Religiosity and lower IQ

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Drifterwood, Aug 10, 2007.

  1. Drifterwood

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    “Several research studies have been published on the statistical relationship between religiosity and educational level, or religiosity and IQ.

    Michael Shermer, in How We Believe: The Search for God in an Age of Science, describes a large survey of randomly chosen Americans that he and his colleague Frank Sulloway carried out. [...] Religiosity is indeed negatively correlated with education (more highly educated people are less likely to be religious). Religiosity is also negatively correlated with interest in science. [...]


    [Paul Bell in Mensa Magazine, 2002, reviewed all studies taken of religion and IQ. He concluded:]
    "Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold "beliefs" of any kind."

    But I think that SOME people on this board have made this pretty clear already.
     
  2. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    Just as I had always thought.
     
  3. deepwader

    deepwader Member

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    is penis worship a religion?
     
  4. Principessa

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    If its pretty clear why did you post this? :tongue: :biggrin1: :confused:
     
  5. kalipygian

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    And Unitarians are 10 times as intelligent as independants.:eek: (actually, what I remember is that UU's were about 100 times more likely to be Mensa members)
     
  6. B_btrelll

    B_btrelll New Member

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    Since when h[SIZE=-1]as IQ [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]actu[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ally been prized by [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]anyone in re[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]al life terms? It's only [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]a ment[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]al [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]cocksize bo[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ast for cert[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ain people to comp[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]are [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]and [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]value[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], it h[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]as little re[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]al world v[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]alue no m[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]atter how h[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ard Mens[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]a tries to cl[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]aim otherwise. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]How [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]about the correl[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ation of IQ [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]and [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]autism? IQ [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]and murderers? IQ [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]and p[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]aedophiles w[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ar crimin[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]als, or r[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]apists[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], e[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ach of which h[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ave been linked to [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]a higher IQ [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]by cert[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ain "studies".

    I see nothing here but [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]another poor [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]attempt to discredit people with religious beliefs. The lengths people go to for th[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]at [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]are m[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]azing when it's such [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]a simple t[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ask[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - w[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]asn't there simil[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]arly cited "proof" th[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]at Republic[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ans h[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ad lower IQs which w[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]as [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]also p[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ap.

    Note to [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]aethiests; must try h[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]arder. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](cue "jokes" [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]about my IQ being 7 or somesuch)[/SIZE]
     
  7. Drifterwood

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    Racists also have lower IQs.
     
  8. ManlyBanisters

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    Ah dear Drifter and your little agenda - bless!

    You can prove just about anything with statistics. I have no idea whether those studies started with an agenda, I rather think they did. Looking at Shermer's sample groups I also am of the opinion they were carefully chosen to get the required results - 'random' is actually a very big word, and shouldn't be bandied about lightly.

    There is also a marked difference between 'religiosity' and a strong personal belief. Many people have religion as part of their lives, they were brought up with it and they keep it unquestioningly in their lives. I'm not at all surprised that it is easy to go into any less affluent community, where less importance is placed on education, understandably, at the expense of making a living, and find a wider tendancy among that community for 'religiosity'. I'm not, by the way, saying that less affluent communities have a higher proportion of less intelligent people- just that, when financial pressure is key people are forced to think about earning money how-so-ever before they can afford the luxury of education, certainly of 'further education'. Religion is indeed often the opiate of the masses - that isn't really a good thing but I'm still of the opinion though that it is a better opiate that football or X-Factor.

    In relation to the IQ / religiosity studies Bell is referring to - I will have to read them, or at least the abstracts, myself first. I don't know where these studies were carried out, on whom, by whom, nor when - so I am obviously currently underqualified to properly answer that point. My suspicions are drawn towards skewed data - but then, considering the side of the fence I am arguing from, that is not surprising - nor, without evidence, is it an argument.

    The unquestioning acceptance of any one religious belief is not something I am particularly comfortable with. Many people go through life believing as their parents did, in terms of religion and politics, because it is easier not to think about it and not to question. All the major (real) religions, if you look at all in any detail, allow for a vast amount of personal questioning. The Catholic Church, the one I feel most qualified to comment on, is often accused of being too rigid and closed. The people making those accusations have not looked at all deeply into the theology of the Church. There are very few things a Catholic is required to believe in, very few. The rest is a matter of personal faith - there is an awful lot of room for manoeuvre.

    Given the luxury of a high IQ and a good education peope are more likely to question and the agnostic argument is by far the strongest logical argument. Nearly all the atheists I know are too closed, too shut in to the idea they they and they alone are clever enough to have deconstructed God - like Dawkins they have a level of smug superiority that their argument does not actually back at all. By contrast, many of the religious people I know (all faiths) are far more open to argument against their theology. That is just my personal experience though, and not necessarily representative.
     
  9. Deno

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    edited to remove my statement "who really fucking cares"
     
  10. Drifterwood

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    To be honest, I am not a big fan of the IQ system either, but 39 of 43 studies is quite compelling. No doubt the four will be shown to be the only ones that were conducted fairly.

    Incidentally, I would never call myself an atheist, and I know some remarkably intelligent religious people. Maybe they did the surveys at the Creation Museum.
     
  11. Andro Man

    Andro Man New Member

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    Bach, da Vinci, Newton, and more recently Stephen Hawking were/are all very religious

    God bless
     
  12. Mem

    Mem
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    NINEINCH160iq is gonna be pissed at YOU.
     
  13. frizzle

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    I guess all racists are stupid then. Oh wait they're not.
     
  14. Not_Punny

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    I'm with Manlybannisters on this -- "religiosity" is not definitive enough to use as an "IQ index."

    However, I do believe that there are an awful lot of "unthinking" people. I also believe that these people would "fail to think" no matter WHAT their religion. (IMHO, "thinkingness" is a HABIT which is fostered by the presence or absence of mental stimulation, and "thinkingness" can be learned or unlearned.)

    I think it's more a matter of HOW you embrace religion: as a "faith" or as a set of theories about creation, existence and after-life.

    Religious philosophy is about questions.

    Faith is about answers.

    And IMO, people who view faith as "absolute" tend to be unthinkers.
     
  15. earllogjam

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    IQ tests are developed for people who make IQ tests. It is not a true measure of anyone's intelligence.

    Did the IQ test have a biblical knowledge section? A how to be holier than thou section? or how to seduce an altar boy section? Probably not.
     
  16. Dr. Dilznick

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    Apples and oranges. Back then, religion was the cornerstone of every facet of life. Even the most heretical people believed in some sort of a higher power, even if it was heterodox. True atheism didn't exist.

    Very religious? State your sources.
     
  17. DC_DEEP

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    Actually, stupidity is one of the requirements for racism.
     
  18. arktrucker

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    No I don't think that's correct... I think maybe what you really meant to say is racists seem stupid to non racists. It's the fear of the unknown.
     
  19. kalipygian

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    Yes with Bach, I had not heard that about da Vinci, you are perhaps confusing him with Michaelangelo Buonorotti.
    Newton's beliefs progressed over his life, he was the only person to be given a dispensation by Charles II to not swear to belief in the Trinity, which was a requirement for holding a Cambridge professorship. He did not accept any dogma in later life. There is a myth floating around about him having been a fundamentalist, his early life was spent during the puritan theocracy, living in the homes of clerical relatives.
     
  20. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    Yet another idiot completely misses the point of my handle.
     
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