Responsibilities of the 1%/Middle class Fighting Poverty/Disease/Racism

[vince]

Reread your post and you'll see multiple opportunities your friend took advantage of.

That's exactly the point. He sees an opportunity and takes advantage of it. Opportunity can be given to another person. But most are either created by thought and a planning process, or they are stumbled upon. But regardless of how you find an opportunity, it takes work to turn them into a success.

I could offer to pay your way through medical school. That's an opportunity. But if you sleep though class, it's not going to amount to much.

It could be said that I gave my friend an opportunity when I hired him. But that isn't correct. He gave me his time, I paid him for it and resold it at a profit. He learned a lot by working for me, but the other 36 people here have the same chance. He's doing something with it. The others are just nine to fivers. (Actually 08.00 to 18.30). They will never be owners. They are workers.

Very few of the 10, 5, or 1% were born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

 

[Klingsor]

That's exactly the point. He sees an opportunity and takes advantage of it . . .

I don't think we're that far apart. I'm not arguing against individual effort, just pointing out that it doesn't take place in a vacuum. Your friend took advantage of many opportunities a less driven person might have missed, but the opportunities themselves came from others.

Along the same lines, you *did* give him an opportunity when you hired him. However mutually beneficial the arrangement may have been, he didn't hire himself. You did that.

Opportunities always exist, to a greater or lesser degree, for everyone. So yes, the caliber of the individual is ultimately the deciding factor. But it's egomaniacal, and simply wrong, for the successful person to look back and say, "I did it all myself, with no help from anyone."

 

[bar4doug]

Yes of course the ultra-rich have way to much of the wealth today and mostly it's a result of super-low taxes. When I was a kid, the middle class had a way better quality of life than they do now, and the really rich folks still had enough to live really well in spite of tax brackets north of 60%. George Bush nailed it when he labeled trickle down, "Voodoo Economics". Borrowing and spending has been way more damaging than "tax and spend" ever was. In the USA, what use to be paid for as it was built, has increasingly been put on the credit card since 1981.

I don't think so.

I think what needs to be examined is the costs of living by the middle-class. It has been written here before that the best times seen in this nation were just after WW2 and into the 70's. And I've responded that America was given a gift after the war, being an industrial powerhouse unscathed by war a ripe for development. By the time the 70's roll around, the cost of being middle class in an area where jobs are plentiful begin to rise, and the two-income family becomes the norm. Eventually there is not enough housing where people want to live and work, so the cost of existing housing rises. Cheap gas allows for a long commute, but only until gas hits $4.00 a gallon, then those bedroom communities in up and coming "new" middle class neighborhoods die on the vine because the jobs aren't local enough to support the development.

I don't think it has to do anything with the tax bracket, but simply how the cost of living has risen when compared to wages. And the rich simply keep their money and let it grow because they are the snowball on the other side of the hill...

My parents and grandparents have told me, "I feel sorry for the younger generations, because you folks will not have the opportunities that we did." And the older I get, the more I see it.

I don't believe raising taxes north of 60 percent will solve anything. The cost of living won't go down simply because taxes were raised.

 

[Jjz1109]

US taxes are so low that the wealthy from other countries use the US as a tax haven. The income inequality of the US is comparable to that of the average banana republic. With so few people owning or controlling so much of the wealth, the income gap is becoming increasingly insurmountable. As this bifurcation increases, so will social unrest.

Like Whitney Huston said, "crack is whack!" Fuzzy must keep smoking it.

 

[StormfrontFL]

Like Whitney Huston said, "crack is whack!" Fuzzy must keep smoking it.

With this you prove you have no defense to Fuzzy's argument. If things continue the way they are there is no doubt a tipping point will occur. Does the French Revolution mean anything to you?

 

[malakos]

Does the French Revolution mean anything to you?

There's was more of an intellectual framework spurring on revolution at that time than there is now. And I'm sure the peasantry in France was worse off than in the current USA.

 

[StormfrontFL]

There's was more of an intellectual framework spurring on revolution at that time than there is now. And I'm sure the peasantry in France was worse off than in the current USA.

No doubt considering the time the lower classes had it worse but who's to say that one day people will tire of paying higher taxes than their boss, giving up raises and bonuses while the higher ups receive 6 figure increases each year, or having to give up just about everything due to the expenses?

 

[malakos]

No doubt considering the time the lower classes had it worse but who's to say that one day people will tire of paying higher taxes than their boss, giving up raises and bonuses while the higher ups receive 6 figure increases each year, or having to give up just about everything due to the expenses?

Also it will take a very long time for people to give up the illusion that they can change things simply by voting. The French could not have had any such illusion since there simply was no popular vote.

 

[StormfrontFL]

Also it will take a very long time for people to give up the illusion that they can change things simply by voting. The French could not have had any such illusion since there simply was no popular vote.

I think people are already seeing through the illusions. How long have we heard that things will change but little to none happens?

 

[Klingsor]

Whether people rise in rebellion or not, the fact that current conditions even have us talking about it suggests that *something* needs to be done.

 

[StormfrontFL]

Whether people rise in rebellion or not, the fact that current conditions even have us talking about it suggests that *something* needs to be done.

Amen!!

 

[Drifterwood]

Keep waiting for that opportunity to be given to you.

 

[deleted213967]

Whether people rise in rebellion or not, the fact that current conditions even have us talking about it suggests that *something* needs to be done.

Don't be so negative. Occupy Wall Street© was a resounding success, wasn't it? :biggrin1:

 

[Klingsor]

Don't be so negative. Occupy Wall Street© was a resounding success, wasn't it? :biggrin1:

Are you saying the protests didn't achieve much, or that the issue wasn't worth protesting?

 

[deleted213967]

Are you saying the protests didn't achieve much, or that the issue wasn't worth protesting?

They certainly achieved considerable overtime earnings for the cleanup crew (who richly deserved it).

What (presumably single, from your use of the singular) issue were they supposed to protest?

This amorphous movement of unwashed nihilists degenerated (aside from the serious occurrences of rape and assault) into fodder for the comic relief industry.

Who even remembers them today?

 

[Klingsor]

They certainly achieved considerable overtime earnings for the cleanup crew (who richly deserved it).

What (presumably single, from your use of the singular) issue were they supposed to protest?

This amorphous movement of unwashed nihilists degenerated (aside from the serious occurrences of rape and assault) into fodder for the comic relief industry.

Who even remembers them today?

I would say there was a central focus on income and wealth inequality, with related concerns about financial malfeasance, social instability, and undue corporate influence on government.

I might find the dissolution of the movement more comical if I could believe the very real problems it addressed weren't still with us.

 

[deleted213967]

I would say there was a central focus on income and wealth inequality, with related concerns about financial malfeasance, social instability, and undue corporate influence on government.

I might find the dissolution of the movement more comical if I could believe the very real problems it addressed weren't still with us.

There were some areas of agreement between conservatives and the (serious) claims of the OWS movement:

- Both hold crony capitalism in contempt (think Solyndra or even Too Big Too Fail).

- Undue corporate influence on government is certainly returned in kind by undue government influence on citizens, including corporate citizens. :biggrin1:

 

[Klingsor]

Undue corporate influence on government is certainly returned in kind by undue government influence on citizens, including corporate citizens. :biggrin1:

But government influence on corporations is sanctioned and limited by the electoral and legislative process, while corporations' influence on government (especially of the clandestine variety) is far less regulated and serves a much more limited range of interests.

It seems we're talking about two distinct varieties of "undue."

 

[malakos]

Both hold crony capitalism in contempt (think Solyndra or even Too Big Too Fail).

Oh come now. "Crony capitalism" is merely the natural progress of the mechanisms of capitalism itself.

 

[Jjz1109]

They certainly achieved considerable overtime earnings for the cleanup crew (who richly deserved it).

What (presumably single, from your use of the singular) issue were they supposed to protest?

This amorphous movement of unwashed nihilists degenerated (aside from the serious occurrences of rape and assault) into fodder for the comic relief industry.

Who even remembers them today?

Hey, those unwashed nihilists all had iPhones and iPads, undoubtedly purchased by mummy and daddy. I saw them. They whipped them out every time the evil, oppressive po-po showed up.

There was a small, pathetic gathering a few weeks ago to commemorate the anniversary. Was laughable. More police and reporters than protesters (sorry, nihilists).

Not only did the clean up crews rack up overtime (note to self: nihilists are NOT friendly to the environment), but police racked up MILLIONS. And they deserve every penny for having to deal with that scum.