Republicans & Conservatives Adrift - As they madly lash out on LPSG

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    A brand new Rasmussen Poll seems to suggests why republicans and conservatives are so frustrated, divided and rudderless.

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    Rasmussen Question (republican voters only)

    WHO'S THE LEADER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?


    Republican voters responded:


    No Clear Leader -- 68%

    Undecided -- 17%

    John McCain -- 5%

    Michael Steele -- 5%

    Rush Limbaugh -- 2%


    Without a clear leader -- in fact, without any cohesive conservative message to guide and inspire, the republican and conservative posters on this site have become the equivalents of militant Iraqi suicide bombers, bombing random liberals, arbitrarily lashing out at Obama, at "socialist libtards", at polls, at the mainstream media; attributing to, and blaming Barack Obama for, every ill and disorder that afflicts the nation. The downed stock markets are Obama's fault! Creeping socialism is Obama's fault! Obama should let the banks fail! Obama has no respect for the "culture of life"! Obama "hates America" - is how callers to conservative talk radio generally describe it. Without a clear leader, posters are getting their "direction" from Sean Hannity & Rush Limbaugh.

    But, at heart, I know I'm being unfair. A party that is shut out of all branches of government is bound to have no clear leader.

    According to today's Gallup poll, the "Consumer Mood" of the country is at 2% positive (yes, 2%!). Yet Obama's approval rating is at almost 2/3rds of the electorate.
     
    #1 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 10, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  2. sargon20

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    Of course they are rudderless, the entire ideology has exploded in spectacular failure. The usual marketing slogans 'small goverment', 'low taxes' no longer work. They thought they were unhinging business from all those needless regulations so business could do it's thing and do it's thing it did by making the rich rich and the poorer poorer, and destabilizing the entire world economy. And in the process dragging the whole world into recession and no map out of the ditch they drove the world into. That's an unparalleled achievement. Exactly WHO COULD follow-up on that one?
     
    #2 sargon20, Mar 10, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  3. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    you guys are fudging hilarious!
     
  4. sargon20

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    All of us knew it was hilarious to think letting private business dictate public policy was good. Now the proof is everywhere.

    Banking Regulator Played Advocate Over Enforcer, Agency Let Lenders Grow Out of Control, Then Fail

    When Countrywide Financial felt pressured by federal agencies charged with overseeing it, executives at the giant mortgage lender simply switched regulators in the spring of 2007
    You see this is the 'small government' conservatives jerk off to every morning. So 'small' it can't do a thing about big business irresponsibility until they fail. Then it's time for the public dollars to bail out the private assholes.
     
    #4 sargon20, Mar 10, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  5. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I haven't been around in a month [LPSG jail] but could it be that folks are just lashing out because of the state of affairs here? Does it have to be partisan lashing just because we are in the Politics forum?

    I'm a fiscal conservative and I don't give a rat's ass if the Republican party has a visible leader right now.

    My guess would be that creating this massive government in the midst of a horrific recession would cause more nausea for conservatives than the absence of a definitive party leader.
     
  6. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    Star! Congrats on getting out of your mom's basement! :)

    So, Reagan cut taxes and increased government spending, George W. Bush cut taxes (for the wealthy) and dramatically increased government spending, and Obama so far has cut taxes for 98% of Americans.

    I call your 'government is the problem' shibboleth of the 80s and raise you a John M. Keynes!

     
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Oh, will, look at you. Star's back and you just can't help yourself.

    Provocative beyotch.
     
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Thanks, it was getting a little stuffy in the basement.

    I think that as long as GDP is growing, it is more feasible to raise gov't spending. When GDP is shrinking at a 6% rate, it is not feasible to raise gov't spending.

    Also, make sure you don't confuse cutting taxes with reducing tax receipts. Reagan cut taxes, but national income rose and so with it, tax receipts. Reagan also 'bailed out' Social Security...as difficult as it is for the libs to admit.

    And government isn't the problem all the time...just 98% of the time.
     
  9. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Will reminds me the last day, of a twisted zookeeper poking a caged animal with a broomstick...:tongue:
     
  10. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Star: You say we're "in the midst of a horrific recession". I've been surfing around the net trying to figure out what Bush was saying (about HIS recession).

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    Feb.28, 2008: President George W Bush says the US economy is not heading towards recession but is in a "slowdown". ....President Bush rejected calls for a second stimilus package, telling reporters at the White House press conference: "why don't we let the stimulus package we have a chance to kick in." ---

    Responding to a question about the weakness of the US dollar, he said: "We believe in a strong dollar policy".

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    All through 2008 there are examples of this kind of denial. (Is it even possilble that a president could have no idea that a massive recession was a half a year away? All the signs were there by Feb. '08)

    But then again, look at how he answered EVERY question. "We're makin' progress in Iraq!" "We're makin' progess in Afghanistan."

    Last week when President Obama was asked if the U.S. was "winning" in Afghanistan he said... "No." (then hinted at possible talks with moderate elements of the Taliban). He did not try to give the country a happy, rose-colored snow job.

    Bush even tried to conceal the cost of war by not adding the billions of dollars legislated to the budget (or deficit). It seems he was in denial about every big issue his administration tackled (the wars, the budget, the coming recession).
     
    #10 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 10, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  11. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Is it noon already? Time for your feeding.
     
    #11 B_Nick8, Mar 10, 2009
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  12. houtx48

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    little stuffy in the basement................did you get to be somebodies byach in jail?
     
  13. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    And, star, I would humbly suggest that the reason you feel like a "caged animal" is because there is no "one-size-fits-all answer" (like "tax cuts!") for this recession -- and modern talk-radio-inspired conservatives are notorious for, especially social conservatives, the simple, one-sentence answer. You are limited in the current approved "conservative response" handed to you from Rush & Sean (thus your feelings of "caged animal", claustrophobia towards responses). There are major economists who've even suggested that the last stimulus package - the $800 billion plus - was not enough cash infusion to jump start the economy properly.

    This HUGE economic disaster did not suddenly begin & metastasize on January 20 when Obama stepped into office. It is not enough for conservatives to say "no" (like obstinate, foot-stomping children) to stimulus proposals, then offer up moldy solutions from the Bush and Reagan eras, like there is a one-size-fits-all conservative solution for all problems. Your brand of conservatism is of too recent vintage anyway (going back perhaps only four of five decades) to offer up any "eternal economic truths".

    For the record. I think health care is intertwined in this whole economic depression and must be addressed.

    I think global warming can wait. In fact, I'm a pessimist that anything can be done to stop it at all if the scientists are correct. A huge on-the-make country like China will never abide by set global rules for carbon emissions. They don't even like to curb lead in children's toys or toxic dog food if it can still turn a quick profit and they can get away with it.

    Oh. I have on MSNBC. There is a conservative being interviewed regarding his "2012 Draft Sarah Committee". -- This is depressing. Surely the GOP can offer up candidates of a higher grade than Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber and Newt Gingrich. Where is your equivalent of Barack and Hillary (the golden couple)?
     
    #13 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 10, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  14. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Last night at Radio City, Ann Coulter went on about her love for Sarah Palin and her strong prospects in 2012, saying that between now and then she will have time to spend "more time governing Alaska and reading". Bill Maher didn't seem to understand what the point of that would be since she wouldn't be able to remember what, when asked.

    But for now, the Repubs have Limbaugh. Back to the future with radio.
     
  15. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    In all fairness, even the economists didn't know we were in a recession at that time. Technically, it was a slowdown at that point.

    He did say some dumb things.


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    I don't think I can agree with you here. A recession is 2 consecutive qtrs of negative GDP growth, no one had evidence that the recession started in Dec '07 until just recently.

    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like you are suggesting that Obama is being more straightforward to the public than Bush? I won't argue with that for now. Campaign promises, etc., is a different story.

    My point with my last post is simply that conservatives are probably frustrated at the substantial expansion of government in this economic environment....not just bitter at Obama or lack of republican leadership.
     
  16. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    willtom: "All through 2008 there are examples of this kind of denial. (Is it even possilble that a president could have no idea that a massive recession was a half a year away? All the signs were there by Feb. '08)"

    starinvestor: "I don't think I can agree with you here. A recession is 2 consecutive qtrs of negative GDP growth, no one had evidence that the recession started in Dec '07 until just recently."

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    Star, you seem to think the president and his economic advisors have no "insider baseball" into what was going on under their watch at the money loaning institutions. I distnctly remember you telling me (whenever I would bring up the "war on terror"), that I could not assess the terror strategy situation properly, because GWB had access to all kinds of "secret" information that he was acting on, that average americans did not, so I should beware of judging him.

    It's hard to believe that Bush had all kinds of "secret" info regarding terrorists activities... yet was just an ordinary american yokel like the rest of us regarding economics - patiently awaiting news from the various financial institutions regarding the recession.

    On one hand (the terrorist front), you see Bush as active and involved, making and responding to policy. And on the other hand (economic front), you defend Bush as estranged from the process, divided from his own policies that helped foster this meltdown, an ordinary guy in a chair anxiously awaiting news from the next economic report (that we all get) to "update" him. Like he was Joe Schmoe from Idaho observing the markets from a distance.

    In the war on terror, he's a "playa" to you.

    In the economic meltdown and recession, he's a helpless bystander, like residents of NYC on 9/11 watching the Twin Towers fall.


    Nick8:

    pssst. I actually enjoy Ann Coulter when you can drag her away from the likes of Hannity and other hard-right conservatives (don't let this get around!) . She's a frequent guest here in LA on gay conservative Al Rantel's talk-radio show. Al took Ann to the huge (quarter of a million attendees) West Hollywood Gay Halloween Parade on Santa Monica Blvd. at the end of October and... she had a blast. It was actually funny hearing her riff on gay culture and the drag queens - and the almost naked guys spray-painted in silver on stilts dressed as giant angels... or the guys dressed as nuns on roller skates. She has a lively sense of humor when you drag her away from politics. In another life, she could easily be a fag hag.

    Really looking forward to seeing Maher/Coulter. They are perversely fond or each other. Bill's mentioned this before. I've seen Maher's "Real Time" HBO show live in West Hollywood, where he shoots, on Friday nights. He's a great, quick-witted, cerebral comedian.
     
  17. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Yes. Well put, actually. The bank presidents themselves didn't understand the magnitude of this credit crisis nor the impact of the CDS implosion, let alone George Bush who has never even been involved in the banking industry.

    He was receiving around the clock security briefings. To my knowledge, very few bank briefings.
     
  18. houtx48

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    the past month has been so peaceful and now the yammering begins anew.
     
  19. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Wasn't it his job, or that of his advisers, to make sure he was kept fully abreast on all issues that affect this country? Ignorance is no excuse, star.

    You call it yammering; I call it discussion.
     
  20. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    starinvestor: "Yes. Well put, actually. The bank presidents themselves didn't understand the magnitude of this credit crisis nor the impact of the CDS implosion, let alone George Bush who has never even been involved in the banking industry.

    He was receiving around the clock security briefings. To my knowledge, very few bank briefings."

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    Star. Unwittingly, you seem to be making a case for more governmental involvement and control in the banking "free market".

    To your mind, the government did a commendable job in Iraq (governmental intervention! -- so apparently it does some things right).

    To your mind, the government might have been able to prevent present economic collapse were GWB able to get daily bank briefings as he did "round the clock security briefings". The government would be able to bring about a larger level of the "transparency" needed to detect fraud and mismanagement (which, after all, is only covered up in a "free market system" - so that the greedy capitalist corporations can steal as much booty as they can without detection).

    You seem to be hoisted on your own conservative petard, because underneath the conscious level of your prose, you are actually screaming a case for the nationalization of the banking system. You're in good company because your conservative friend, SC senator Lindsey Graham, is publicly making this case for nationalization also.


    Isn't it strange? Starting on July 11, 2008 with the failure of IndyMac... through 38 consecutive bank failures later (according to my "FDIC Failed Bank List" which you can google), almost nobody thinks of the banking industry as part of the "free market system" anymore. What a difference a day makes (so to speak)! I predict this same public change-of-consciousness will soon happen with the U.S. healthcare system. We must learn to properly balance our socialism and capitalism in this country.
     
    #20 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 10, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
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