bible is just a document of its time, and to be seen in a perspective. One can't expect something that is written that many years ago to be valid today.
 

Not_Punny

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Everyone is arguing about the word of MAN.

Every single "Word of God" was written by a man -- the Koran, the Talmud, Old Testament, New Testament, the Book of Mormon, and on and on and on.

OK, I'm going away now, and I won't bother this thread anymore. :wink:
 

Oilslickcowboy

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I have always found the Biblical argument against homosexuality to be weak. I am heterosexual by the way, raised a Methodist (some of them still consider dancing a sin). Regardless of what the Old Testament states Jesus himself only spoke of homosexuality once, he spoke of how to treat the poor and homeless many, many more times but gay love is what they focus on. Religious extremists have warped the antiquated Old Testament (which many of the rules are no longer valid per Jesus) to serve their own agendas. Fun fact for the day: Jesus is against circumcision says so in the Bible (no I can&#8217;t remember where it says that but he did say it)
 

benderten2001

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***Postscript to "cutting facial hair" bible reference--

I was able to find the two (and only two?) Biblical texts regarding this:
The first is Numbers 6:5 (which sets up the law of the Nazirite).
THEN....over in Judges 13:1-5, there's the account of Sampson (a Nazarite) and he was not to have his hair "cut".

All these strict "rules" again was, during old testament times, a means to gain the favor and acceptance of God. Those regulations have since "relaxed" considerably when God sent His son as the supreme sacrifice for man's sin. Read Hebrews 10 for a pretty good explanation.

Christians believe today that to be accepted by God, one only needs to believe in Jesus Christ-- his death, burial, and resurrection. In other words, man can't "earn" salvation by keeping ANY rules as such.
But Christians honor God by seeking to encourage those ideals expressed in the Old Testament's ten commandments and Christ adhered to these.

btw...it was the apostle Paul who stated circumcision was no longer necessary and THAT too, ...is found in the New Testament. Read
I Corinthians 7:19, Galatians 5:6,and Philippians 3:3.

It's interesting to read of comments here regarding the Bible.
I'm NOT a Bible scholar. And I certainly don't have all the answers--particularly to what we're trying to discuss here...homosexuality.
Again, every man and woman must weigh this matter for themselves.
If they deem God's word worthy of considering, they must decide from there. There are no easy answers. For many, their faith, through prayer, scripture study and reflection, leads the way for what they evenutally choose to do. I don't judge anyone for that important decision. It's a personal decision. But, obviously, an important one.

As to the Bible being "written by man"...'can't argue with that.
The bible WAS written by man, INSPIRED by God.
2 Timothy 3:16--- "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for intstruction in righteousness.(17) That the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"

--Come to think of it....how else WOULD the Bible have been written?

The FACT that the Bible is still around after thousands of years and has outsold all literature ever....kinda speaks for itself.
 

DC_DEEP

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Christians believe today that to be accepted by God, one only needs to believe in Jesus Christ-- his death, burial, and resurrection. In other words, man can't "earn" salvation by keeping ANY rules as such.
But Christians honor God by seeking to encourage those ideals expressed in the Old Testament's ten commandments and Christ adhered to these.
I don't have any problem at all if christians express the ten commandments as an ideal, but that still does not address the issue of homosexuality.

If the ideals of the OT are a guide for christians, how is it determined which scriptures are a "good guide", and which ones are not?
 

LeeEJ

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The FACT that the Bible is still around after thousands of years and has outsold all literature ever....kinda speaks for itself.

What its longevity says to me is that it's vague and easily adaptable to whatever anyone wants to say.

It's hardly a document that I find worthy of dictating every step of people's lives.
 

D_Harry_Crax

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But the Bible is quite clear on homosexuality as being a sin.

No, the Bible--as intentionally and unintentionally translated through many centuries--is quite unclear about homosexuality being a sin. It wasn't written in English, you know. Read John Boswell, for Pete's sake.
 

benderten2001

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"I don't have any problem at all if christians express the ten commandments as an ideal, but that still does not address the issue of homosexuality."

Among several biblical references to homosexuality is: OLD Testament
Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."

NEW Testament: Romans 1: (24) "Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. (25) who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.(26) For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. (27) Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. (28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; (29) being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wicknedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, they are whisperers, (30) backbiters,haters of God, violet, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents (31) undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; (32) who knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve to those who practice them." *New King James Version

Pretty direct, isn't it?

Several here in the LPSG have (sincerely?) asked for specific biblical references on this subject, so I've provided what I could find. Again, it's worth noting that the bible speaks to homosexual behavior and NOT the emotional aspect of being attracted to the same sex. Hey! I haven't a clue to explain HOW we are to deal with that aspect of things! Just like oral sex, anal sex, and masturbation....the Bible is.....totally silent on these topics. FYI, many Christians, myself included, believe that ANY sexual practice within (heterosexual) marrige is acceptable based upon Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge." Perhaps oral sex for example, is no big sin (then) within the context of marriage (since it's not specifically mentioned in the Bible...anywhere!)



We Christians are unfortunately caught in the crossfire on this subject of homosexuality.. Even when we say we don't judge others, we are judged whenever we quote what the bible says. But that's okay. We've come to expect that reaction. Christ says that we can take comfort because He was rejected first...long before us! I've answered as forthrightly as I could here what others have inquired about...what the bible says on this subject.

quote: "If the ideals of the OT are a guide for christians, how is it determined which scriptures are a "good guide", and which ones are not?

The Old Testament "laws" merely illustrated God's righteous demands for holiness. These laws however, had no power to help mortal man comply with those demands! Enter God's son, Jesus Christ. Promised throughout the old testament, when Christ finally arrived (as recorded in the new testament) He became man's better hope of salvation. Christians believe Jesus Christ to be our sacrificial substitute which God totally accepts. We don't earn our way to heaven by doing good. Instead, we "do good" and live morally because we love God and desire to please God with our earthly lives. And THAT means seeking to live according to God's plan for our lives...in harmony with His creation design as we can. Those "Ten Commandments" seem to cover it all--how we are expected to get along with God AND how we can best get along with our fellow man. .

God gives us the personal freedom to decide what we will believe.
But God also tells us in the Bible of the consequences to expect if we deliberately make bad choices!
 

avalonlovelove

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Are you calling me stupid for my comment I am just asking because that is confusing to me?Who are you talking about?I posted a question because there is such a thing called Freedom of Speech and I was just wondering what others thought about it all.iI'm not angry at you I'm just wondering who are you talking about when you call someone stupid to post this.If it is me you have your right to say your say of course.But I won't sit idly by while you judge me.Also the person who called gays queers and said better to be safe than sorry you are an incredibly ignorant individual.Another example of gay bashing in our society today.:biggrin1: :tongue: :rolleyes:I am getting very close to the end of my patience with all of this I think I wouldn't be judged as much if I just stopped freaking posting!