Respect, Admiration, and Thanks

[Stretch]

How else am I supposed to say they are dying in vain for the pursuits of globalist corporations? How do i sugar coat the truth. It's the truth.

Very true. That's all it is. People, however, need to make up a truth that will make all the dying not seem in vain and pointless. Another sad truth

 

[Horaven]

How else am I supposed to say they are dying in vain for the pursuits of globalist corporations? How do i sugar coat the truth. It's the truth. That's really what you have a problem with, the truth.

The truth is exalted and infallible and must be be shouted into the ears of the stupid, greedy, ignorant masses until the day I die, or until they recognize it. You should also be telling the truth as well. Perhaps, once you recognize the truth, you can speak it. You know damn well those soldiers are dying in vain, just like they did in Vietnam. You fucking know it, deep down somewhere, that what I say is true. You know it.

Very true. That's all it is. People, however, need to make up a truth that will make all the dying not seem in vain and pointless. Another sad truth

This is the problem with the "truth". Regardless of how true it actually is, saying it in a certain way that could possibly anger large amounts or people will make them turn the volume down instantly.

Has nothing to do with you being right or wrong New End. Regardless of it masses of people being blind or not wanting to hear, they will change the channel, turn the page, close the browser of whatever media outlet they are using if someone just comes off being angry. Right or wrong, that's reality.

If you come off just being angry, pissed at the government, screaming how stupid the masses are for allowing this you will lose the support you need to make any head way at all regardless of the topic.

 

[maxcok]

Max's response, now with entertaining musical interludes:

What difference does it make what they believe?

What difference does it make what you believe?

They can not join. They have been exposed to the truth somewhere.

Maybe they haven't. Maybe they haven't had the rare pleasure of meeting you. Scream louder.

Bullshit. The world doesn't believe they have to support the American and British troops. Only Americans and Brits do. If you deny this, it is you who does not get it.

Last time I'm going to explain this, so pay attention. I don't have to support the troops and their families as individuals, I choose to, on humanist, not nationalistic grounds. At the same time, I was vehemently, vocally opposed to the war, though for the forseeable future, I recognize our presence in country is now unavoidable. Understand also that I am a pacifist, as I explained, and I would never take up arms against another human, except as a last resort to defend myself or someone else against the threat of immediate bodily harm, possibly to defend my nation from a direct threat of tyranny. However, I do not dictate my own moral authority onto others, and I recognize the unfortunate necessity of a standing military, if not this particular war. I've already explained this reasoning and the attendant distinctions ad nauseum, but either you are too simple-minded or you simply refuse to comprehend. Not big on nuance, are ya?

I know a shit ton about Iraq. Do not insult my intelligence.

So far I've seen no evidence of that (unless you mean it literally) so if your intelligence is being insulted you're shooting yourself. Funny how you keep accusing everyone of insulting your intelligence, starting with Angel. Defensive much? Insecure? Regardless of your intelligence, which I have not and will not comment on, your understanding of everything else in this debate is reflective of incredibly simplistic thinking, so no surprise that your superficial understanding of Iraqi society and regional and wider international politics would be at the root of your misconceptions.

Oh well. Britain's colonial borders might have to be redrawbn to more realistic borders.

And who's going to do that, pray tell? Under what authority and how much death and destruction will it require to bring that about? Are you going to uproot millions of Shiite, millions of Sunni, millions of Kurds from their homes and communities and force them to relocate into new territories? How are you going to divide the profits from natural resources, predominantly but not just oil, equitably across these new societies, these new artificial "nations"? What's to stop them from going right back to fighting across borders as soon as they're drawn? I'm sure you've thought this all through, so please, tell us what your grand plan is. Seriously, I want to know, so tell me. I'm sure the Iraqis would like to know what you have planned for them too. My god, you are naive.

Whose nukes?

Israeli and American, for starters. Conceivably British, Russian, even Pakistani and others. I don't do complex future predictions, and it's anybody's guess where things could lead. All I know is the Middle East is a tightly held powder keg and a lot of folks within and far beyond the region have a vested interest. If the lid completely blows off there, the repercussions will be felt far and wide.

wow. delusional. "reality" LoL.

Way to spin it, twister. You know damn well I wasn't saying I personally believe in prophecy or Armageddon scenarios in a biblical sense. The point is, there are those who do, and some of them are, or have been, in positions of power, like the two I mentioned. Some have even stated publicly their desire to advance that agenda, including influential voices training cadets at the Air Force Academy, for one example. There are others behind the curtain who are intent on advancing that agenda too. You are incredibly naive. And thanks again for blatantly displaying your dishonest debate tactics.

Finally, no more dilly-dallying and massive paragraphs explaining how what obviously was an insult wasn't. Glad to see you can be honest in your discourse sometimes.

I am always honest in my discourse. I wish the same could be said for you.

Public pressure was a huge reason we left Vietnam. We could have stayed there forever. And people like you would have been telling us if we left, Vietnam would be soaked in a communist bloodbath, and the whole world would go red. Didn't happen.

People like me? LOLOL! And here is where you prove - yet again - that you are completely full of shit by trying to fit people into your neat little authoritarian-minded boxes and making dead ass wrong assumptions about them in the process. You're gonna preach to me about Vietnam and what I thought about it? Really?? Were you even alive then? FYI, I had my shirt ripped off of me by my principal, booted in the ass, called a Satanist and a stinking Communist, and kicked out of my small town southern school all for wearing a peace sign - and that was just for starters. Had I been old enough to be drafted, I would have gone to prison before serving in that immoral war. Still, I gave support and comfort to those who did serve, many who returned terribly wounded, both physically and psychologically. What do you know about Vietnam, tadpole? What do you know about the experience of wounded war veterans? What do you know about friends and families grieving over their dead soldiers? What do you know about me? Seriously, shut the fuck up.

protectorate. LoL doublespeak for colony.

I didn't say it was a good thing or that I supported it. I was just stating reality. Remember? The discussion was about reality? My god, you are dense!

So after repeatedly asking me to answer your same damn stupid question, over and over, which I have answered in a variety of ways ad nauseum, finally you have deigned to answer one of my questions. Namely: Other than screaming into the wind, what have you done to move the US and the world in the direction you would like to see? Oh, and how did you stand up to the corporate media empire? LOL. Your answer:

I volunteered, gave money to political campaigns, yadda yadda yadda.

Oh I can just imagine. Licked some envelopes, maybe got pressured into dropping ten bucks here and there. No, I think you're much more about the "yadda, yadda, yadda", hearing yourself talk, watching yourself type. Soo much more self-satisfying and productive, isn't it? Even though NOBODY'S LISTENING TO YOU SCREAM!!!

Oh yeah, Im sayin' all this to get the chicks.

Maybe because you can't get chicks. > here <

Why is everybody so obsessed that I go out and "do something" about it? I think plainly stating how I feel is enough. And I know why I am doing this.

You may claim to know why you're doing it, but to everyone else it's obvious you're not doing anything except flapping your gums, engaging in verbal masturbation. Can you name one person on the big pee-pee site you've influenced to your position with your bellowing vitriol? Seriously, give us an answer to that.

Authoritarian. LoL. Well, if you say so.

Don't take my word for it:

The Authoritarian Mindset

"When encountering those who have a desire to tell others what to do, to dictate to them, one can try to classify them into different categories. C. S. Lewis did so by discussing the difference between the dictator who dictates out of greed and the one who dictates out of a desire to help others. The former, he said, was preferable because his greed could sometimes be sated.

Another way of looking at this is to compare those who desire to dictate because of a specific action they see (or fail to see) in others that they want to correct. While they consider themselves lovers of liberty they are all too willing to violate it for "just this cause" or "just that purpose." It could be the moral authoritarianism of the war against vice or it could be the socialist authoritarianism of the war against differences of ability. In neither case does the person involved see himself as anti-liberty, but they see themselves correcting a flaw in liberty." -- Ayn R Key
​

A vast, vast majority of Iraqis did not deserve this war.

Couldn't agree more, actually none of them deserved it. Has anyone said otherwise? My god, you are dense.

the boat needs to be rocked.

Great platitude. > Rock the Boat <

How else am I supposed to say they are dying in vain for the pursuits of globalist corporations? How do i sugar coat the truth. It's the truth. That's really what you have a problem with, the truth.

I CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! Dude, why are you so thick headed you can't get this? You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm way ahead of you on the whole corporatist agenda. Do you think you have some privileged information from on high?

The truth is exalted and infallible and must be be shouted into the ears of the stupid, greedy, ignorant masses until the day I die, or until they recognize it. You should also be telling the truth as well. Perhaps, once you recognize the truth, you can speak it. You know damn well those soldiers are dying in vain, just like they did in Vietnam. You fucking know it, deep down somewhere, that what I say is true. You know it.

Oh brother. You see, here's the problem. The "stupid, greedy, ignorant masses" won't listen to you. Hell, I won't listen to you, and I agree with much of the essence of what you're screaming, I mean saying. The fact is, you're so wrapped up in your own rhetoric and screaming so loud you haven't even noticed where I agree with you. Man, I've been all over this forum "speaking the truth" about the corporatist agenda, but notably not screaming. I'm one of the few who has. Do a search. Again, if you're so passionate about this, why don't you get off your ass and do something about it instead of shouting into the wind, shouting into a void, in fact.

I'd like to piss in his fathers face while he's crying, for feeding his son all that FOX news bullshit. While he's crying, he's blaming the liberals for "not letting the troops do their job", he's blaming the bleeding hearts for not letting us nuke Baghdad. He still is a hateful little shit. His father deserves all the pain he gets. The people in Iraq do not. And for every torn father here in America, that deserves his torment, there are 50 devastated fathers in Iraq who do not deserve their torment. That is the big difference.

And when America starts peddling bullshit that we must bomb Iran, Jesse's father will be screaming at the top of his lungs that we have to, and will use his dead son as political leverage to get sympathy points for his ignorant position. The reality is, he doesn't care about American foreign policy, he just hates muslims, and wants as many dead as possible for what they did to his son.

He will chastise those who oppose war in Iran for giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and for not supporting the troops, and will be sure to mention his dead son every chance he gets.

That's disgusting and disgraceful, not to mention intentionally inflammatory. I amend my statement.

It must be nice to be such an intellectual elitist and morally superior to all those dumbass rednecks and everyone else that doesn't subscribe one hundred percent to your "truth". Keep screaming though, I'm sure you'll convince . . . . someone? . . . .anyone??

 

[maxcok]

Not an emoticon but........

Thanks Horaven, I'll add that to my toolkit.

This is the problem with the "truth". Regardless of how true it actually is, saying it in a certain way that could possibly anger large amounts or people will make them turn the volume down instantly.

Has nothing to do with you being right or wrong New End. Regardless of it masses of people being blind or not wanting to hear, they will change the channel, turn the page, close the browser of whatever media outlet they are using if someone just comes off being angry. Right or wrong, that's reality.

If you come off just being angry, pissed at the government, screaming how stupid the masses are for allowing this you will lose the support you need to make any head way at all regardless of the topic.

^ What he said. What I said.

 

[Stretch]

^^Ônce again New End...you should heed all of that. You're just not listening. There are more then enough people who are inclined to aggressively fight your message. You can't smash them over the head with the "truth" and expect them to acquiesce. Knowing this, it makes absolutely no sense to alienate the people who actually do agree with you. I'm with Max when I say you're not telling me anything I don't already know, including about the whole corporatist agenda. I could give you my personnel history, experiences and background as examples but I think just my opinion in this case will suffice. Understand that there are much better ways to engage people if you want to turn them on to certain realities that they are not want to listen to, or accept in the first place. Unless of course, that's not your intention at all and you're actually more interested in the unique exalted position of being the only one who "gets it", in which case...well...you really are on your own then, congratulations.

 

[pain4anangel]

That's what you think. Just wait until the dollar collapses, and all the payed off warlords are only receiving crates of toilet paper not to fight. Do you remember what Afghanistan was like abut 4 years ago?
______________________________________________________________

I was also referring to the intentions of the OP. This thread was started so people can pat themselves on the back for the acts of evil. I didn't say anything about governments, that was your miscomprehension, you put that word in there... and then castigate me for dishonest debate tactics.

Toilet paper? You sure don't know anything about Afghanistan lol. :eek5:

My intentions? My intentions were to respect people in MY country who have died or who have been injured in this senseless sham of a war. I wanted to thank the others for the putting themselves on the line even though they shouldn't be there in the first place. I think you miscomprehend everything. I could have mentioned other countries, but I didn't. It was close enough to the 4th of July so I went with my country who actually celebrates the 4th of July.

I was attacked, so I defended myself. If people wanted keep this thread so pure, they could have attacked me in the other thread.

:tired: You can't be attacked if you don't start posting where you should not post to begin with. You are the one who started in with your flaming and bizarre notions out of no where.

What difference does it make what they believe?

Apparently to you it makes all of the difference. You seem to think they all know about the war and all of the bullshit behind it and are still volunteering to have their asses handed to them on a platter. Why change your opinion now? Also, when Maxcok brought up the story about Jesse, you went full out and attacked Jesse's father. You blame our troops for being stupid and now you are blaming their parents too? You do know that not everyone in America owns a computer or television and that some people are still illiterate, right? I am pretty sure Maxcok meant to show you that boys and girls from small towns want out. They don't have access to things we take for granted everyday. Have you ever talked to a recruiter? Their job is to prey on those that do not have the knowledge many of us do in order to get their numbers up. They all can't be as fortunate as you to a college education to have access to "The Truth".

I volunteered, gave money to political campaigns, yadda yadda yadda.

You mean you sat on your butt at the computer and hit forward to a bunch of form letters from politicians and activists? You clicked a button to donate money? Last time I checked, yadda, yadda, yadda wasn't a valid answer. You just make yourself sound like a fool who can't back up his own words.

A vast, vast majority of Iraqis did not deserve this war.

Who said they did? For that matter, who ever said that we needed to be over there? Who in this thread said the war is valid and the troops are over there kicking asses to protect us from the big bad terrorists? Ummm no one. That's who.

How else am I supposed to say they are dying in vain for the pursuits of globalist corporations? How do i sugar coat the truth. It's the truth. That's really what you have a problem with, the truth.

Again, who ever denied this and challenged you on it? Oh that's right...no one. You have been delusional this entire thread and imagining we are all for the war and that we won't listen to what you have to say about America and her greed and dishonesty. Open your "ears". I don't know why you are so adamant about fighting people who agree with you.

The truth is exalted and infallible and must be be shouted into the ears of the stupid, greedy, ignorant masses until the day I die, or until they recognize it. You should also be telling the truth as well. Perhaps, once you recognize the truth, you can speak it. You know damn well those soldiers are dying in vain, just like they did in Vietnam. You fucking know it, deep down somewhere, that what I say is true. You know it.

Why do you make me think of Heaven's Gate, Solar Temple, and People's Temple when you talk like this? :ugh:

I'd like to piss in his fathers face while he's crying, for feeding his son all that FOX news bullshit. While he's crying, he's blaming the liberals for "not letting the troops do their job", he's blaming the bleeding hearts for not letting us nuke Baghdad. He still is a hateful little shit. His father deserves all the pain he gets. The people in Iraq do not. And for every torn father here in America, that deserves his torment, there are 50 devastated fathers in Iraq who do not deserve their torment. That is the big difference.

Hate to :raincloud: on your parade, but you have no chance of finding a chick on this site...just a head's up on that.

No one deserves having their child die. Be it one person or fifty people, they are all sons and daughters and it is a tragedy. Hmmm kinda sounds like why I started this thread :wink:


Oh, and being a History major doesn't qualify you for knowing "The Truth". It just means you will have a hard time finding a job. I have an equally useless major under my belt.


Also, I think I am love with some posters on this thread. Their words and knowledge make me swoon :hug: :love:

 

[B_New End]

So I am back. I see a whole bunch of people thought my intentions were to change minds. They were wrong. I will not reveal my intentions, but like I said, I know what I am doing.

Between 1997 - 2008, I donated massive amounts of time to the political process, in the real world, working fairs, booths, and petitions. Only once did I insult or make anyone angry face to face, although I talked to thousands of people... and she was a racist, and I told it to her face. Back then I was trying to change minds, that is not my intention anymore, at least not the way you think it.

I also donated $400 to two different candidates. A democrat in 2004 and a Republican in 2008, you can guess who, but I will not confirm or deny. Each got $200.

I also worked on a handwritten letter campaign, where i personally wrote over 100 handwritten letters and mailed them for a presidential candidate. Is this as much as you people have given? I don't know, I really don't care, although this is a big dick site, I care not to get in a pissing contest over who was the biggest activist. I know now the game is completely rigged by those who own the media, and people who should have been put in office, if they got it now, it would only be a curse.

Oh.. one other thing I "did". I decided not to join the Marine Corps, although spending over 3 years in NJROTC. It was my career path, but some music, weed, a recruiters propaganda poster and a couple other factors made me stop. ASVAB 99, (of course), and it was pretty much dotted line.

Maxcok... so you knew we had to get out of Vietnam, and didn't buy the lies of the anti-commies, but now you buy the lies of the neo-cons. Looks like you lost your sense of cynicism with old age.

pain4anangel: You may think you can speak for all women at this site, and frankly, I doubt I ever would get one in person from here, but that has never really been my intention. It would be nice, but I'm not stupid, and I was just being honest telling you so. I've been here a lot longer than you, and a gentleman never kisses and tells. Also, just because you are a chick telling me that, doesn't make me give a fuck what you think any more than a dude, and plenty of people hate me or love me enough as it is. You're new here, and you may have noticed your opinion counts more with straight men here, but not with me.
P.S. My dick size has always been in my profile.

Now for a few choice notes

You blame our troops for being stupid and now you are blaming their parents too?

Why should I "honor" stupid people getting killed doing evil acts out of ignorance and hatred? I have a thousand times more honor for a janitor that doesn't kill Iraqis defending their home than a stupid Hannitard killing hajjis with glee. I really wonder where the fuck you people get your moral compass from.

No one deserves having their child die. Be it one person or fifty people, they are all sons and daughters and it is a tragedy.

That is where we have a difference of opinion. I guess you are against the death penalty also. I am not. Tragedy, in the Greek sense, perhaps.

Maxcok:

Masturbating together is so much fun with you, I am going to keep up the jerk-off bud session. You say you are ignoring me, but I know you love to see me work it, or you would actually leave.

I am a pacifist, as I explained, and I would never take up arms against another human, except as a last resort to defend myself or someone else against the threat of immediate bodily harm, possibly to defend my nation from a direct threat of tyranny. However, I do not dictate my own moral authority onto others,

1. pacifists do not believe in self defense. Again, you are no pacifist, maxcok.
2. this reminds me of a story from Sa-adat Hassan Manto, who wrote a whole bunch of short stories about the violence of the 1947 partition between India and Pakistan

Appropriate action

The mohalla was attacked. Some members of the minority community were killed. Those who survived fled for their lives. A couple, however, sought refuge in the cellar of their own house.
Four two days and nights they were seized with fear. But the assailants were nowhere.
Two more days passed. They were no longer haunted by the spectre of death. They longed for food and water.
Four more days went by. By now the couple were no longer afraid of death. Nor were they bothered about their survival.
They came out of hiding.
The man decided to draw the people's attention. 'Please kill us. We have come to surrender,' he said in a feeble voice.
'Killing is a sin in our religion.'
They exchanged glances. Had a pow-wow. They were Jains. And they handed over the fugitive couple to the people of another mohalla for 'appropriate action'.

In other words, all it takes for evil to win in the world is for the good to do nothing.

And who's going... ....My god, you are naive.

Ah. neo-con fear mongering. Do you think the Iraqis cant rule themselves without American guidance? Do you think what they have right now is stable... with the Shia pretty much in control, and the Kurds hardly even acknowledging the national government? It is hard to know what will happen, but we have to leave sometime, and when we do, it is very possible int he next decade or so, a civil war will break out anyways... ... one that would still be our fault.

everything else in this debate is reflective of incredibly simplistic thinking

Actually, I understood the "support the troops" line and believed it. I have changed my mind. I think people should not support the troops if it is an evil war now. It is not simplistic thinking, it took an incredibly complex thought process to finally realize that the whole "support the troops" thing gives support to so much more than the troops. In the end, it gives support to their leaders and their policies. It's part of the culture of military worship.

You know damn well I wasn't saying I personally believe in prophecy or Armageddon scenarios in a biblical sense.

Way to spin it, twister. You know damn well I wasn't implying you were implying Biblical Armageddon. Isn't this fun... oh oh... i think im about to shoot.. shoot with me maxcok!
Armageddon over an Iraqi civil war, Biblical or not, is still delusional.

Seriously, shut the fuck up.

So, umm... when you gonna start that whole ignore thing you said you were gonna do?

Can you name one person on the big pee-pee site you've influenced to your position with your bellowing vitriol? Seriously, give us an answer to that.

For one, changing minds are not my intention, but I wonder, if you think that you are doing anything worthwhile yourself while jerking off on political forums.

I'm way ahead of you on the whole corporatist agenda. Do you think you have some privileged information from on high?

this isn't about information. it's about morality. Do I think I have a more morally pure perspective? Absolutely.

Horaven and stretch:

This is the problem with the "truth". Regardless of how true it actually is, saying it in a certain way that could possibly anger large amounts or people will make them turn the volume down instantly.

Minds do not get changed overnight on forums. It is a very long process. And I am not looking to convince some dunderhead Reich-winger that the war was wrong. Never was my intention. I've stated one of my intentions many times.

 

[43698]

Newend I would like to tell you that you are welcome for me not asking questions about why or what I was gonna do on two other overseas trips I made. I will have you know that one of them directly effects the privaledge you have to run your mouth and act self important. You are a real ass to say I am a tool by taking my statement out of context. Simply put go fuck your mother. I did not come on here and insult your veiws or anyone else I simply said it is wrong to badmouth soldiers for the job they did in Iraq. At the time of the invasion I was not interested in going either. Not because it was or was not a lie but because we honestly had more important matters to attend to in other parts of the world. You think me or any other soldier that sacrificed so much is happy about serving under false pretense? You think I liked getting fucked up and losing my career over some bullshit? You think I like what being on umemployment and handicap because the career I pursued after the military is now out of jobs? NO would be the answer to all those questions. Never the less, I signed a contract to serve in the Army. I took things another step forward by volunteering to train to be an Airborne Ranger knowing full and well that I would be asked to do things that others can't or won't and quite often nobody would know about. To refer to me personally as just a "tool" like I am some jackoff fuckup fratboy wanna be punk is a damn insult. I would think that if you have half the intelligence that you seem to represent with a large vocabulary and condecending nature of posts, well you should know that was a pretty damn big insult.

As for all you republicans and democrats and the retarded ass politicians you support fuck off with your argueing and whitless banter. NEWS FLASH AMERICA THEY ARE BOTH THE SAME DEVIL!!!!! The United States of America is a two headed monster that drinks oils breathes depleted uranium, shits bad credit, and noses around in everyone else's business. If you want real change fire all of your law makers rewrite your constitution and find someone to run the country who is actually literate enough to not only read a speach but, wait for it........write his or her own speach and.........oh this is too good.......Then recall it near to verbatum with out a teleprompter or mumbling and stumbling over each word. The two party system is as outdated as staying married to the mother of your children and is very much just like it. Sounds like a good idea but in today's society is just does not work.

As for the literary geniuses on here who I am sure will crytique my spelling, punctuation, and or mechanics I really give a fuck what you think. It is a goddamn message board that is supposed to be intertaining if you would like to grade English papers and think you are so good at it well.......go get a job as a fucking teacher.


Your welcome to everyone who thanked me for my service. I fought my ass off and never questioned it no matter what I felt. That is not what you guys payed me to do.