Religion and homosexuality?

[whatireallywant]

Sadly, Adam, it's simply not that easy for many people. As I stated in previous posts, I have a background in this area, and like my husband, so many people are raised with "the Bible says" says beaten into them on a daily basis from the time they are babies.

The organized facet of Christianity relies on using guilt and expectations of certain behaviors in order to control the masses. It's no longer about faith and living. It's about money and behaving a certain way. The focus on homosexuality is a way to cover their own failings and to unite a group with a "cause", one that makes them feel superior to others.

I have debated and shut up more than on fanatic in my time condemning others in the name of God, an act of blasphemy that in itself condemns them.

My husband grew up despising the hypocrisy around him, but to voice it was to be told you were possessed by Satan. Not an easy thing for a kid.

The bible "says" a lot of things that can be manipulated, and one needs to realize that man's influence is in every page. The story of Noah was written long before the Bible in Chinese folk tale and in fact exists in some way or another thru out many cultures.

You can't follow those that use the bible to control or judge. It's about personal faith and living your life in a kind and loving manner.

I saw a bumper sticker a while back that really impressed me, and I now use what it says for my sig line, "Loving Kindness is my religion". I really like that.

I grew up around fundamentalist zealots, too. Many of my extended family are still this way. I am very uncomfortable around them because of this. I may not be gay, but I have other aspects to my personality and life that they would condemn just as much.

 

[submit452]

Death's Little Irony Take 2

So let's say wldhoney dies (heaven forbid) and she gets to heaven and there is nothing but partiers, members of this forum, etc. Perhaps Jimi Hendrix on the main stage opening for the Sex Pistols. Basically all the people the religious zealots say are going to hell. In her most reserved manner she struts over to St. Peter and asks where all the Christian are? St. Peter replies...

"That crazy lot? Kept raining on the parade of the decent people. They got sent down to hell years ago. MAN I have never seen so many screwed up unhappy people. Really brought the big man's party down. Did you know God was a Prince fan?"

She replies, "Why do you let all the living think heaven is for the religious?'

"Well, everybody would be topping themselves to get here and who would be left to give all that money to the church so we can afford the bands we have?"

Now THAT would be poetic justice. What say you milady?:biggrin1:

Perhaps I've had a wee glass of wine too many.

ABSOLUTELY!! I agree with you.

 

[Rugbypup]

I was very much troubling in med school about the attitudes of other students holding attitudes that reflected not treating gays (many reasons here -- won't go there).​

I am straight and have no desire to have sexual contact with others of the same sex.​

I am learning to understand ways of homosexuality from this forum. I believe that homosexuality is wrong from religous perspectives and that it also violates the laws of nature (men/men and women/women relationships cannot reproduce).​

I have found some remarks on this threat to be truly frightening.

I am at a loss as to how some people still think and feel in the 21stC.

There are a great number of gross and hypocritical errors in organised religions and the Christian faith is no exception! Any faith that can not evalutate itself and question its very nature is mearly extreemist brain washing. It is not a sin to question ones religion, its free will.

I do believe in God, i do believe in Jesus and i do believe if man kind had followed the 'Bible' to the full extent of its content, mankind would still be as primitive society as it was in 0AD.

I am shocked and dismayed at how obviously intelligent people seem to pick and choose what they want from the Bible and pay furious disregard to the bits that are 'inconvienient' they their interpritation.

The mention of medical professionals not treating homosexuals is abusive and flat out the most aweful thing i think i have ever heard. Any doctor that would in good conscience 'choose' not to treat someone because of their sexuality should be deeply, deeply ashamed. That really would be true 'sin' in the eyes of God.

100% hetros, 100% homos, live and let live. To think it 'wrong' because of 'your' religion and violates nature is frankly childish. Homosexuality is as common in nature as hetrosexuality. There are many studies that proove it. Bats, dogs, dolphins, sheep and banobos to name but a few. As a medical professional, to make such a remark is simply embaressing and ignorent.

I believe we are all Gods children but i also honestly believe He did intend for us to grow up one day too. The very nature of God has been twisted and perverted by mankind to serve his own petty and shallow desires. I believe Gods intentions, His sacrifice was to grant man the ispiration to find a way to live harmonously with all and any on His Earth and 'we' have well and truly fucked that up.

There were a 1001 and one Hell worthy trespasses that have slowly been discounted by the church itself over 2007 years, yet some cling to the Bible as infalable. Just look at the diversity of Christianity itself, yet still one Bible. Its down to interpritation really and if the interpritation of female priests, not eating fish on a Friday, divorce and sex before marriage are all 'cleared' by one version of Christianity or another, then homosexuality is no sin either.

 

[Adam875]

Yes, I know, WildHoney, absolutely true! I couldn't agree more, and I should have written that very thoughtful and balanced piece myself. I was just letting off an expletive, really. One gets so desperate with it all sometimes.

Thanks for your post.

Adam

 

[unclespunk1049]

Homosexuality, Heterosexuality, bisexuality are all classifications of people....someday I wish we would just look at each other as human beings without a "classification". Love is "Christian"....Hate is not. To love another human, be it a man or a woman is not "a sin" ...to hate and condemn because someone loves differently from you, is "a sin".

I am basically an agnostic but strangely enough work at a church. I am openly gay and have been for years. The church I work for is Welcoming and Affirming of Gays and Lesbians and is a Christian church... I broke away from the Catholic church when I was younger because of their archaic stand on many issues (women can't be priests? give me a break....Priests can't get married? What a crock... These were man-made laws and did not come from Christ.) Anyway, I became involved in different religions and chose only those which did not contradict my belief system.

I have found that there are a number of Christian churches that accept gays and lesbians....More Light Presbyterian churches, Welcoming and Affirming American Baptist churches, Unitarian Churches, the United Church of Christ, and many Episcopal churches. If you are a gay Christian you have a choice on what church you wish to attend. If you are masochistic and choose to remain in a church that condemns homosexuals...so be it. But, if you are tired of being considered an "abomination" you should, as I have done, look for churches that don't look at you a one!

I have been rejected by a number of people in my life because they found out I was gay...or because I told them I was gay. When that happened, I just figured I did not want to associate with them because they were closed minded on that issue and that a mutually positive affirming relationship would never develop. My close friends now are a number of heterosexual couples, heterosexual singles, and homosexual couples and singles and a couple of bisexuals. These people are my friends because they do not judge me...they genuinely love the person I am and I likewise love them for who they are.

I have found that no matter how much you try, you cannot change the minds of the extremists or fundamentalists who think gays are condemned to hell. (I sometimes think that those that protest the most are latent homosexuals anyway. ) But, what can be done is to educate people. That's why it is so important to support things such as the Gay Alliances and Gay Advocacy groups.

By the way, if anyone would like some titles and authors of books dealing with religion and homosexuality, POSITIVELY, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Uncle

 

[SteveHd]

"Restoring your foreskin" ?? Are you mad ? They only let the circumcised into heaven - didn't you know? Better to be safe than sorry.

Those who are restoring their foreskin are still circumcised; F/R doesn't undo that fact. I still have my ugly circ. scar.

It will have no bearing on my afterlife. According to the hyper-fundies my ticket to Hell is confirmed and waiting for me to die.:biggrin: Being a lifelong procrastinator, I'm going to postpone death as long as I possibly can.

 

[D_Coyne Toss]

This "lady" knows nothing about Christianity.

Jesus Christ said the most important commandment is (I don't know the exaxt English translation): you should love others like you love yourself.

And there is one Judge in the final day, and He will not be that woman.

 

[mattyacht]

These pharisees who condemn gays quickly forget there is a plethora of reasons people go to hell for. Let's see, lieing, cheating, stealing, adultery, fornication, murder, slander, gossip, etc..... When everyone wanted to stone Mary Magdalene, Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." People go to hell for not accepting Jesus as the supreme sacrifice and only propitiation for their sin. Folks, our efforts will not come close to cutting the mustard. Let's all just learn to love one another unconditionally and let God do his job. I'm not holier than thou by any stretch. Without Christ I wouldn't make with the cock fetish I deal with daily.
LIVE AND LET LIVE.

 

[mattyacht]

These pharisees who condemn gays quickly forget there is a plethora of reasons people go to hell for. Let's see, lieing, cheating, stealing, adultery, fornication, murder, slander, gossip, etc..... When everyone wanted to stone Mary Magdalene, Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." People go to hell for not accepting Jesus as the supreme sacrifice and only propitiation for their sin. Folks, our efforts will not come close to cutting the mustard. Let's all just learn to love one another unconditionally and let God do his job. I'm not holier than thou by any stretch. Without Christ I wouldn't make with the cock fetish I deal with daily.
LIVE AND LET LIVE.

 

[green carnation]

Gay or not, and regardless of religion, I can't understand what makes a man want to stick his cock up another man's ass and like that better than a woman's pussy.

As far as the question of whether or not queers go to heaven or hell, I say it's better to be safe than sorry!

I too have to register my displeasure at this quote. I cannot understand someone (like RandyL is currently trying to do according to his message signature) wanting to stretch their foreskin (as I already have one I suppose) but I certainly would not be rude to them about it.

I pity the women whose "pussies" get the treatment from him

 

[cgttown]

If one believes the Bible (which, by the way, should be the basis for a discussion about what the Bible says about whatever subject), then all sinners deserve hell. What's more, all people are sinners, born into sin even. That means, by the way, that people are sinners at birth, before they've done anything "sinful." In other words, people sin because they are sinners, not the other way around.

So, if all people are sinners, and all sinners deserve hell, then we're all equal--equally sinful, equally condemned. Christians (again, according to the Bible) are just sinners who have been justified (declared righteous) because of faith in the one person who never sinned (Jesus Christ). Again, according to the Bible, those sinners who have been declared righteous were declared that way because God decided to declare them.

Looking at it logically, no Christian has any grounds to treat as second or third class citizens any other sinner because God calls all people equally sinful and deserving of hell. So categorizing homosexual desire or behavior as something different than adultery or lying or cheating or, frankly, disobeying ones parents (according to the Bible) is not Biblical.

So, if a Christian is a follower of Christ, he or she should emulate Him. Take a look at how Jesus treated those whom others rejected. He befriended them, loved them, made friends with them, and shared who he was with them. That should be the example for all Christians to follow.

BTW, the Christian who says he personally is without sin is called a liar and the truth is not in him (the Bible again). Understanding one's own shortcomings would be the first step to interacting with anyone with a Kingdom mentality. Those who revile, hate, disdain, and diparage others are not representing Christ in any accurate way, shape, or form.

 

[SyddyKitty]

I'm sure I'd lose the entire father's side of my family. My parents have been divorced for over 10 years now. My dad's father owns a church in Chillicothe, Ohio (Melvin Maughmer). My dad, just a few years ago, began preaching there. Since we never have to see each other (I live in PA) I've never told him. My mother and Grandmother both know and were formerly into their same gender (go figure), so they were accepting. Neither of them is religious but my father's entire family is.

I was raised Christian for 13 years (yes, the first two years after the divorce, I had to still see my father a lot). I never gave it up for being homosexual. I gave it up for the crap being spouted at the various churches I had to go to.

So, to answer the OP, I'd lose about half my family. I've never lost a friend for it, though I was temporarily ridiculed by one about it. She was an EXTREME christian... you know, one of those "I'm throwing away all my music with cursing in it." types.

 

[yngjock20]

I have to say that I love God and I am a faithful Christian. (cool, me too!)

i recently saw an article on a Christian site about Homosexualality being a huge sin and that anyone who is gay will burn in hell when they die.Well I don't think I have to tell you that that pissed me off!This lady spouted bible verses and even talked about people who have recovered from being gay like magic...

Here's the thing with "recovery from homosexuality;" it was basically created out of self-hatred formed from years and years of people beating in the "You're going to hell" idea. I personally don't believe that being gay is a choice, however living your life as a gay man is.

I know many people who are not living as any sexual orientation; meaning that they aren't identifying themselves as being gay or straight, just a christian. They don't have families, children or spouses but they are living awesome, fulfilled lives and helping people in amazing ways.

I think it's sad when people are so violent against others living their own way of life...gay or straight. The world would be a much better place if everyone allowed people to believe what they choose to believe.

When I'm with my Christian friends and the subject of gay issues gets brought up, I get upset at the way they respond to certain ideas; adversly, when I'm with my gay friends, I'm completely turned off by the way they spit on Christianity and spew out supposed "facts" about religion and Christians that have no basis of truth.

Each one submits to a form of prejudice that would be dispelled if they only sought to understand what each other believes instead of slandering them.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Why do parents raise their children into their religion? Are they scared?

That's one thing I have a problem with. Aside of course from no creation story/faith being true. If the story in the bible is true then why not the stories in any of the Greek myths or from other civilisations? Why is the bible or Qu'ran any more believable than the story of Dreamtime? IMO it isn't. And there is a definite pattern that human civilisations have thought up their own reasons for life and death, why we are here and where we go when we die. Most of them are commonly held to be complete fantasy. Sadly, some persist.

I don't know anyone who is overly religious who has 'come out' so I can't answer this poll but...

How did Avalon come up with the numbers for this poll?

 

[clecle3880]

Why do parents raise their children into their religion? Are they scared?

That's one thing I have a problem with. Aside of course from no creation story/faith being true. If the story in the bible is true then why not the stories in any of the Greek myths or from other civilisations? Why is the bible or Qu'ran any more believable than the story of Dreamtime? IMO it isn't. And there is a definite pattern that human civilisations have thought up their own reasons for life and death, why we are here and where we go when we die. Most of them are commonly held to be complete fantasy. Sadly, some persist.

******

ScaredLittleBoy you rock!!! I agree 100% w/your sentiments. D'accord!!!! I'd add also that it's quite amazing that people hate and even kill on the basis of these 'thought up' theories on life, death and the afterlife.

 

[jesuscausescancer]

It's a shame that moderate religious people cannot simply go one further and give up religion altogether. I can understand tradition and the cultural values applied to some religious practices, but can't you simply appreciate them for that without having to believe in God or all that other nonsense? And if you chose to stick with your religion, particularly any Christian faith, how many times will you bang yourself upside the head with that damnable Bible, sinking to the level of your theologian critics who pick and choose quotes from that silly book to justify their stand-point. Then you, in turn, must look for even more quotes from the silly book to justify your natural state of being on their terms. It's not enough that variances in sexual diversity are a plain fact of nature, but instead you have to fight through the labrynth of denial and shame to try and outwit your religious opponents. We had to face plenty of that here in Massachusetts for quite some time, and we still do... But why not, instead of fighting through that labrynth, do one better, and opt not to enter it to begin with?

 

[SilverSoldier]

Gay or not, and regardless of religion, I can't understand what makes a man want to stick his cock up another man's ass and like that better than a woman's pussy.

As far as the question of whether or not queers go to heaven or hell, I say it's better to be safe than sorry!

Gushing with thought and intelligence, aren't we?

If you want to be safe, stay a virgin. But obviously for you it's way too late for that.

 

[SilverSoldier]

Oh, one final thought.
Make your peace with yourself. If you believe in God, include him.
Otherwise, why should anyone else's opinion count?
You have to be happy with yourself first. If that can't happen, what's the point in living such a shitty life?