Retired military officers to Obama: Keep the ban on gays

Discussion in 'Politics' started by MisterMark, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. MisterMark

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    I think this sends two messages:

    1. If you have any same-sex attractions, you should be ashamed of yourself.

    2. American military men are wimps. Nearly every other modern country in the world (and some not-so-modern) allow all of their citizens to serve in the military with no restrictions based on sexual orientation. Why can't Americans handle it?

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    NEW YORK (AP) — More than 1,000 retired military officers, including several who were top commanders, are urging President Barack Obama and Congress to maintain the law that bars gays from serving openly in the armed forces.

    Obama is consulting with the Pentagon on the issue and says he supports eventual repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which prohibits gays in the military from being open about their sexual orientation. A bill that would allow gays to serve openly has been introduced in Congress.

    A statement issued by the retired officers Tuesday said passage of that bill "would undermine recruiting and retention, impact leadership at all levels, have adverse effects on the willingness of parents who lend their sons and daughters to military service, and eventually break the All-Volunteer Force."

    The Associated Press: Retired military officers: keep ban on gays
     
  2. TurkeyWithaSunburn

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    Last time I checked at 18yo you became an adult and a person was free to make right and wrong decisions.
    A very minute amount of military members join with parental consent at 17yo.

    It's only a matter of time before it's overturned. I think the whole "it'll disrupt leadership" etc comes from the older generations not the new recruits. Younger people are far more accepting of homosexuality than the old guard.

    It's sad that the military has been discharging linguists in languages that are needed. (Arabic, Farsi, Pashtun, and Chinese)
     
  3. B_thickjohnny

    B_thickjohnny New Member

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    It is sad that we are so ass backwards but even that said, it's not necessarily the leaders (old guard) who have problems with this. Many of the young soldiers are from small towns, ass backwards mentalities and know only "beat the fags" as a way to enhance their own masculinity. How many times do we read about young guys being beat up on or off campus for being gay? It's a sad commentary on the mentality of young Americans. Religion and the moral majority is the blame for this, IMHO. These radical churches preach homosexuality is a sin and the young congregation absorbs it as gospel (no pun intended).
     
  4. MisterMark

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    I agree. I wish I had a better opinion about the military, but all of the news reports say that they had to seriously lower their standards over the last few years. They'll accept high-school dropouts and ex-cons, as long as they're heterosexual; on the other hand, if you have a Ph.D. in Arabic languages and you're openly gay, forget it - the U.S. military isn't interested in you.
     
  5. Rugbypup

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    I dunno, cammo pink tanks, would be super. :)
     
  6. midlifebear

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    The desert camou fatigues are already loaded with lots of rose and pink. I much prefer them to the old jungle green fatigues. It's a lot easier to buy shoes and bags to match!

    'Mericuhns are strange. When I'm at my "legal residence" in Nevada, the satellite television feed (about $125 a month for everything except NFL, baseball, and other dull sports -- I'd much rather be physically involved in a sport than sit and watch one), anyway, all of the R rated films and adult-oriented programs have the word FUCK beeped over. But you still hear F*(^(%+ing A)%&*)hole. Often the word bitch or bastard is also bleeped out. These are programs shown after 10:00 PM. It's as if no one has ever heard the word fuck before?

    I see the same US-made movies and programs on Telecanal or Cablevision outside of the USA and the translations of the English dialogue simply notes "maldicion" whenever fuck or seriously interesting "foul" language is used. But they make no effor to bleep over the fucks, cunts, bitches, and assholes used in the dialogue. The few times I see John Stuart's Daily Show (the European or Weekend Edition), every time he says fuck it is never bleeped out. But in the USA? Oh, no! We can't say that! But we can allude to it. We can snicker about it being bleeped. We know what's being said. We just can't allow our special sweet morally correct ears hear the words.

    And so it is with being gay. If I had been drafted to serve in Viet Nam I would have gone. But the form you filled out to be filtered for military service specifically asked if you currently or ever had engaged in homosexual behavior. So, why lie? I was classified 4F as soon as the first recruiter glanced over my form (and told that my life was over, would never amount to anything, no one would hire me, I was a deviant, a burden on society, mentally ill and I would die poor) before being kicked of the military base where they conducted the health and eligibility screenings.

    Funny thing though, when I applied to volunteer for two + years with VISTA (what used to be a form of the Peace Corps, but serving within the USA) there were no questions about my sexuality except whether I was male or female. And the VISTA people were happy to have me. And then I run into men who have served in the military (especially the Navy) who are still hanging out with the same long-term companion they met, fell in love with, and had/have monogamous sex with while serving a 4-year hitch. Lots of them, by the way. When these men and women "come out" then you get VFW codgers deciding they don't want the men and women they served with in WWII or Viet Nam to parade and celebrate their patriotism, all because they've come out and are now publically gay.

    Yeah, like that's going to make us all shiver and run back into our closets (which I need to clean by the way -- too much junk is stored in it now).

    I support "our troops" and all of them -- gay or straight -- even though it's quite obvious the military attracts the most bigotted losers with marginal IQ's. And by that I'm not referring to men and women who serve in the infantry. I'm talking about those fabulous West Point graduates and those spiffy dudes and dudettes cranked out by the Air Force Academy.

    The very idea of "Don't ask don't tell" reeks of a five-year-old mentality of "I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours." Heterosexuals need to get the fuck over themselves, especially the retired ones from the military. Fuck 'em.
     
  7. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    The military is subservient to the representatives of the people. Obama should have the balls to tell them this is how it is. A room full of brass can be intimidating to anyone. It should not be so the President of the United States nor to Congress.

    This is like racial and sexual integration all over again. If I were an officer I'd want the best person for the job, male or female, gay or straight, color or religion don't matter to me. My goal would always be to complete my missions with the fewest casualties. To quote M, "I have no qualms about sending you to your death but I won't do it on a whim." How can any officer do that when the pool of candidates is restricted in such an arbitrary manner?

    As I understand it from the people down on the ground in Iraq, there are many semi-open gay people serving and most of the brass looks the other way just to keep their personnel rosters filled. Apparently few of the rank and file have problems with this.
     
  8. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    Of course they do.

    Similarly, 10 out of 10 retirees in my old neighborhood agree, "Get the fuck off my lawn, punk!"
     
  9. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    All military recruits should share the same barracks, men AND women, gay or straight. Showers and open bathroom stalls.... men AND women.
     
  10. pym

    pym New Member

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    There's that Chicken-Hawk again.......who will never serve his country's military himself. {he's too Cool for that School}
    Yet he knows just how it oughta be for "OUR" service men and women.

    HA HA haaa haaaaa!!
     
  11. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    I totally agree that gays should be able to "tell" when an officer or fellow soldier "asks".

    But something also tells me that under this Obama administration, gays are not being unduly discharged who "tell". Of course, I admit to not having the slightest bit of proof. I'm just going on a gut feeling.

    The main thrust toward repealing "don't ask, don't tell" is political. It's a part of the gay rights political agenda. I'm not qualifying this statement so as to say this is a good or bad thing. I'm just saying it's one item on the list to further legitimize the gay individual. But it's getting to be less and less about keeping and recruiting soldiers and officers as it may have been a few years back.

    All the energy is flowing in the gay movements direction. We all know this. As for gays openly serving, gay adoption, gay marriage... we have to now give middle America a bit of time to adjust, to assimilate the new realities. Change will come (though maybe not at the speed the activists would prefer).
     
    #11 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 1, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  12. houtx48

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    Was this the sour puss Elaine Donally's list and if it is i doubt it's even real, just something she made up to keep her ugly ass in the media
     
  13. HazelGod

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    Been watching Starship Troopers again, FK? :biggrin1:
     
  14. edonline

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    The US government is always ready to praise Israel's army and it allows gays to openly serve. Isn't it a bit of a hypocrisy to say that the US' services aren't in the same category?
     
  15. kalipygian

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    There have also been retired generals and admirals who have said that DADT should be scrapped.
     
  16. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    KnightsOut.org | An Organization of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender US Military Academy Alumni and their Supporters

    These retired officers are either incredibly narrow minded, or from an era where people associated homosexuality with predatory behavior and are out of touch with the modern military that includes "quietly out" personnel.

    I'd much rather see "1,000 retired military officers" putting their energy and influence toward discussing the issue of rampant sexual assault in the military, than a non issue of where you lick or stick it in your private life. :no:
     
  17. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    When I was in the Army, I noticed that there were a lot of gay jokes flying around and some hostility toward gays (just verbal). But, most people I come across who knew a somewhat openly gay soldier were pretty tolerant of it. Most in the military I've come across really don't care if another SM is gay/bi, as long as they aren't touched or hit on. Many others have gay/bi friends back home, so they're pretty tolerant already.

    I agree that there may be a few problems at first, but not nearly as many as people would think. As for breaking unit cohesion, there really won't be any problems. In a life or death situation, I don't care what your orientation/religion/gender/race/etc. is as long as I know you have my back.
     
  18. cruztbone

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    We will have a US military that finally respects all of its members no matter what their sexual orientation. period.
     
  19. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    I agree. It's not an if, it's a when, just like gay marriage. The walls are already breaking down.
     
  20. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    This has been my attitude since the controversy began about allowing women in combat zones. The best person for the job is the person to have in the field not only because it allows that person to do the job, but because having the best person helps everyone else in the unit complete their mission as effectively and safely as possible.

    This isn't just about the gay service person, but the effectiveness and safety of all the other personnel who serve. If a gay man or a racial minority or a woman or a lesbian of color is the best sniper/pilot/tank gunner/computer tech/medic/bosun a unit can have, then for the sake of this country and the lives of her bravest, PUT HER IN THE JOB!

    Beyond that, I don't see how any citizen in this country can begrudge anyone who would put their lives on the line for it. And anyone who does deserves every right and privilege this country has to offer.
     
    #20 jason_els, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
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