Religion and homosexuality?

[DC_DEEP]

God gives us the personal freedom to decide what we will believe.
But God also tells us in the Bible of the consequences to expect if we deliberately make bad choices!

I'm well-familiar with those quotes, benderten, but I think you misunderstood my question.

(disclaimer: if the following description does not describe you, then it does not describe you.)
(disclaimer: the "you" referenced in the above disclaimer is a generic "you", not directed at any specific person)

My question, stated more directly (I suppose), is this: why do so many christians insist that Lev 18:22 is of utmost importance, inflexible, and an over-arching commandment, when they choose to ignore commandments in the same book of Leviticus? I don't see women being sent outside the city while they are menstruating; I don't see women being forbidden to be in public for 33 days after giving birth to a boy or 66 days after giving birth to a girl; I don't see anyone bringing sheep or goats or rams or doves to the priest and having the blood flung around the door to the church; I don't see active condemnation for whisperers, backbiters, or those who are violent or proud or boastful or disobedient toward parents. Yeah, maybe a little lip-service to those last few, but it still remains that everything I posted here is commanded right next to the "lie with mankind as with womankind," but those just seem to fall by the wayside. Why is 18:22 more important than, say, the prohibition against tattoos and piercings? I don't see phred felps picketing tattoo parlors, or the falwell crowd demanding changes to the Constitution to make eating of fat or blood illegal.

 

[Dave NoCal]

To follow up DC's comment, this is pointed and amusing.
Dave

********************************************

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality
who dispenses advice to people who call in to her
radio show. Recently, she said that, as
an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an
abomination according to the Old Testament, Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open
letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which wasposted on the Internet.

Dear Dr. Laura

Thank you for doing so much to educate people
regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to
share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone
tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding
some of the other specific laws and how to follow
them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice,
I know it creates a pleasing smell for the Lord - Leviticus 1:9.
The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to
them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery,
as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am not allowed to have contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Leviticus 15:19-24. The
problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male
and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A
friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states she should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill her myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination
- Leviticus 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God
if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses.
Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair cut, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expresslyforbidden by the bible, in
Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Leviticus 11:6-9 that touching the skin of a dead
pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting
two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of threads (cotton and polyester blend). He also tends to curse a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town to stone them? - Leviticus 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? Leviticus
20:14

I know you have studied these things extensively,so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal
and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,

Marty
Marycarol Deane

 

[Dave NoCal]

To answer the original question:

Everyone in my family has been accepting. While I am on pleasant terms with religious co-workers, neighbors, etc... In my adulthood, close , intimate friendships with highly religious people have not taken place. It's not that I necessarily refuse, it's just that my fundamental ways of thinking are too different. I'm one of those rational humanists and consider all religions to be supernatural belief systems that are legitimized by their number of adherents and the social, politial, and financial clout of their organizations. One person standing on a street corner spouting this stuff basically gets ignored. Some of these belief systems are relatively benign while others are incredibly obnoxious and destructive. All in all, I consider religion to be more or less a wash, inspiring as much hatefullness as kindness.

 

[wldhoney]

A religious friend of mine pointed out some scripture, in the book of Romans, and showed me where in that book that homosexual acts are sinful.
He then loaned me a video in which they had testimonials from gays who were "cured".
The fact is, they weren't really gay to begin with, just confused.
But the Bible is quite clear on homosexuality as being a sin.

Actually, it depends on the translation. Keep in mind that the bible was written in Hebrew, and like all languages, words are subject to interpretation.

I grew up going to church but was lucky enough to have parents and family who consider their beliefs to be personal. My husband (passed away) came from a long line of ministers and missionaries, all the way from the Christian Motorcycle Association to Benny Hinn and TBN. (Don't get me started on those.) Many of his family members are fanatical. Unfortunately, you will find many who use the bible to wield power and to feel in someway superior to others while taking the focus off themselves.

For example, in some versions, those who wish to us the bible to condemn homosexualtiy will use this translation:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Some of you once lived this way. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

However, in another verson you will have this:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


In those days, effeminate was not a gay man. It was a man who was considered not strong or unable to protect and provide for himself and his family.

What I have always found interesting is that while so many so called "christians" will focus on homosexuality, then conveniently ignore adultery, which has far more emphasis in the bible, because their churches are full of leadership and members who are divorced. To divorce and go into another relationship is adultery.

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage must be honored among all and the marriage bed kept undefiled, for God will judge sexually immoral people and adulterers.

There are many who would interpret being on this site as immoral.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the bible is also quite clear in numerous places that we shall not pass judgement. To do so is to commit blasphemy, for you are placing yourself in God's place, and which will cause you to be judged.

Ghandi was reported as once saying "I would have been a Christian, if it hadn't been for Christians." I've always found that interesting.

 

[neils1153]

this is the way i see it... if one subcribes to the Christian faith it infact dose in a number of places show that its wrong to pratice such a lifestyle... that i given its also WRONG to fornicate/have sex out of wedlock... i dont know how many Christian people i know that love to bash homosexuals, all the while they drink much alcohol, and have pre-marital sex with their significat other... its really silly i think, and very hypicritical...

 

[jeunessedoree]

Did you know men with long hair is a sin?

 

[DC_DEEP]

Are you calling me stupid for my comment I am just asking because that is confusing to me?Who are you talking about?I posted a question because there is such a thing called Freedom of Speech and I was just wondering what others thought about it all.

Avalon, please slow down, take a deep breath, and re-read some of the posts. I didn't see where anyone called you stupid. I'm not even sure who you refer to in this post.

(P. S. I'm agreeing with you on your original post, but please be careful with the freedom of speech thing...)

Actually, it depends on the translation. Keep in mind that the bible was written in Hebrew, and like all languages, words are subject to interpretation.

Honey, excellent point. It's been brought up a few times, but only really mentioned in passing. Imagine if some of those scriptures had been written in Hawai'ian...

"Thou shalt say 'aloha' to all the children of god."

That could mean quite a number of very different things, from "hello" to "goodbye" to "I love you" to "whassup", and the goodbye could be construed to "die, you bastard" rather than "seeyalater". I'm guessing that over the last 5000 years or so, some of the old proscriptions may have undergone some contextual, connotative, or even denotative changes in translation from Aramaic to Hebrew to Greek back to Hebrew to some older English usage. Even something as simple as "Thy behavior shall be gay among friends" would be a bit different now than, say, 100 years ago.

 

[wldhoney]

Honey, excellent point. It's been brought up a few times, but only really mentioned in passing. Imagine if some of those scriptures had been written in Hawai'ian...

"Thou shalt say 'aloha' to all the children of god."

That could mean quite a number of very different things, from "hello" to "goodbye" to "I love you" to "whassup", and the goodbye could be construed to "die, you bastard" rather than "seeyalater". I'm guessing that over the last 5000 years or so, some of the old proscriptions may have undergone some contextual, connotative, or even denotative changes in translation from Aramaic to Hebrew to Greek back to Hebrew to some older English usage. Even something as simple as "Thy behavior shall be gay among friends" would be a bit different now than, say, 100 years ago.

The last supper would have been a luau! :biggrin1: Personally, I'm waiting for the ebonics version to come out! Now that one will have some soul. :wink:

 

[DC_DEEP]

Did you know men with long hair is a sin?

I'm not sure where you get that from, the scriptures I have seen forbid men to cut their hair or beards. I guess we're just damned if we do, damned if we don't. Men will go to hell if they cut their hair, but they will go to hell if they don't cut it.

 

[Osiris]

I left the catholic religion because they don't accept homosexuals.

I hear you and give you much respect for your choice. I'm still in the church and I have several gay friends and a gay brother. Fortunately, most in my parish kind of feel like I do:

1) If someone is happy, why condemn them?
2) Life is too short not to be happy so except as much as you can.
3) Since we stand for family, why condemn the gay community who is actually trying to take the lead in forging family values?

That last one has always been a pisser to me. I know several gay couples that have lasted a lot longer than "traditional" married couples. Not only that, they have raised kids with better family and life values than a lot of straight people.

I have marched as a straight Catholic in favor of same sex marriage and I wholly support it. I also feel if the Pope wants me out for this belief? he can come kick me out himself, but myself and others want to change this backward thinking from within.

If we do, you're on the list for the first parish picnic Kink. :biggrin1:

As for friends turning on you for religious reasons, maybe they weren't really friends at all. If they only knew how hard it is for someone to come out, they might think differently. My brother fought with it for years and I stood right with him as he came out to my family and I hugged him after he did.

Your true friends still love you after the coming out, the "alleged" condemn. Walk into your new life and embrace your real friends and make your new ones on the way.

Cheers!

 

[Osiris]

The last supper would have been a luau! :biggrin1: Personally, I'm waiting for the ebonics version to come out! Now that one will have some soul. :wink:

LMAO

And the Lord popped a cap in Soddom and Gammorha's ass yo!

 

[wldhoney]

LMAO

And the Lord popped a cap in Soddom and Gammorha's ass yo!

And then spaketh, "Yo bitches. Dis is whack!" :biggrin1: *arms crossed here

*there is a hilarious "da ebonics" translation site. It's just a joke, but funny!

 

[SteveHd]

...
Fun fact for the day: Jesus is against circumcision says so in the Bible (no I can’t remember where it says that but he did say it)

Maybe you were thinking of Galatians 5:2 "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing."

 

[dervin]

I have marched as a straight Catholic in favor of same sex marriage and I wholly support it. I also feel if the Pope wants me out for this belief? he can come kick me out himself, but myself and others want to change this backward thinking from within.

It ain't gonna happen. You're deluding yourself if you think it will.

 

[Osiris]

It ain't gonna happen. You're deluding yourself if you think it will.

Unless I become the pope, you're right. Fair enough.

I can at least feel better being around people who share my same faith and view so at least there is a small pocket that will remain this way.

 

[avalonlovelove]

Those people are brainwashed into believing they are not gay if they are confused fine but 99% of the time it is the influence of others that make them think they are not gay.As I said before people are hypocrites and living in a fantasy world if they think you can be gay one day straight the next.Apparently they are living in an alternate universe that is the only thing I could think it would be.People who say they are gay and then get ("ahem")modified are not telling the complete truth period.You can not take a pill,go to an excorcist and you know what I mean or magically change from gay to straight.The only time I ever saw that happen was in a MOVIE!I want people to not take offense to what I say here just relax as someone has already told me here.This wasn't to stir up controversy it was just a question:tongue: :wink: :biggrin1: :biggrin1: I actually think it is pretty hilarious that it has gotten such a reaction here as it has it was just something that made me mad so I decided to post it here that's all lol.People don't take any offense to what i say or make a big what to do about it especially these (ahem)so called Christians I mean no offense but as I said before Matthew Shepard should be all I have to say about the subject and that should be it.But sadly in this day and age it is never enough.I apologize to anyone who I have been rude to also I know it is just your opinions and after all it is America.I have a short fuse and not much patience so I apologize whoops lol.:biggrin1: :tongue:

 

[avalonlovelove]

i just read that and couldn't stop laughing Dr.Laura is not anything but a prejudice buffoon.lol :biggrin1:

 

[avalonlovelove]

I can change the poll if you want me too Industrialsize.

 

[bobabooey69]

Screw the bible! After seeing Hotmilfs pics I might just believe in a higher power again!

 

[babybooboo100]

My take on the whole religion mind set is a bit odd,but maybe sharing it will help someone.First ,i speak Aramaic as i am a Maronite,which is an ancient catholic sect and quite orthodox alsur upbringing has us learning the Peshitta (our bible) by age 4.This bible is quite different as it has been one of the least translated bible of all.The problem is that in translation you lose so much and in multiple translations you lose more.In some cases,a word isn't even able to be traslated at all......so my point is this,from Aramaic to English,how many times has a word been adulterated?Can you even trust that during the closing of the cannon by Constantine the great,was our bible completely ruined? To answer this you have to trust in your own instinct and faith.( i have many examples as i speak both,but wont go into that,i dont want to pollute the topic)

Looking at mankind as a whole you have to say that our intelligence,sexuality,advanced language and technology set us apart from any other creatures on earth.If our purpose here was to be fruitful and multiply as we were told,then why would the human female be fertile for roughly only a 36 hour period per month.This would mean that a womans function would be to actually be INFERTILE .So ask your self,is it possible that the human orgasm ,the absolute beauty of out genitals,how they work,how they respond,how delicately balanced they are,is proof of ........first,how much god loves us.....and second,that maybe our purpose here is to be sexual.......and third,proof that god makes no mistakes.If you are born in what ever gay/straight percentage demographic and you bear no guilt for who you are.then its highly possible that you are made by god to be that way(to me its 100 % meant to be)Why would god create the heavens and earth in such supreme perfection but drop the ball on you? we all have a purpose,and if you love what you are doing,then you are doing it right.......can i get an amen?