Reverse Interracial

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by naughty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naughty)</div><div class='quotemain'>Where have you been? People of all races are getting plastic surgery done at an alarming rate. If she wants to have her nose done so be it.How is that different from women of all races and ethnicities who spend tons of money to have breast enchancement, face lifts all in the search for love, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It may or may not be self hatred.

[post=308752]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

She&#39;s had her boobs done also, and yes, I think there&#39;s a difference.

Originally posted by naughty@
Oh and about her hair honey every mother that has had a child with thick curly hair says thank God for anything that helps them to comb it. I see plenty of Ethiopian, Jewish, Italian and African women with some help from Dark and Lovely too&#33; OK? so we are not going to go there&#33;

[post=308752]Quoted post[/post]​

I wasn&#39;t. It was intended as a statement of fact, not a value judgment.



<!--QuoteBegin-naughty
Monster&#39;s Ball... OK maybe someone dropped me on my head, but I didnt see the movie so much a degradation of Halle but more a celebration of two people finding life in the ashes of total depravity. IF you really looked at beginning of the movie you would see a metaphor for the whole experience .Halle is driving the hell out of her car. Driving the tires the engine, the chassis, you name it down to the bone. She hasnt fixed it because she doesnt have the where with all to do so. So she is driving it until it just dies. That is what she and Billy Bob were doing with their lives, living on the fringes of humanity. Think of how he even had sex with the prostitute, detached and like a dog. It took the chance experience of her son being hit to break her down so far that she didnt even see him as a white man possibly a racist.He was a port in the storm and she couldnt go any further. When they had sex it was like watching two starving people eat .IT was not pretty but it was cathartic experience for them both. They are both healing and it serves as a turning point in the movie. She makes him look at her. From then on he too begins to act like a man and not an animal in a uniform. At the end when she discovers that he was her husband&#39;s executioner she has to make a decision. Do I throw away this most unlikely gift or do I take it and see where it goes?When she sees that he has buried her son next to his, her mind is made up for her....

[post=308752]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]
Don&#39;t get me wrong, Halle&#39;s a talented actress, but the role in Monster&#39;s Ball is definitely demeaning. A "helpless" black woman falls in love with a redneck son of a bitch, who kills her husband, then gets to fuck her in the ass. Why do you think *several* other black actresses turned it down? I know, as a black male, I have no problem admitting a script like that is patronizing and all too typical of Hollywood. What movies do you know of where a superstar white actress falls in love with a black man who kills her white husband and they have a passionate love scene? Please point that out to me. Imagine a movie about a young Jewish woman in Israel who falls in love with a Palestinian rebel who kills her husband, in the process does an explicit sex scene, and later moves to Iraq with him where they live happily ever after. How do you think Jewish men would respond? Do you think the Jewish men who control Hollywood studios would fund such a film?


And LOL@ her acting like she was winning some huge prize and breaking ground for actresses "of color", then turning around and making shitty movies where she sexualizes herself and perpetuates negative stereotypes of black women.

(BTW that "bad acting" comment was a reference to her Oscar acceptance speech.)

 

[naughty]

OK Dr.D,

I guess you told me&#33; I hadnt really looked at it like that .For once iIwas trying to look at the underlying story line without adding the element of color and racial issues to it. Believe me as you well know I am not walking around like Pollyanna. As for Halle&#39;s acceptance speech, I know that was not her best role by far but she got a dog gone Oscar&#33; That above so many things will help her to be able to command the kind of salary and roles that she so deserves. I know about Angela Bassett turning down the role. I think that was her prerogative, but I was also quite disappointed in her for making the nasty comment about Halle in the press. In terms of the hair, Black women have gone through so many issues about it I long ago learned to leave that hot potatoe alone&#33; LOL&#33;
Perhaps it is just shear stubborness that prevents me from looking for things on my person to change but I feel I have as much right to be the unaltered me as the next person. IF someone doesnt like it peace and love, keep stepping&#33; I will do some things, but unless it is for major cosmetic reconstruction or health issues who ever gets me gets me warts and all (Well... maybe not with warts, ewwwwwww&#33; )

Naughty

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by naughty
I know about Angela Bassett turning down the role. I think that was her prerogative, but I was also quite disappointed in her for making the nasty comment about Halle in the press.

[post=308978]Quoted post[/post]​

Vanessa Williams turned down the part as well. As for Angela Bassett, I applaud her for being conscious of the roles that she chooses/plays, unlike some other "African American" actors/actresses. And as far as people saying she&#39;s "bitter" by making these statements is missing the point. She was asked about the movie and the role and gave an answer. She also stated it wasn&#39;t an attack on Halle, but she didn&#39;t agree with the role and passed on it. Nothing but honesty, which some people can&#39;t deal with.

 

[jonb]

I think everyone in Hollywood&#39;s done plastic surgery. If it&#39;s not plastic surgery, it&#39;s an eating disorder. Maybe both.

 

[Lex]

And the pressure of the beaurty ideals get to everyone--Halle Berry isn&#39;t the fisrt actor/star to get work--Britney, Janet, nearly everyone has something done. Stand without judgement of others. If your vitality depended upon how many millions of people thought you were beautiful, who knows what you might be willing to do?

I dont think the stars as less for having it done as I do think of our society as less for being so incredibly srutinizing of what we feel is ideal beauty that the pressure becomes incredible. Truth be told, most models look like little boys in person. Says a lot about men doesn&#39;t it?

 

[naughty]

Lex,
Now that last statement was very deep .I think we could talk about that all day.But you do make a great point about the pressure we put on the stars to be the ideal. They are our ideal men and women, the public however does them great disservice in not allowing them to be real make mistakes, age and have physical flaws. I think there is a great element of envy and jealously in play as well. So often people even unconsciously feel that if you are just like me then why shouldnt you be me or why cant I have to goodies being better has afforded you. ..

Naughty

 

[BruceSter]

However, I don&#39;t understand what this crap about "white features" is all about. I have seen many black women who are very attractive without looking "white", those special things we conceive to be typical for black faces (thick lips, high cheekbones, special shapes of the cranial bones) and for black bodies (curvaceousness with big hips/tits or extreme slenderness) are as sexy to me as are "white features". Anyone who says that those are unsexy or not beautiful just isn&#39;t well.

Bruce

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

My point is that "naturalness" does not seem to matter and it&#39;s more about women trying to fit society&#39;s perception of beauty by whatever means necessary, natural or not. It&#39;s all about fitting some standard of beauty, whether you agree with that standard or not.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by Lex
Truth be told, most models look like little boys in person. Says a lot about men doesn&#39;t it?

[post=309210]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah, it says a lot about the gay men that run the fashion industry. I agree.

However, it still doesn&#39;t change the fact that Caucasian features are seen as more desirable.

 

[jonb]

Originally posted by Dr. Dilznick+May 9 2005, 10:31 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr. Dilznick &#064; May 9 2005, 10:31 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Lex
Truth be told, most models look like little boys in person. Says a lot about men doesn&#39;t it?

[post=309210]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah, it says a lot about the gay men that run the fashion industry. I agree.

However, it still doesn&#39;t change the fact that Caucasian features are seen as more desirable.

[post=309510]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t know if the term "gay" would describe it. Males primarily attracted to adult males (e.g., gays) are significantly less likely to be child molesters than males primarily attracted to adult females. The latter generally make the complex even worse because the girls they do molest are generally close relatives. I&#39;m talking nieces, daughters, stepdaughters, foster daughters, and girlfriends&#39; daughters.

Jenny et al. actually only found two cases of same-sex molestation out of 269 victims.

Carole Jenny, Tom Roesler, and Kimberly Poyer, "Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?," Pediatrics, 94(1), July 1994, pp. 41-44.

 

[Lex]

Originally posted by Dr. Dilznick@May 9 2005, 02:31 PM
Yeah, it says a lot about the gay men that run the fashion industry. I agree.

However, it still doesn&#39;t change the fact that Caucasian features are seen as more desirable.

[post=309510]Quoted post[/post]​

So do we villify the people who feel and react to the pressure or the societal powers that force it upon us all?

 

[naughty]

Lex,

I guess in an ideal world we would all be "happy to be you and me". But as you know we live in a very much less than ideal world. So there are people of all races shapes and colors walking around feeling very bad about themselves because they dont fit someone&#39;s idea of perfection.
I will never forget a story that Iyanla Vanzant told in one of her books about her struggles with self hatred. She had internalized her father&#39;s rejection of herelf and her mother. She had written him an letter asking him why he rejected her, hated her and thought she was so ugly when she actually looked very much like him. That was too deep for me. He was was rejecting the him in her&#33;
I think that some people of ethnicity often in an attempt to fit very narrow and ever shifting standards of beauty do change themselves to their own detriment. We dont like to talk about that very dark and lovely woman who wears bright red hair and grey contact lenses. She says that she is making a fashion statement. But when you see her what are you thinking? Or that beautiful asian girl who has had her eyes straightened and hair stripped of all of its natural color? To me what I see is much more eloquent then anyone could ever try to explain.
I am very careful however of even discussing these issues with friends who this may describe because of the major explosion it illicits. If it is just a fashion statement, why is the reaction so out of proportions to the question? We have done such a job one one another. Will we ever really allow each other to be "Free to be you and me?"

Naughty

 

[Lex]

I don&#39;t disagree with you Naughty. I grew up with very little self esteem--my dad and mos tof my 1st cousins are all very fair skinned (some with curly hair). I always felt less attractive because I was brown and my hair was not curly. I got teased for having browner skin--by family members no less&#33; It took many, many years for me to really understand that other people&#39;s views on beauty (and my own) had little to do with actual attractiveness and more to do with socisetal pressures. As such, I have gotten to a point where I refuse to let the superficial opinions f an ignorant society control my self esteem. It is sad that many people have felt as Ayanla felt. Very sad.

 

[naughty]

Lex,

There was a reason that Dr.Seuss wrote stories like The Sneetches.I am so sorry you went through that .I feel that behavior was absolutely unaccetable. Children and sometimes adults can be so senselessly cruel and the scars can last for a life time. I too experienced similar behavior in my family however it was for the opposite reason. There is so much stupidity that we heap upon one another when we could all be so much further along the road to happiness if we just accepted one another and treated others in the way that we wished to be treated.

Naughty

 

[Blood rose]

Originally posted by Lex@May 10 2005, 04:24 AM
I don&#39;t disagree with you Naughty. I grew up with very little self esteem--my dad and mos tof my 1st cousins are all very fair skinned (some with curly hair). I always felt less attractive because I was brown and my hair was not curly. I got teased for having browner skin--by family members no less&#33; It took many, many years for me to really understand that other people&#39;s views on beauty (and my own) had little to do with actual attractiveness and more to do with socisetal pressures. As such, I have gotten to a point where I refuse to let the superficial opinions f an ignorant society control my self esteem. It is sad that many people have felt as Ayanla felt. Very sad.

[post=309694]Quoted post[/post]​

Sorry to hear that man. . You should read some stuff by Franz Fanon.

 

[13788]

RLS:

Originally posted by Dr. Dilznick+May 7 2005, 07:53 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr. Dilznick &#064; May 7 2005, 07:53 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by naughty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naughty)</div><div class='quotemain'>Where have you been? People of all races are getting plastic surgery done at an alarming rate. If she wants to have her nose done so be it.How is that different from women of all races and ethnicities who spend tons of money to have breast enchancement, face lifts all in the search for love, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It may or may not be self hatred.

[post=308752]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

She&#39;s had her boobs done also, and yes, I think there&#39;s a difference.


<!--QuoteBegin-naughty@
Oh and about her hair honey every mother that has had a child with thick curly hair says thank God for anything that helps them to comb it. I see plenty of Ethiopian, Jewish, Italian and African women with some help from Dark and Lovely too&#33; OK? so we are not going to go there&#33;

[post=308752]Quoted post[/post]​

I wasn&#39;t. It was intended as a statement of fact, not a value judgment.



<!--QuoteBegin-naughty
Monster&#39;s Ball... OK maybe someone dropped me on my head, but I didnt see the movie so much a degradation of Halle but more a celebration of two people finding life in the ashes of total depravity. IF you really looked at beginning of the movie you would see a metaphor for the whole experience .Halle is driving the hell out of her car. Driving the tires the engine, the chassis, you name it down to the bone. She hasnt fixed it because she doesnt have the where with all to do so. So she is driving it until it just dies. That is what she and Billy Bob were doing with their lives, living on the fringes of humanity. Think of how he even had sex with the prostitute, detached and like a dog. It took the chance experience of her son being hit to break her down so far that she didnt even see him as a white man possibly a racist.He was a port in the storm and she couldnt go any further. When they had sex it was like watching two starving people eat .IT was not pretty but it was cathartic experience for them both. They are both healing and it serves as a turning point in the movie. She makes him look at her. From then on he too begins to act like a man and not an animal in a uniform. At the end when she discovers that he was her husband&#39;s executioner she has to make a decision. Do I throw away this most unlikely gift or do I take it and see where it goes?When she sees that he has buried her son next to his, her mind is made up for her....

[post=308752]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]
Don&#39;t get me wrong, Halle&#39;s a talented actress, but the role in Monster&#39;s Ball is definitely demeaning. A "helpless" black woman falls in love with a redneck son of a bitch, who kills her husband, then gets to fuck her in the ass. Why do you think *several* other black actresses turned it down? I know, as a black male, I have no problem admitting a script like that is patronizing and all too typical of Hollywood. What movies do you know of where a superstar white actress falls in love with a black man who kills her white husband and they have a passionate love scene? Please point that out to me. Imagine a movie about a young Jewish woman in Israel who falls in love with a Palestinian rebel who kills her husband, in the process does an explicit sex scene, and later moves to Iraq with him where they live happily ever after. How do you think Jewish men would respond? Do you think the Jewish men who control Hollywood studios would fund such a film?


And LOL@ her acting like she was winning some huge prize and breaking ground for actresses "of color", then turning around and making shitty movies where she sexualizes herself and perpetuates negative stereotypes of black women.

(BTW that "bad acting" comment was a reference to her Oscar acceptance speech.)

[post=308965]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


I&#39;m a black male too, and it&#39;s getting very old reading people hating on Halle for representing "demeaning" stereotypes of black women with that character. Why do some black people believe that every representation of us in the media has to be one of shining virtue? How boring is that? We&#39;re just as fucked up as anyone else, and we need to get over worrying about what the hell white people think of us when they watch movies like Monster&#39;s Ball. The only kind of person who&#39;s going to think that a character like that represents all of black America is the kind who&#39;s already racist. Also, that was a damn good role and she kicked ass in it. The only reason so many other high-profile actresses turned it down is because they were uncomfortable with the nudity and sexuality. Think about it, besides Halle, when was the last time you&#39;ve seen black nudity on (legitimate) film?

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by RLS+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RLS)</div><div class='quotemain'>

I&#39;m a black male too, and it&#39;s getting very old reading people hating on Halle for representing "demeaning" stereotypes of black women with that character. Why do some black people believe that every representation of us in the media has to be one of shining virtue? How boring is that? We&#39;re just as fucked up as anyone else, and we need to get over worrying about what the hell white people think of us when they watch movies like Monster&#39;s Ball. The only kind of person who&#39;s going to think that a character like that represents all of black America is the kind who&#39;s already racist. Also, that was a damn good role and she kicked ass in it.

[post=310217]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

Very naive statement. The point I was trying to make is that this is typical Hollywood. Just 60 years ago, blacks only filled roles of maids, nannies, shoeshine boys, watermelon patch thieves, etc. If people had your attitude, that&#39;s exactly what we&#39;d still be playing today. "Hey, it&#39;s just a fictional movie it doesn&#39;t mean anything". Hollywood plays a big part in how people perceive life around us.

And I think we all can agree Hollywood has never given us as blacks a fair shake on how our stories are told, the types of roles we are offered, and the types of films they will fund for us to share with the given public. But as with anything in history, there are *some* blacks willing to accept that.


<!--QuoteBegin-RLS
The only reason so many other high-profile actresses turned it down is because they were uncomfortable with the nudity and sexuality.

[post=310217]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]

Bassett: &#39;Monster&#39; Role Was Demeaning

By The Associated Press

NEW YORK (AP) - Angela Bassett turned down a lead role in the movie "Monster&#39;s Ball" because she believed an affair the character had was demeaning and stereotypical, the actress said.

"It&#39;s about character, darling," she told Newsweek for the July 1 issue, which goes on newsstands Monday. "I wasn&#39;t going to be a prostitute on film. I couldn&#39;t do that because it&#39;s such a stereotype about black women and sexuality."

The actress made it clear that she didn&#39;t mean to criticize Halle Berry, who starred in the movie as a troubled waitress who had an affair with her husband&#39;s executioner. Berry won an Oscar for the role.

Bassett was one of several actresses who passed on the role in "Monster&#39;s Ball."

"It&#39;s about putting something out there you can be proud of 10 years later," she said. "I mean, Meryl Streep won Oscars without all that."

Think about it, besides Halle, when was the last time you&#39;ve seen black nudity on (legitimate) film?

[post=310217]Quoted post[/post]​

Exactly my point.

 

[Landshark77]

You know.... I wish there was more white on black porn out there.

Hell, I am an equal opportunity fuck. So race doesnt matter.

Any takers?

 

[Lex]

There is a TON of interracial porn out there. I have DVDs and VHs tapes of black men fucking white/asian women and white men fucking black women. The largest sections in the video stores near me are the Black/Interracial" sections. I&#39;m not sure where you gusy have been looking. It&#39;s all over the place. Really.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Originally posted by Lex@May 15 2005, 07:51 AM
There is a TON of interracial porn out there. I have DVDs and VHs tapes of black men fucking white/asian women and white men fucking black women. The largest sections in the video stores near me are the Black/Interracial" sections. I&#39;m not sure where you gusy have been looking. It&#39;s all over the place. Really.

[post=311260]Quoted post[/post]​

I agree. It&#39;s very easy to find in Socal.