Rioting in St. Louis

Eric_8

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And this is only serving to affirm my foundational point... the facts can be cooked to sway an audience to turn a blind eye to or accept an injustice.

Such as? This mindset is no different from some saying that "facts" of the initial protestors are totally bogus and were made in a brazen attempt to wrongfully convict a white police officer.

If you'll accept that that sort of skepticism is fair, I will certainly accept that your is equally fair...as the two are one in the same.
 

Popyuu

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And this is only serving to affirm my foundational point... the facts can be cooked to sway an audience to turn a blind eye to or accept an injustice.

(In movie guy voice) In a world...one man stands...about a couple feet from certain...or err possible death....from the hands of an unarmed man....his only chance...is his...years of training...back up...common sense....possibly the criminal running away...and umm...his gun and six bullets. Coming this August! The movie you haven't been waiting or wanting to see. WHY WOULD YOU EVEN DO THAT...YOU HAD SO MANY OTHER CHOICES! Directed by Another one of those sorts of police departments. Starring, People that look just like you.
 

NC_BBC

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Such as? This mindset is no different from some saying that "facts" of the initial protestors are totally bogus and were made in a brazen attempt to wrongfully convict a white police officer.

If you'll accept that that sort of skepticism is fair, I will certainly accept that your is equally fair...as the two are one in the same.

Definitely. Each argument is equally capable of being total bullshit.

BUT....when you bring history into the subject, when you mention what HAS happened, what continues to happen, the trend that we see escalatin...which do you think is more likely to be the case. You may remain unbiased, but I don't.
 

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(In movie guy voice) In a world...one man stands...about a couple feet from certain...or err possible death....from the hands of an unarmed man....his only chance...is his...years of training...back up...common sense....possibly the criminal running away...and umm...his gun and six bullets. Coming this August! The movie you haven't been waiting or wanting to see. WHY WOULD YOU EVEN DO THAT...YOU HAD SO MANY OTHER CHOICES! Directed by Another one of those sorts of police departments. Starring, People that look just like you.

They don't make an emoticon to express how hard I laughed at this...... Seriously!!!!!!! :haha:
 

Eric_8

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Definitely. Each argument is equally capable of being total bullshit.

BUT....when you bring history into the subject, when you mention what HAS happened, what continues to happen, the trend that we see escalatin...which do you think is more likely to be the case. You may remain unbiased, but I don't.

You know what, after all this time, I agree with you 100%.

What is this escalating trend? Please provide numbers.

For what it's worth, I'm tickled you've labeled me unbiased on this matter. I don't fault you for being unbiased, but at least you can admit it...some aren't quite so forthright with their emotions here.
 

DickJagger

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can anyone explain to me how this case got racially charged? other than the fact that blacks have pulled the card on this one. Any proof of him being racially targeted? Because regardless of being black-
=he was a huge man,
=robbery suspect
=uncooperative and combative with the police officer.
Color has nothing to do with it. If he was white and that abrasive with police he would be dead as well. I believe in being rational nor have i picked a side for this case. Just going off what what we know. (him being a teen, going to college soon is nice, but has nothing to do with this case)
 
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Popyuu

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They don't make an emoticon to express how hard I laughed at this...... Seriously!!!!!!! :haha:

Ha i'm glad. This is a very tough subject to deal with.

On a side note though: I wonder if i could take that to the big screen. Pretty sure it's neve....shit! They beat me (ha not literally) to it. :wink:
 

Popyuu

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can anyone explain to me how this case got racially charged? other than the fact that blacks have pulled the card on this one. Any proof of him being racially targeted? Because regardless of being black-
=he was a huge man,
=robbery suspect
=uncooperative and combative with the police officer.
Color has nothing to do with it. If he was white and that abrasive with police he would be dead as well. I belive in being rational nor have i picked a side for this case. Just going off what what we know. (him being a teen, going to college soon is nice, but has nothing to do with this case)

hahaha i like how him going to college has nothing to do with the case but pot does. Which makes me wonder. When will Michael Blieden's murder spree start?
 

b.c.

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Fair enough. Then a follow up. Why is this happening predominantly in the black community and not across other minority communities, to lesser extents, or at all?

By "this" I assume you mean the protests and outrage?

Why does any set of continuing atrocities continue to occur but one of them somehow becomes "the straw"?

The question could be just as legitimately asked
"Why has it taken so long for people to have had enough of it?" Mind you, it's not just black people out there protesting in Ferguson.

Lol. So you get to decide who are the acceptable witnesses? What if conflicting accounts happen to come out from other eye witnesses? These two women were not the only witnesses.

I said nothing about acceptable or unacceptable. I said they seem to be CREDIBLE witnesses in that from two different vantage points they describe the same events, they seem to be quite forthright and certain about what they've seen, and we haven't been given any reason to disbelieve them.

(Not yet at least. No doubt they'll come up with something.)

If conflicting accounts happen to come out from equally believable witnesses, they would have to be taken into account too.

I've seen mention here of "dozens of witnesses" who corroborate Wilson's account, but have seen no names or links referencing them.

And online search turns up predominately right winged and wacko sites that claim "dozens of witnesses" in their headlines. But in the text only one "Josie", a friend of officer Wilson's, is named.

Wilson's himself has never given any public statement, we have his account via the Ferguson police force (or at least, their legal reps) and if there were all of these dozens of witnesses standing around and present at the time of the incident, why are we only now just hearing of them?

Not to necessarily discount them, but legitimate questions, I would consider in deciding the reliability of such.


And as I predicted:
"All money will go to the cop who did his job against the Negro criminal," according to New Empire Knights of the KKK.

KKK raising money for Ferguson police officer


HM do you need the address or do you already have it?



I commend them for at least being honest enough to state, up front, their true feelings.


And this is only serving to affirm my foundational point... the facts can be cooked to sway an audience to turn a blind eye to or accept an injustice.


As they were with Martin's murder. Though I predicted such, days ago, the similarities of how this is all developing is almost astounding even to me.

Almost.
 
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craigsmith

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Michael Brown (aka the "Gentle Giant") rap sheet:


Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo: 565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

In addition to this he had an extensive juvenile record, which, by law, remains sealed
 

Popyuu

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Michael Brown (aka the "Gentle Giant") rap sheet:


Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo: 565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

In addition to this he had an extensive juvenile record, which, by law, remains sealed

And that right there is the very nature of racism and it's after effects. The presumption of guilt and criminal intent no matter what happens or why. And thats why race relations in america are the way they are. And why it will stay that way for many.

Sooo...about Rick Perry and Chris Christy.
 

ConanTheBarber

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Michael Brown (aka the "Gentle Giant") rap sheet:


Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo: 565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

In addition to this he had an extensive juvenile record, which, by law, remains sealed

"Note that the defendant in this case lives in Troy, MO, which is 47 miles from Ferguson, MO, according to Google Maps. Also note that the defendant was born in 1997, which would make him 17, rather than 18. It's safe to say that these charges are being falsely attributed and the person spreading this is libeling Mike Brown."

That's from the DailyKos.
[ click me ]
 

Calboner

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Michael Brown (aka the "Gentle Giant") rap sheet:


Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo: 565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

In addition to this he had an extensive juvenile record, which, by law, remains sealed

"Note that the defendant in this case lives in Troy, MO, which is 47 miles from Ferguson, MO, according to Google Maps. Also note that the defendant was born in 1997, which would make him 17, rather than 18. It's safe to say that these charges are being falsely attributed and the person spreading this is libeling Mike Brown."

That's from the DailyKos.
[ click me ]
Somebody give Craig a towel to wipe the egg off his face with.

In a similar vein, here's some more news about that "strong-arm robbery":

– Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Victim Blows Up In Their Face (VIDEO)

When the Ferguson police department released the name of Darren Wilson, they also chose to release video footage which they claimed was of Michael Brown robbing a convenience store for some cigars.

The problem is, the video shows Michael Brown at the register, paying for the cigars.

From observation, it looks as if he had tried to buy more, but then was unable to afford it, hence why he left several packets on the counter. This prompted the store owner to come out from behind the counter and have a discussion with him, which prompted the shove witnessed in the full video.

Whatever words were exchanged between the man in the video and the store owner, they were not considered very serious, as the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store.​
 

ConanTheBarber

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(Don't know why you can't edit posts today.)

Further to post above, the St. Louis County Prosecutor's office had already indicated that Brown had no prior misdemeanors or felonies against him.
 

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By "this" I assume you mean the protests and outrage?

Why does any set of continuing atrocities continue to occur but one of them somehow becomes "the straw"?

The question could be just as legitimately asked
"Why has it taken so long for people to have had enough of it?" Mind you, it's not just black people out there protesting in Ferguson.



I said nothing about acceptable or unacceptable. I said they seem to be CREDIBLE witnesses in that from two different vantage points they describe the same events, they seem to be quite forthright and certain about what they've seen, and we haven't been given any reason to disbelieve them.

(Not yet at least. No doubt they'll come up with something.)

If conflicting accounts happen to come out from equally believable witnesses, they would have to be taken into account too.

I've seen mention here of "dozens of witnesses" who corroborate Wilson's account, but have seen no names or links referencing them.

And online search turns up predominately right winged and wacko sites that claim "dozens of witnesses" in their headlines. But in the text only one "Josie", a friend of officer Wilson's, is named.

Wilson's himself has never given any public statement, we have his account via the Ferguson police force (or at least, their legal reps) and if there were all of these dozens of witnesses standing around and present at the time of the incident, why are we only now just hearing of them?

Not to necessarily discount them, but legitimate questions, I would consider in deciding the reliability of such.





I commend them for at least being honest enough to state, up front, their true feelings.





As they were with Martin's murder. Though I predicted such, days ago, the similarities of how this is all developing is almost astounding even to me.

Almost.

I get that it's not just black people protesting. But the "this" to which I am referring are the tragedies of black men dying during police altercations. A legitimate question about attitude, motivation, pride, respect, whatever when confronting police. . . .

These tragedies are not happening in middle class black neighborhoods.

Next, ARE YOU SERIOUS???? Because you don't have the names or links to the "dozens of eyewitnesses" you are not satisfied? The prudent thing to do (which is absolutely non existent in this whole tragedy) is to investigate, gather the information, protect the identity of witnesses before any possible trial, and go from there. And you want a press conference from Wilson??? The man is probably in hiding for fear of his life! This whole thing has been a clusterf**k of heightened emotions with media, protesters, sharpton, you name it posturing without any clear cut facts. But EVERYONE has an opinion. Think we all need to wait for all the details to be gathered, verified, and shared. And it's going to take time (why are we only hearing of them now - yep, cause it's all made up. Get your conspiracy on!)
 

Jjz1109

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Somebody give Craig a towel to wipe the egg off his face with.

In a similar vein, here's some more news about that "strong-arm robbery":

– Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Victim Blows Up In Their Face (VIDEO)

When the Ferguson police department released the name of Darren Wilson, they also chose to release video footage which they claimed was of Michael Brown robbing a convenience store for some cigars.

The problem is, the video shows Michael Brown at the register, paying for the cigars.

From observation, it looks as if he had tried to buy more, but then was unable to afford it, hence why he left several packets on the counter. This prompted the store owner to come out from behind the counter and have a discussion with him, which prompted the shove witnessed in the full video.

Whatever words were exchanged between the man in the video and the store owner, they were not considered very serious, as the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store.​

I don't know that we've seen the full video, but there is definitely footage of the store clerk running to block brown from leaving, AND brown using his physical presence to grab, push and intimidate the much smaller clerk. Your choice of words such as "discussion" and "shove" are intentionally harmless, but not sure the clerk who was there feels the same. The footage scared the s*** out of me!

And, don't know about you, but I would guess a lot of these incidents go unreported for fear of reprisal. These small store owners have to make a living in these communities, and sadly probably have to deal with this more often than we know.

Reports are he the store clerk did not want to get involved. I wonder why.
 
D

deleted15807

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can anyone explain to me how this case got racially charged? other than the fact that blacks have pulled the card on this one. Any proof of him being racially targeted? Because regardless of being black-
=he was a huge man,
=robbery suspect
=uncooperative and combative with the police officer.
Color has nothing to do with it. If he was white and that abrasive with police he would be dead as well. I believe in being rational nor have i picked a side for this case. Just going off what what we know. (him being a teen, going to college soon is nice, but has nothing to do with this case)

'Proof of being racially targeted? Oh we already know race is a defining factor in how 'justice is administered in this country'. There is no disputing that. So no 'blacks have not pulled the card on this one'. There is an obvious desire to frame this as an isolated incident but it is far from isolated.


The killing in Ferguson was one of many such cases. Here's what the data reveals.
Racial Disparities in Incarceration Increase Acceptance of Punitive Policies


Eric 8, with diarrhea of the mouth and keyboard, has made this thread counter-productive to any thoughtful, intelligent discussion. I think, by responding to everything and anything, he might be a mental case using this forum for psychotherapy. I am moving on. I suggest everyone else with a brain click the ignore button and do the same.

And I don't think the 'therapy' is working. If anything I think it exacerbates the syndrome. An almost parallel occurrence happened in the Trayvon Martin thread.
 
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Jjz1109

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Somebody give Craig a towel to wipe the egg off his face with.

In a similar vein, here's some more news about that "strong-arm robbery":

– Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Victim Blows Up In Their Face (VIDEO)

When the Ferguson police department released the name of Darren Wilson, they also chose to release video footage which they claimed was of Michael Brown robbing a convenience store for some cigars.

The problem is, the video shows Michael Brown at the register, paying for the cigars.

From observation, it looks as if he had tried to buy more, but then was unable to afford it, hence why he left several packets on the counter. This prompted the store owner to come out from behind the counter and have a discussion with him, which prompted the shove witnessed in the full video.

Whatever words were exchanged between the man in the video and the store owner, they were not considered very serious, as the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store.​

"This prompted the store owner to come out from behind the counter and have a discussion with him, which prompted the shove witnessed in the full video."

Yep, blame the victim! Lol.

Next we will hear the store owner has parking tickets, and kicks his dog!
 

b.c.

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I get that it's not just black people protesting. But the "this" to which I am referring are the tragedies of black men dying during police altercations. A legitimate question about attitude, motivation, pride, respect, whatever when confronting police. . . .

These tragedies are not happening in middle class black neighborhoods.

You are completely incorrect. Perhaps you should do some research.


Next, ARE YOU SERIOUS???? Because you don't have the names or links to the "dozens of eyewitnesses" you are not satisfied? The prudent thing to do (which is absolutely non existent in this whole tragedy) is to investigate, gather the information, protect the identity of witnesses before any possible trial, and go from there. And you want a press conference from Wilson??? The man is probably in hiding for fear of his life! This whole thing has been a clusterf**k of heightened emotions with media, protesters, sharpton, you name it posturing without any clear cut facts. But EVERYONE has an opinion. Think we all need to wait for all the details to be gathered, verified, and shared. And it's going to take time (why are we only hearing of them now - yep, cause it's all made up. Get your conspiracy on!)

What I'm "serious" about is my right to reserve judgment on those alleged "dozens of witnesses" without hearing anything specific from either them or the officer involved, especially when those "dozens of witnesses" are only being referenced by some of the same kind of "sources" that would stoop to publishing such inaccuracies as that most recently revealed above.
 
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rbkwp

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craigsmith

In addition to this he had an extensive juvenile record, which, by law, remains sealed


i would be inclined to be thinking

on another possible side of it all would there be by chance

be something similar, where the officer has a uhhhmm unsatisfactory police record, that the public will never be privy to see
ie
wonder, if/how many altercations the man may have had with other members of the public .. will all count in a court of law, if released huh!

Investigative reporters where are you, because he is an officer of the law does NOT mean he is totally pure huh?