Rioting in St. Louis

[NC_BBC]

I see it quite clearly.What you're saying is that if the benefit of the doubt is only given to the living then what's to stop them in the future? If cops are allowed to shoot and then excused because their intent was in question why is the intent of the deceased considered certain? Isn't there room for doubt?

Precisely!!

 

[StormfrontFL]

Precisely!!

You and I, as well as others, may see it but will everyone? I can be sure that there are those(many of whom we've seen right here)who believe the cops can do no wrong. They refuse to see the possibilities because they haven't been affected...yet.

 

[NC_BBC]

You and I, as well as others, may see it but will everyone? I can be sure that there are those(many of whom we've seen right here)who believe the cops can do no wrong. They refuse to see the possibilities because they haven't been affected...yet.

Yeah, it's still very black and white so far; with black being on the losing end. As long as it stays that way, they're all fine. But judging by some other incidents I've seen; that comfort won't last forever like they hope.

 

[Eric_8]

I think you're failing to see the precedent that's being set here. Either you don't see it, you see and don't care, or you see it and like it.

Essentially, what this will show is that any officer can kill a young black man and get away with it if he or his department can smudge the evidence and investigation enough to give himself some "doubt"... I wonder if that could possible snowball into a nationwide problem....hmmmm

Orrrrrrrr if some semblance of legitimate and reasonable doubt (remember, that's all ya need) exists. To pretend like none does is ignorance of the willful variety you touched on above.

As I've said, this matter is not conceivably going to alter my life in any way, so to some here that disqualifies me from discussing it, but my detachment doesn't change the undeniable reality of the matter.

 

[Eric_8]

I see it quite clearly.What you're saying is that if the benefit of the doubt is only given to the living then what's to stop them in the future? If cops are allowed to shoot and then excused because their intent was in question why is the intent of the deceased considered certain? Isn't there room for doubt?

And despite this meeting of the Mensa minds, you both clearly choose to disregard the icky constraints of the legal system...as I mentioned above.

Either do something to change the laws, or stop demonizing folks who disagree with you by accurately reading the tea leaves.

 

[Popyuu]

And despite this meeting of the Mensa minds, you both clearly choose to disregard the icky constraints of the legal system...as I mentioned above.

Either do something to change the laws, or stop demonizing folks who disagree with you by accurately reading the tea leaves.

And how exactly would someone change the laws? How exactly would someone go about addressing a law they saw to be unfair in the first place. Let me make it that much more precise. How would the black community begin to change said laws? Would they first have to speak up? Would they have to bring attention to something they thought unfair? If so what would happen if they did? What would happen when they expressed their opinion, facts, general common sense and personal experiences?

Would someone try to silence them? Would someone try to label them in some way as to put a large blanket over what they were saying? Would people try to divert the conversation away from the topics at hand? Would they try to distract people from the subject at hand? Would they try to reverse the situation and make those bringing up issues of race somehow the perpetrators of everything unholy? Would they try to paint them as emotional or thuggish or like a mob in some way? Would someone try to paint them as jelly in some way?

So i ask once more. How are you not part of the problem?

 

[deleted213967]

And despite this meeting of the Mensa minds, you both clearly choose to disregard the icky constraints of the legal system...as I mentioned above.

Either do something to change the laws, or stop demonizing folks who disagree with you by accurately reading the tea leaves.

Are you suggesting we lower the evidentiary standards for cases involving lethal use of force by white police officers against black citizens, in order to increase the probability of achieving conviction?

 

[Eric_8]

Are you suggesting we lower the evidentiary standards for cases involving lethal use of force by white police officers against black citizens, in order to increase the probability of achieving conviction?

I'm not suggesting/advocating this, BUT it doesn't seem like there are all that many viable alternatives to achieve (again, within the bounds of legality) the endgame that many here seen to desire.

 

[Eric_8]

And how exactly would someone change the laws? How exactly would someone go about addressing a law they saw to be unfair in the first place. Let me make it that much more precise. How would the black community begin to change said laws? Would they first have to speak up? Would they have to bring attention to something they thought unfair? If so what would happen if they did? What would happen when they expressed their opinion, facts, general common sense and personal experiences?

Would someone try to silence them? Would someone try to label them in some way as to put a large blanket over what they were saying? Would people try to divert the conversation away from the topics at hand? Would they try to distract people from the subject at hand? Would they try to reverse the situation and make those bringing up issues of race somehow the perpetrators of everything unholy? Would they try to paint them as emotional or thuggish or like a mob in some way? Would someone try to paint them as jelly in some way?

So i ask once more. How are you not part of the problem?

Lol same song and dance broheim...you'll have to find another partner to boogie with.

IF you were remotely honest in these discussions, you would know the absurdity of your post, and that no reasonable person ought to respect it.

You equate (and have done so quite frequently) anything less than blaming any and all plight on 100% systemic racism as ignorance of the most severe form. I do not share your beliefs to the T, so you've chosen to label me as you have...more power to you man. Everyone tells me that perception is reality, even if you must confine reason and objectivity to the 9th hate of hell in order to perceive properly...cheers.

 

[deleted213967]

I'm not suggesting/advocating this, BUT it doesn't seem like there are all that many viable alternatives to achieve (again, within the bounds of legality) the endgame that many here seen to desire.

Achieving justice and ignoring the evidence are mutually exclusive.

Judging from the evidence made available to date to us, the LPSG Political Forum, we could still reasonably entertain that the officer might have been guilty of gross negligence...

Now assume that you are a member of the grand jury and are beyond a reasonable doubt convinced that the officer was guilty of gross negligence, but the mob and its representatives before the court are asking you to consider whether he was guilty of cold-blooded hate-motivated murder instead.

Aren't your hands tied?

 

[NC_BBC]

Orrrrrrrr if some semblance of legitimate and reasonable doubt (remember, that's all ya need) exists. To pretend like none does is ignorance of the willful variety you touched on above.

As I've said, this matter is not conceivably going to alter my life in any way, so to some here that disqualifies me from discussing it, but my detachment doesn't change the undeniable reality of the matter.

I agreed that there is doubt in the case on BOTH sides. Where the doubt comes from, doesn't matter at this point...I guess. But what DOES matter is the precedent this case will set. Essentially, "dead men tell no tales".... Which isn't necessarily the motto I want law enforcement agents walking living by. People like me will either have to retaliate to protect themselves, or become sitting targets; which I know some of the people here are totally fine with.

So when you see a bunch of people losing their shit over something you're detached from on ALL levels....why the fuck weigh in on it? Just to have something to do?

 

[Eric_8]

I agreed that there is doubt in the case on BOTH sides. Where the doubt comes from, doesn't matter at this point...I guess. But what DOES matter is the precedent this case will set. Essentially, "dead men tell no tales".... Which isn't necessarily the motto I want law enforcement agents walking living by. People like me will either have to retaliate to protect themselves, or become sitting targets; which I know some of the people here are totally fine with.

So when you see a bunch of people losing their shit over something you're detached from on ALL levels....why the fuck weigh in on it? Just to have something to do?

This brings me back to the initial question, which has yet to be answered, or even really attempted as of now.

There is reasonable doubt on both sides, as you yourself admit. This would seem to exonerate Wilson, which, in my mind, would render a trial unnecessary and a conviction entirely unjust.

Would trying and potentially convicting an (by your words, legally speaking) innocent man create any more atrocious a precedent?

I enjoy the discussion, and mostly, being the rowboat sized voice of reason in the sea of irrational thought.

 

[Popyuu]

I agreed that there is doubt in the case on BOTH sides. Where the doubt comes from, doesn't matter at this point...I guess. But what DOES matter is the precedent this case will set. Essentially, "dead men tell no tales".... Which isn't necessarily the motto I want law enforcement agents walking living by. People like me will either have to retaliate to protect themselves, or become sitting targets; which I know some of the people here are totally fine with.

So when you see a bunch of people losing their shit over something you're detached from on ALL levels....why the fuck weigh in on it? Just to have something to do?

His purpose. As far as i can see is already known.

 

[b.c.]

The bigger picture is being ignored. The shocking rate of young, unarmed black men being killed by police officers is being overshadowed by details and technicalities. People started protesting for a reason.

That's the whole idea, Fuzzy, to ignore the bigger picture by way of fuzzy logic and bogus rationale, just as they did with Trayvon Martin.

There's an interesting video produced by Slate.com (can be found on their site or on Youtube), called "America's Year of Police Violence". It documents numerous similar incidents, many of which resulted in little to NO followup or investigative action on the part of "law enforcement" or other entities.

But still there are those here who by bogus "rationale" insist on defending disparities in the treatment of black men by police.

Case in point, today's reported capture of cop killer Eric Frein, who, apparently was NOT shot to death when he threw his hands up.

Maybe they shot him in the back when he turned to get his id. No, they didn't. Maybe they busted out a car window and tased him when he refused to get out... maybe they threw him to the ground and choked him to death...hmmm....no. Maybe they threw him face down and started beating the hell out of him... maybe they handcuffed him then kicked him in the face as he sat on the ground.

I guess they'll be "leaking" the details.

 

[Fuzzy_]

There's an interesting video produced by Slate.com (can be found on their site or on Youtube), called "America's Year of Police Violence". It documents numerous similar incidents, many of which resulted in little to NO followup or investigative action on the part of "law enforcement" or other entities.

But still there are those here who by bogus "rationale" insist on defending disparities in the treatment of black men by police.

Wait... you mean that a white person wouldn't get shot at 46 times?

Footage shows homeless black man Milton Hall being shot at 46 times by police

 

[StormfrontFL]

And how exactly would someone change the laws? How exactly would someone go about addressing a law they saw to be unfair in the first place. Let me make it that much more precise. How would the black community begin to change said laws? Would they first have to speak up? Would they have to bring attention to something they thought unfair? If so what would happen if they did? What would happen when they expressed their opinion, facts, general common sense and personal experiences?

Would someone try to silence them? Would someone try to label them in some way as to put a large blanket over what they were saying? Would people try to divert the conversation away from the topics at hand? Would they try to distract people from the subject at hand? Would they try to reverse the situation and make those bringing up issues of race somehow the perpetrators of everything unholy? Would they try to paint them as emotional or thuggish or like a mob in some way? Would someone try to paint them as jelly in some way?

So i ask once more. How are you not part of the problem?

Some feel that if nothing's gonna change then everyone should just remain silent and complacent. Some feel that every thing is black or white. Some feel that by playing "impartial" observer they are justified in telling others that they are playing a card.
It's not enough to say that doubt exists on both sides but only applies to one. No one is asking for Wilson's crucifixion. What is being asked is should there be some downside to his actions? What is being asked is why allow him the benefit of the doubt when Brown is afforded no such opportunity? If beyond all shadow of doubt we don't know the intent of Wilson when he shot Brown then why allow that Brown was guilty of all he has been accused of? If doubt exists for one then it exists for all. Will he think before pulling his weapon next time or will he have a sense that TPTB will look the other way? As for the small minds who paint this as black/white we ask would you be okay with cops shooting anyone and walking free and clear because they claimed a clean shoot? Are cops held to a different standard? Are they somehow perfect once they put on the uniform?

 

[Eric_8]

Some feel that if nothing's gonna change then everyone should just remain silent and complacent. Some feel that every thing is black or white. Some feel that by playing "impartial" observer they are justified in telling others that they are playing a card.
It's not enough to say that doubt exists on both sides but only applies to one. No one is asking for Wilson's crucifixion. What is being asked is should there be some downside to his actions? What is being asked is why allow him the benefit of the doubt when Brown is afforded no such opportunity? If beyond all shadow of doubt we don't know the intent of Wilson when he shot Brown then why allow that Brown was guilty of all he has been accused of? If doubt exists for one then it exists for all. Will he think before pulling his weapon next time or will he have a sense that TPTB will look the other way? As for the small minds who paint this as black/white we ask would you be okay with cops shooting anyone and walking free and clear because they claimed a clean shoot? Are cops held to a different standard? Are they somehow perfect once they put on the uniform?

All these questions have been answered, and i can only hope the sheer ignorance displayed by continuing to ask these long since answered questions is a result of your opting to ignore those with whom you disagree.

One that has yet to be answered: cops are not held to the same standard as you and I. The severity of this can certainly be discussed, but the fact that a disparity exists cannot.

Note: nobody is asking for Wilson's crucifixion? Clearly the words of a fool.

 

[NC_BBC]

And how exactly would someone change the laws? How exactly would someone go about addressing a law they saw to be unfair in the first place. Let me make it that much more precise. How would the black community begin to change said laws? Would they first have to speak up? Would they have to bring attention to something they thought unfair? If so what would happen if they did? What would happen when they expressed their opinion, facts, general common sense and personal experiences?

Would someone try to silence them? Would someone try to label them in some way as to put a large blanket over what they were saying? Would people try to divert the conversation away from the topics at hand? Would they try to distract people from the subject at hand? Would they try to reverse the situation and make those bringing up issues of race somehow the perpetrators of everything unholy? Would they try to paint them as emotional or thuggish or like a mob in some way? Would someone try to paint them as jelly in some way?

So i ask once more. How are you not part of the problem?

Very nicely worded...

 

[NC_BBC]

Note: nobody is asking for Wilson's crucifixion? Clearly the words of a fool.

What exactly is foolish about that? You'd really like to believe that there are NO rational minds observing this case in favor of Michael Brown, wouldn't you? For you, anyone that feels that Willson or his Police Department should face SOME sort of repercussions for the way this case has been mishandled....suffers from some sort of mental deficiency.... which is why people here don't take your claims of being unbiased serious...

 

[StormfrontFL]

What exactly is foolish about that? You'd really like to believe that there are NO rational minds observing this case in favor of Michael Brown, wouldn't you? For you, anyone that feels that Willson or his Police Department should face SOME sort of repercussions for the way this case has been mishandled....suffers from some sort of mental deficiency.... which is why people here don't take your claims of being unbiased serious...

That's the part he isn't smart enough to understand. Because it doesn't and hasn't affected him he feels that others should just take it even if it is wrong.

Funny how his supposed lack of bias somehow is always in keeping the status quo and no amount of using black idioms or quoting rap lyrics changes one thing about him or his intentions.