Ron Paul

[Big_Red]

However, having read portions of his manifesto, I think, like many libertarians, his vision of the libertarian state is flawed and unworkable.

As with any ideology, some of it is too ideological. Rand Paul, his son, is more guilty of this than anyone else. I think some die-hard libertarians- the real ones- get sucked into too much ideology, which weakens their case for true reform, such as the "End the Fed" campaign. That's the first thing which must be done. Everything else will follow- especially wars waged to expand the empire.

It's like a really overweight, unhealthy person being told day in and day out that they'll suffer a heart attack and die, unless they completely change their lifestyle. The transition in lifestyle is extremely difficult, time consuming, costly and takes much effort and discipline to follow. But the reward is greatly improved health and well being. Following the former will eventually lead to horror and eventually death. Following the latter involves enduring painful changes, but these changes will lead to greatly improved health and quality of life.

 

[blazblue]

I think that most people who clamor for smaller government are in favor of doing away with governmental restrictions and control they find "intrusive", and eliminating "wasteful spending" on programs, services, and/or infrastructure that they don't think (or aren't aware) they directly or indirectly benefit from, the hell with everybody else. Then when their situation changes and/or they do want/need something from government, or government fails to protect them or their interests, they quickly change their tune. They're the first to scream that "government's not doing its job". It's an a la carte mentality, "I'm all for the elimination of government and bureaucracy, so long as what's left is there to serve me and my self-interest".

Yes, I, like you, question how many would be happy with the full effect of smaller government.
I don't wonder what the answer is.

x2

 

[Bbucko]

Not true, there are many, like myself, who would make the deepest cuts in the whole defense-intelligence-international military bases/training schools system and reform, but leave intact, social programs. As I mentioned in a previous post, providing core services, particularly those related to quality of life and human capital investment, are extremely important to the stability and success of a society.

But, that's my view as a proponent of smaller government, not beliefs I ascribe to Ron Paul.

Your glorious exceptionalism is only one of many reasons why I hold you so close to my heart. And though I completely understand your abhorrence of labels and all-encompassing philosophies, you really must admit that the majority of Libertarians are just re-digested Social Darwinists.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

As with any ideology, some of it is too ideological. Rand Paul, his son, is more guilty of this than anyone else. I think some die-hard libertarians- the real ones- get sucked into too much ideology, which weakens their case for true reform, such as the "End the Fed" campaign. That's the first thing which must be done. Everything else will follow- especially wars waged to expand the empire.

It's like a really overweight, unhealthy person being told day in and day out that they'll suffer a heart attack and die, unless they completely change their lifestyle. The transition in lifestyle is extremely difficult, time consuming, costly and takes much effort and discipline to follow. But the reward is greatly improved health and well being. Following the former will eventually lead to horror and eventually death. Following the latter involves enduring painful changes, but these changes will lead to greatly improved health and quality of life.

Yep, which is why I made the distinction between those who may propose reforms that are libertarian (or otherwise non-mainstream) in nature, but have a broader interpretation of what makes a society function and progress, and ideologues who hold a very narrow inflexible view.

Speaking of empire. I first heard of Paul in 2003 or 2004 when a neocon went IN (viciously attacked) on Paul's statements on empire' and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The fact he was so pissed made me want to read Paul's work and get an idea of his philosophy, so that's where I found my primary connection (colonialism) with his views.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

Your glorious exceptionalism is only one of many reasons why I hold you so close to my heart. And though I completely understand your abhorrence of labels and all-encompassing philosophies, you really must admit that the majority of Libertarians are just re-digested Social Darwinists.

Absolutely, I think a good portion, if not majority, of libertarians, particularly the vocal set, have made clear they have a 'make it on your own merits or fuck you and die" attitude. Which is actually a fairly common sentiment in the U.S. - we didn't even have a noteworthy welfare state until just before WW II and it was desperately needed. Since then, probably the day after, people have been critical of this seeming leg up for the, to their minds, undeserving needy.

Fuck them, btw.

What I argue, is there exists another group who would apply some libertarian ideals to the modern system--slimming it down--but done so with respect to social and political needs. As much as I can be, I think I am part of that group - particularly when discussing the intelligence and defense industries... I mean bureaus.

 

[deleted15807]

Hmmm . . . we could start by eliminating Head Start and putting preschoolers in work camps where their efforts would be used to pay for their early socialization and pre ed. Just imagine! Similar work programs could be extended to primary, intermediate, and high school, thus eliminating the burden of society to pay for public education? Oh boy! I can hardly wait!

:rofl: You've got a very good workable blueprint here.

 

[Big_Red]

Speaking of empire. I first heard of Paul in 2003 or 2004 when a neocon went IN (viciously attacked) on Paul's statements on empire' and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And was that work by Paul's entitled, "We've Been Neo-Conned"? :smile:

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

And was that work by Paul's entitled, "We've Been Neo-Conned"? :smile:

Actually, I think it was! :smile: +points!

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Ron Paul is a hyprocritical, short-sighted, possibly racist moron who is generally supported by people who either don't know enough about him, or have terribly ideological political views.

He occasionally says something sensible about foreign policy or something else, stopped clock and all that.


That about covers it.

 

[maxcok]

Ron Paul is a hyprocritical, short-sighted, possibly racist moron . . . .

Not possibly, he is - a racist that is, but not a moron. Not to mention, he's also homophobic and anti-semitic. He's a "paleolibertarian" conservative cut from cloth of the John Birchers, closely associated with Lew Rockwell, president of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, purportedly the ghostwriter for many of Dr. Paul's more incendiary writings. He's heaped praise on the 'Patriot' militia movements so visible in the 1990's, now growing in numbers lurking in the shadows, nurseries for 'patriots' the likes of Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols. He's an evangelical Christian who has expressed views rather at odds with the usual libertarian position on the separation of church and state. He was the keynote speaker at the 50th anniversary of the John Birch Society, saying:

"The John Birch Society is a great patriotic organization featuring an educational program solidly based on constitutional principles. I congratulate the Society in this, its 50th year. I wish them continued success and endorse their untiring efforts to foster less government, more responsibility … and with God’s help … a better world."
​

In short, he's a Bircher. Anyone who isn't familiar with the JBS or doesn't know their ignominious history should do a little studying. BTW, they're still very much around, but with a much less visible presence, supporting the likes of Rand and Ron Paul, and within the ranks of the Teaparty for examples. Of course unwitting Paulite cultists will dismiss all this, because in addition to everything else, Ron's a slick politician. He knows how to look clean, sound reasonable, and sell himself to a lot of disgruntled people. He cloaks his real message and his true agenda under the cover rhetoric of "state's rights", "libertarianism", and "individual freedom", while tacitly serving as a galvanizing force for bigotry and political extremism.

Who Wrote Ron Paul's Newsletters? - Reason Magazine​

OPINION: Ron Paul Is A White Supremacist | News One​

Authoritarian or Libertarian? Ron Paul on Church/State Separation ​

Ron Paul's Libertarian Newsletters Revealed to Contain Racist, Anti-Semitic and Homophobic Rants

​

 

[D_Reuben Stallpisser]

Absolutely, I think a good portion, if not majority, of libertarians, particularly the vocal set, have made clear they have a 'make it on your own merits or fuck you and die" attitude.

From my observations, the majority of liberations are also against all laws that restrict their actions, but for those that restrict other people's actions. Most are also total fucking nuts.

 

[deleted15807]

Most are also total fucking nuts.

Exactly. Press them on any issue and the risk/consequences of their policies. Ron Paul wants the end of regulations and the end of the Fed. In other words we would be in the Great Depression Parte Deux right now.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

From my observations, the majority of liberations are also against all laws that restrict their actions, but for those that restrict other people's actions. Most are also total fucking nuts.

:shrug: Possibly, however, as with most ideologies there exists a spectrum in libertarianism, not just the extreme, and a range of perspectives on application of the principles.

 

[MalakingTiti]

Ron Paul is the Dr. Kevorkian of politics. I remember when I first heard of Dr. Kevorkian. I figured "...the right to die with dignity. Ok. Right on. Who could be opposed to that?" And then he started advocating suicide for damn near anyone walking down the street if they so choose, AND he's not above helping. (Screeeeech! Put on the brakes.) What???!!! What the FUCK? Hold it a second there Kev. I was with ya, but I can't behind that shit.

Ron Paul is the same way. He advances notions that you think you're with and then before you know it he's over shot the target and gone way too far.

 

[COMountainGuy]

Is it realistic to ask a libertarian to say something like: "I'm a libertarian but with these 114 exceptions"?

Libertarianism is an ideology. I don't think it really has to mean that the idealogue is opposed to all rules and regulations.

If your hand is in the government cookie jar....as is a very large percentage....then your "thoughts" on libertarianism are clearly self-serving. As in...members of the Communist Party probably need not reply when asked what their thoughts might be on capitalism.

 

[MoneyForNothing]

Not possibly, he is - a racist that is, but not a moron. Not to mention, he's also homophobic and anti-semitic. He's a "paleolibertarian" conservative cut from cloth of the John Birchers, closely associated with Lew Rockwell, president of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, purportedly the ghostwriter for many of Dr. Paul's more incendiary writings.

That is just a clever ruse. Mises and the LvM Institute co-founder, Murray Rothbard, were jews. He has been pretending to be a student of jews for his entire political career to cover up his secret plot to bring back the ovens and bake a jew pie for every dinner table.

 

[COMountainGuy]

That is just a clever ruse. Mises and the LvM Institute co-founder, Murray Rothbard, were jews. He has been pretending to be a student of jews for his entire political career to cover up his secret plot to bring back the ovens and bake a jew pie for every dinner table.

WOW!!!

And you know of his "secret plot" how?

I follow the Paul's somewhat closely and had no idea that he "pretends to be a student of Jews".

How do you know so much? College roomies? Or gossip reader?

 

[COMountainGuy]

Not possibly, he is - a racist that is, but not a moron. Not to mention, he's also homophobic and anti-semitic. He's a "paleolibertarian" conservative cut from cloth of the John Birchers, closely associated with Lew Rockwell, president of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, purportedly the ghostwriter for many of Dr. Paul's more incendiary writings. He's heaped praise on the 'Patriot' militia movements so visible in the 1990's, now growing in numbers lurking in the shadows, nurseries for 'patriots' the likes of Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols. He's an evangelical Christian who has expressed views rather at odds with the usual libertarian position on the separation of church and state. He was the keynote speaker at the 50th anniversary of the John Birch Society, saying:

"The John Birch Society is a great patriotic organization featuring an educational program solidly based on constitutional principles. I congratulate the Society in this, its 50th year. I wish them continued success and endorse their untiring efforts to foster less government, more responsibility … and with God’s help … a better world."
​

In short, he's a Bircher. Anyone who isn't familiar with the JBS or doesn't know their ignominious history should do a little studying. BTW, they're still very much around, but with a much less visible presence, supporting the likes of Rand and Ron Paul, and within the ranks of the Teaparty for examples. Of course unwitting Paulite cultists will dismiss all this, because in addition to everything else, Ron's a slick politician. He knows how to look clean, sound reasonable, and sell himself to a lot of disgruntled people. He cloaks his real message and his true agenda under the cover rhetoric of "state's rights", "libertarianism", and "individual freedom", while tacitly serving as a galvanizing force for bigotry and political extremism.

Who Wrote Ron Paul's Newsletters? - Reason Magazine​

OPINION: Ron Paul Is A White Supremacist | News One​

Authoritarian or Libertarian? Ron Paul on Church/State Separation ​

Ron Paul's Libertarian Newsletters Revealed to Contain Racist, Anti-Semitic and Homophobic Rants

​

I minored in political science and I just have to know what a paleolibertarian conservative is. I'm suspecting that paleo blah blah blah must be a lot like neo blah blah blah.

 

[maxcok]

I minored in political science and I just have to know what a paleolibertarian conservative is. I'm suspecting that paleo blah blah blah must be a lot like neo blah blah blah.

You might try reading some of the linked material I generously provided to get a quick definition. If you're still in the dark, and since you minored in PoliSci, maybe you could even manage a little research on your own.
I'm not your professor.

I'm assuming from your comment you don't recognize "neo conservative" as a legitimate term either.

 

[MoneyForNothing]

How do you know so much?

I read blogs and look at cock pics all day on the internet.